RA Celestiales Fino STA JUN 09

[greenpimp]

Entertaining review as always.

I agree with you Bob. This shows promise to me, a cigar should not be ready to smoke 2 months from box date. The first Cazadore I ever smoked was only a year old and it blew my head off. Nice to have a release with some balls to age for awhile.

[Tampa1257]

I am going to have to get a box and a few singles because I can and will lay a box down for 5+ years. They sound like they have what it takes to age well in my opinion.

As for the nicotine, I remember Cazadores from the late 90's, those were knock your socks off and slap you silly, age them 5-7 years, great flavors and still full bodied.

[Guibou]

I can't wait to try on of these!

Probably same experience with the Cohiba Pyr'06 or the Maduro Magicos at time of release.

The Magicos really kicked my butt and I haven't try another since then.

Maybe should try since the recent experience with the Pyr'06 was good !

Rob, would you mind to put away a box for me?

I'll come pick it up myself on September 45th to enter the draw ....

[Mr. Japan]

I want one of these now LOL

[BobLobLaw]

Looks like this is a box I should have left in my OHS to make sure I keep my hands off em! I am looking forward to hearing others takes on these as they start to arrive stateside.

[kcmontie]

Im thankful to habonos for pricing a RR so reasonably even if the tobacco need some time to age.

[asmith]

While I understand what Smithy means when he says no one particular flavor stands out from any other, from the sound of it, I can't imagine calling

such a cigar balanced in any way.

I fully realize it's a very young cigar, but I must say I'll need a little more convincing.

Colt I can see what you mean, perhaps if I use another cigar to describe the difference it might be clearer.

While the RACF was powerful, its flavour, smoke, burn, where all constant and balanced. Not balanced in the sense of that one delicate flavour was balanced with another, more that its consistenices were balanced, (consistently powerful).

I think back to the Punch Super Robusto RR from about 06 that was unbalanced as a cigar, first draw was coffee, second was fruit, third was nothing, fourth was coffee, fifth through to tenth nothing then dried fruit and it continued the length of the cigar. It was all over the place in flavour and at the time we felt unbalanced. We reviewed the cigar again a year later and still the same thing.

Thats what I was trying to say on the balanced front, it just my opinion.

[jquest63]

Sister Nicotine! Sounds like a whopper! Any ammonia odor emanating from the box? I had a Nicaraguan cigar over the weekend that made me take pause, if I weren't already seated I would have fell down. It was called Cacique.

[Colt45]

Colt I can see what you mean, perhaps if I use another cigar to describe the difference it might be clearer.

While the RACF was powerful, its flavour, smoke, burn, where all constant and balanced. Not balanced in the sense of that one delicate flavour was balanced with another, more that its consistenices were balanced, (consistently powerful).

Thats what I was trying to say on the balanced front, it just my opinion.

I think we're pretty much in tune, Smithy. It's probably just not a term I'd personally use in this kind of scenario.

Like I'd probably not drive on the left side of the road.....

[El Presidente]

Sister Nicotine! Sounds like a whopper! Any ammonia odor emanating from the box? I had a Nicaraguan cigar over the weekend that made me take pause, if I weren't already seated I would have fell down. It was called Cacique.

...not an inkling of amonia. That is what confused me somewhat.

[smll2]

I visited my local B&M today and picked up a couple of celestials. Just finished one. I'm very green relative to CC's and still learning. Definitely not an afficionado. The review was right on. Smoking this cigar today was not a pleasant. Very strong...spicy...nicotine city. What I did notice were slight flavors consistent with the many RA's I've smoked in the past. These slight flavors...tried to work themselves into the smoke...but they just couldn't do it. They didn't start or finish...but they tried in my opinion.

Smoking one of these after the review was an education for me. Really the first green CC I've smoked with the knowledge that they weren't ready.

As I don't have any experience relative to this event.....I trust that Rob and Smithy's opinion...put em in the back of the humi for a long rest. No problem with that...but it is a little disappointing still that they are unsmokeable at this time. I suspect I've been spoiled with all the great smokes from 2008.

Tom

[Sandman]

wow, this just reinforces the need to pick up more 07 Estupendos. I love all the excuses on this thread. Why is it all of sudden OK to have a cigar that is going to need years to come around? Not trying to be an ass, just wonder why all of a sudden this is OK, after the past few years of very approachable ciagrs????

[jquest63]

...not an inkling of amonia. That is what confused me somewhat.

Would be interesting to do an autopsy on it. Could this be due to a very high ligero content, insufficient fermentation or aging? At any rate, although some folks enjoy it, I find exceedingly high nicotine content unpleasant.

