OK Prez... give us the insiders scoop.

[Fishhound]

Very good question Rob.

Prez thanks for the education, this was a very informative read.

[havanaclub7]

Prez,

Without naming names or even implying anyone in particular, what percentage of cigars offered by parallel importers do you estimate are counterfeit? Maybe that's an impossible question to answer, but I'm very curious what your thoughts are. Before finding FoH, I think I did business with one of these companies (Swiss based) and it seemed that at least 80% of the cigars were spot on but from time to time it seemed like the other 20% were way off (based on flavor, ash color, etc.). Fortunately I only ordered 3 and 5 packs a handfull of times and then I found FoH.

[El Presidente]

There are very reputable Parallel Importers (100% genuine) and there are others...0% genuine and you have a whole range of others in between.

It is no different with end retailers be they online or B&M.

You buy the person you are dealing with.

[genevapics]

Thanks for the information El Prez. Fascinating information. Kudos to you for seeing an opportunity and taking the chance to make a dream come true. Great story all around.

[Mr. Japan]

This is fascinating. Thank you Rob&Rob

[gacigarman]

Rob,

This is great stuff. Thanks for sharing with all of us.

Bill

[Jay Hemingway]

» Very interesting, Prez. On another cigar board, there were reports of a

» large cigar retailer in another country selling fake EL Cohiba Sublimes.

» Based on the bands alone, they were obvious fakes. What's interesting is

» that the distributor refused to call out the vendor for selling the

» obvious fakes. And the vendor, as you illustrate, blamed the distributor.

havanclub, i too read most of the fiasco behind the sublime thread on the other board. so what was the end result when it went back to the official distributor for that country? the vendor stated they came from the official HSA importer and they would bring it up to them. what was their reply?

el prez, thank you very much for the read, very good information indeed.

[brooklyn]

outstanding post;most forthright and informative.:-)

[havanaclub7]

» havanclub, i too read most of the fiasco behind the sublime thread on the

» other board. so what was the end result when it went back to the official

» distributor for that country? the vendor stated they came from the

» official HSA importer and they would bring it up to them. what was their

» reply?

Their official reply was to neither confirm nor deny they supplied the counterfeit Sublimes to the vendor, but at the same time to replace the fakes with some Partagas Serie D No. 3 ELs (if I remember right). In fact, I don't even know they admit they were fakes, but they clearly were. I highly, highly doubt the distributor had anything to do with the Sublimes. What I can't understand is why the distributor is standing up for the vendor.

[El Presidente]

What I can't understand is why the distributor is standing up

for the vendor.

Let me have a crack at it:

The Vendor is a significant retailer. The vendor is important to the distribution strategy of the distributor.

There is a lot of good will when you "let someone off the hook".

The distributor comes out of it all with a leading vendor locked in tighter than ever.

[Jay Hemingway]

i just see that as a very ,very bad move on the part of the main distributor. they are the main (and only garunteed) link to cuba for legitimate habanos for that entire country. if it is real it has to come through them.

now we have a case were they are backing a vendor who sold fake cuban cigars and they are to still be trusted? it's like all that was holy is lost. it's almost like an LCDH sold fake cubans.

people from that country can swear by any vendor as long as it came through that distribution house... where does this hold up now???

now the people can no longer garuantee they are recieving a 100% legit habanos just because it came through the distributor. it seems that word is now void....it seems they are backing a vendor who may bring them a lot of business, but in the long run how can they expect the people to trust them anymore?

it just sucks for the people there. they already get raped on taxes now they can't be certain they are getting legit product. it just sucks. what can ya do.

[El Presidente]

Jay

Today I smoked a cigar sent by a FOH member who queried its authenticity. The cigar was supplied by a noteable merchant of a foreign country. The cigar was a Millenium release.

Now the cigar was fake. Cuban sure, but not what was purported. We are talking close enough to $2K.

I know the retailer involved who will deny emphatically of any wrong doing. Pressed, he will state that the cigars did not come from the Authorised distribution channel but that he has no doubts of authenticity.

I have no answers. I am happy to say no in regards that we do not have any LE's from 2001 or Milleniums or what not. I sleep well in my L shaped bed. I turn a dollar no more no less and it gives Lise and I a buzz that in the main our clients are happy. We will never be the biggest dealers and given our supply limitations I accept that.

As a purchaser you have the right to ask your retailer if the cigars have come from ************* distributor. Do it. If they are parallel importers then have them stand behind their product but keep in mind that in relation to hard to secure stock there is a risk.

The retailer may have XXXXXXXX stock for sale, it is tempting, but know in your heart that to them it is not fake if they do not know it is.

Re-read the above sentence.