[smll2]

wow, this just reinforces the need to pick up more 07 Estupendos. I love all the excuses on this thread. Why is it all of sudden OK to have a cigar that is going to need years to come around? Not trying to be an ass, just wonder why all of a sudden this is OK, after the past few years of very approachable ciagrs????

Any chance they priced them cheap....relative to other RE's knowing they weren't very good? Just a thought.

I enjoy my BBF's better than the new petite Bolivar. Of the three the Mag 48 is the most impressive out of the box for me. Smoked a couple. Don't have a box.

[Cubatabaco]

"Right now this thing is a bastard"!

Rob, that had me in tears. I think I will hold off on cracking my box, once I get them in. Thanks for the review!

[El Presidente]

wow, this just reinforces the need to pick up more 07 Estupendos. I love all the excuses on this thread. Why is it all of sudden OK to have a cigar that is going to need years to come around? Not trying to be an ass, just wonder why all of a sudden this is OK, after the past few years of very approachable ciagrs????

What excuses? We called it as we saw it?

I can only reference back to what I have had before. I haven't had a fresh cigar like this since the early to mid 90's where a 3 month old cigar was in the main untouchable and untouchable for several years. Many if not the majority of those went onto becoming very very good/great cigars.

I hope we were clear in the review. If you are looking for a post 06 cigar with post 06 characteristics to enjoy now ...DON'T BUY IT!!!

I have no doubt the blend was intentional. Keep in mind it is not a mass market HSA production. It is a blend approved by PCC (David Tang I suspect) so keep in mind the Tang Monarch etal which also took years to find their feet.

Will it become a great cigar? I have no idea but I am punting that it has every opportunity to do so . Why? Because it shows underhanded power and spice but not the normal characteristics of youth (ammonia).

We will resample in 6 months and again a year and follow its progression.

The Regional Release Program is designed to push the envelope. Distributors have the opportunity to have a play and to back it with their own money. If they want a lay down cigar then let them do it. No one is under compulsion to purchase. The distributors set the price and take the risk. For every one person who wants a smoke good now cigar there will be one who is prepared for a little magic/X Factor to evolve wth time. The last thing we need is a RASS in a Celestiales Finos. We already have a RASS!

As a Habanos Lover what I want is diversity, what I want is a little controversy, what I want is a point of difference. To me a question mark on a cigar that has substance is not a negative but an intriguing journey of discovery. I will not stop enjoying my 08 Mag 46 or BBF or HDM Epi .....but in the back of my mind I will be wondering what the hell those mongrel RACF are doing

[Colt45]

I have no doubt the blend was intentional. Keep in mind it is not a mass market HSA production. It is a blend approved by PCC (David Tang I suspect) so keep in mind the Tang Monarch etal which also took years to find their feet.

No doubt a cigar with just under three months in the box probably should not be compared to cigars that probably had more box age upon release.

But I do have some thoughts as to this aspect of the blend which I hope I can properly articulate. In my mind, I wonder if such an initially strong

blend will allow any underlying flavors to eventually shine through, or will they forever be overshadowed, or will they perish before the overt strength

and spice have a chance to moderate and integrate.

And what might these underlying flavors be - will they be representative of the marque, do they need to be representative at all. Are these cigars

good grapes that will have seen too much new oak or will that oak integrate and harmonize. The intensity might "blow off" in a few months giving

a clearer picture of what they'll be with time. I'm surely interested to see.

[El Presidente]

No doubt a cigar with just under three months in the box probably should not be compared to cigars that probably had more box age upon release.

But I do have some thoughts as to this aspect of the blend which I hope I can properly articulate. In my mind, I wonder if such an initially strong

blend will allow any underlying flavors to eventually shine through, or will they forever be overshadowed, or will they perish before the overt strength

and spice have a chance to moderate and integrate.

And what might these underlying flavors be - will they be representative of the marque, do they need to be representative at all. Are these cigars

good grapes that will have seen too much new oak or will that oak integrate and harmonize. The intensity might "blow off" in a few months giving

a clearer picture of what they'll be with time. I'm surely interested to see.

And that is the beauty Colt.

I couldn't touch the R&J Celestiales Finos from 1994/5 until 2000. Magnificent. We don't know what will eventuate from the RACF but we know it is quality leaf. Time will tell but I am prepared to wait if for no other reason than it has been a long time since a cigar has reminded me of the mid 90's.

[Colt45]

We don't know what will eventuate from the RACF but we know it is quality leaf. Time will tell but I am prepared to wait if for no other reason than it has been a long time since a cigar has reminded me of the mid 90's.

So let me ask you and the membership this: Let's say that in 2015 or so, the general consensus is that these are good / very good cigars.

Would it bother anyone if they were unlike any other Ramon Allones cigar ever produced - not really representative of what we might feel

the marque to be? Or might we celebrate that difference.

If Ramon Allones was a privately owned, stand alone company would we be more apt to accept that each size within the portfolio had it's own

distinct profile? I know that some or all of this might sound like it's coming out of left field, but I think I might be coming around to the thought

that I'd rather see a cigar which is "pushing the boundaries" simply banded as the PCC Celestiales Finos.

[bunburyist]

So let me ask you and the membership this: Let's say that in 2015 or so, the general consensus is that these are good / very good cigars.

Would it bother anyone if they were unlike any other Ramon Allones cigar ever produced - not really representative of what we might feel

the marque to be? Or might we celebrate that difference.

If Ramon Allones was a privately owned, stand alone company would we be more apt to accept that each size within the portfolio had it's own

distinct profile? I know that some or all of this might sound like it's coming out of left field, but I think I might be coming around to the thought

that I'd rather see a cigar which is "pushing the boundaries" simply banded as the PCC Celestiales Finos.

For me, I like to see the core flavours of a brand feature in all their vitolas. Whilst we all know the brands as companies don't exist, and their direction is centrally controlled, it's nice to think there is some continuity to the house flavour chosen by the blenders of each brand.

If I picked up a new Boli and it was light and fragrant, then had a Fonseca which tasted like it had been dipped in a cauldron of peppery tar I would certainly be disappointed. I like knowing my ERDMs are light and easy, and that I can pick up a Partagas knowing it'll make a good after dinner smoke. Otherwise....there might as well be no branding whatsoever and have every cigar released as a Cubatobacco or whatever it is.

I think if they marques were privately owned, we would still expect there to be some uniformity of flavour. I hope the RA CF stays true to brand, and whilst no I don't want a different sized RASS, I like being able to pick up a smoke and being able to tell where it's from. Maybe I just like living in the comfort zone

[tigger]

So let me ask you and the membership this: Let's say that in 2015 or so, the general consensus is that these are good / very good cigars.

Would it bother anyone if they were unlike any other Ramon Allones cigar ever produced - not really representative of what we might feel

the marque to be? Or might we celebrate that difference.

If Ramon Allones was a privately owned, stand alone company would we be more apt to accept that each size within the portfolio had it's own

distinct profile? I know that some or all of this might sound like it's coming out of left field, but I think I might be coming around to the thought

that I'd rather see a cigar which is "pushing the boundaries" simply banded as the PCC Celestiales Finos.

As long as the merchant I bought them from had explained to me that they didn't start out typical of the marque, I wouldn't be particularly disgruntled.

If the brand were privately owned, as long as the owners/managers communicated the characteristics of each vitola, I'd be fine with what you've posited.

I'm guessing that this is as close as anyone can come to a distributor branded smoke at this time. Perhaps the entire ER range should be viewed as such.

[bassman]

wow, this just reinforces the need to pick up more 07 Estupendos. I love all the excuses on this thread. Why is it all of sudden OK to have a cigar that is going to need years to come around? Not trying to be an ass, just wonder why all of a sudden this is OK, after the past few years of very approachable ciagrs????

So you can have something to put away, maybe smoke 1 or 2 a year & watch it's evolution, while smoking you stock of currently approachable cigars.

[brian1]

Very interesting watching the video review and also the comments/debate that followed. For me even at an admitedly great price point for a RE, I have no interest in waiting 10-15 years for a cigar to come good. Just too many other choices out there that are great now and will Also improve with additional aging.

I dont buy into the it tastes like **** now but could be amazing in 2024 logic.

[Cubatabaco]

For me, I have miss the "good" Celestiales Finos and when the size was presented again, I was sold immediately. This may be the case for many. When I first got into cigars, I looked for the strongest thing I could find. Now, I enjoy a cigar that is refined with, a little bit of strength, but flavorful. From the review, I don't see any of that coming out of the RACF for quite some time.

Maybe the blend should have been geared toward the Spanish market which enjoys there smokes a little heavier/full than most? On the other hand, what do you expect from a 3 month old cigar?

[aavkk]

wow, this just reinforces the need to pick up more 07 Estupendos. I love all the excuses on this thread. Why is it all of sudden OK to have a cigar that is going to need years to come around? Not trying to be an ass, just wonder why all of a sudden this is OK, after the past few years of very approachable ciagrs????

Well for me it comes down to speculation. Dont quote me on this but I believe Rob equated much of this experience to that of 95 or 96 production fresh off the table. Look at what those turned into down the road and how sought after those cigars are now. Sure its a long time but with all of the regular production stock smoking great off the table who knows how that is going to smoke in 10 years. Personally, if I have to put these in the back of the humidor for many years Im not going to sweat it, I've got plenty others to choose from.