[Fatcigar]

» Today I smoked a cigar sent by a FOH member who queried its authenticity.

» The cigar was supplied by a noteable merchant of a foreign country. The

» cigar was a Millenium release.

»

» Now the cigar was fake. Cuban sure, but not what was purported. We are

» talking close enough to $2K.

»

» I know the retailer involved who will deny emphatically of any wrong

» doing. Pressed, he will state that the cigars did not come from the

» Authorised distribution channel but that he has no doubts of authenticity.

»

»

» I have no answers. I am happy to say no in regards that we do not have any

» LE's from 2001 or Milleniums or what not. I sleep well in my L shaped bed.

» I turn a dollar no more no less and it gives Lise and I a buzz that in the

» main our clients are happy. We will never be the biggest dealers and given

» our supply limitations I accept that.

»

» As a purchaser you have the right to ask your retailer if the cigars have

» come from ************* distributor. Do it. If they are parallel importers

» then have them stand behind their product but keep in mind that in relation

» to hard to secure stock there is a risk.

»

» The retailer may have XXXXXXXX stock for sale, it is tempting, but know in

» your heart that to them it is not fake if they do not know it is.

»

» Re-read the above sentence.

Thanks Prez for giving us such a candid description of your ex-life as a Parallel Importer. Aren't you now glad that you have become 'Official' so that both you & all your customers can sleep better at night :-P

Fascinating thread indeed. Now, let me be the devil's advocate. Suppose a Rob 2 (Parallel) emerges in Queensland and are grabbing a significant share of your customers away. Someone told me that you're #2 in PCC's book but this Rob 2 has become double your size!

What will you do in defense or offense to grab back your customers & then some....all fair in love & war !

There are 2 possibilities:

1) You caught Rob 2 selling fakes so you align w/PCC to sue the SOB just like the case in Singapore.

2) Or Rob 2 learns well like you, he never touches fakies. So you learn of his links and expose him but like usual, all parties proclaim denials so back to Square 1. Rob 2 is also smart to use more than 3 sub-distributors to alternate & balance sources for his advantages. Like Chinese saying, "smart rabbits have more than 3 homes, hard to catch."

This is just a friendly chess play & no disrespect intended. But with negative affects from worldwide's smoking bans, all Licensee holders are struggling to maintain volume! That's why you see so many discount programs from all over the world right now.

[El Presidente]

t both you & all your customers can sleep better at night :-P

»

» Fascinating thread indeed. Now, let me be the devil's advocate. Suppose a

» Rob 2 (Parallel) emerges in Queensland and are grabbing a significant

» share of your customers away. Someone told me that you're #2 in PCC's book

» but this Rob 2 has become double your size!

»

» What will you do in defense or offense to grab back your customers & then

» some....all fair in love & war !

»

» There are 2 possibilities:

» 1) You caught Rob 2 selling fakes so you align w/PCC to sue the SOB just

» like the case in Singapore.

» 2) Or Rob 2 learns well like you, he never touches fakies. So you learn of

» his links and expose him but like usual, all parties proclaim denials so

» back to Square 1. Rob 2 is also smart to use more than 3 sub-distributors

» to alternate & balance sources for his advantages. Like Chinese saying,

» "smart rabbits have more than 3 homes, hard to catch."

»

» This is just a friendly chess play & no disrespect intended. But with

» negative affects from worldwide's smoking bans, all Licensee holders are

» struggling to maintain volume! That's why you see so many discount

» programs from all over the world right now.

It is a question we have faced in the past.

I don't lose any sleep about competition. So many have come and gone in the last decade. We focus on keeping a simple business model tight and evolving. We focus on our relationships with suppliers and clients. We need to remain price competitive but price is not the final arbiter in our model.

If I come across a start up who is peddling fake cigars then it is a simple matter of teaming with PCC and legally shutting them down. I would involve customs and police in a heartbeat.

If it is a legitimate operator selling parralel imported goods (Genuine) and doing it as a Home Depot type operation on a huge scale then I would need to address it in a different matter.

1. Seek supplier support.

2. Work out his weaknesses and exploit them. He would have no local client base so advantage myself. Rumour is he is a child molester.......advantage myself.

3. If all else fails .....Jewish Lightning.

Seriously though, if your business model is based on certain intrinsic principles which are part of you and your staff's psyche...then how are you going to change them? Maintain what you are doing well and we may lose a % of clientelle but we are unlikely to lose friends. The vast majority of FOH members use multiple supplers for their cigar needs. We ecourage it as we could never supply all member requirements.

While we know you play around on us we only ask that you sleep at home occasionally

[Guest rob]

» 1. Seek supplier support.

» 2. Work out his weaknesses and exploit them. He would have no local client

» base so advantage myself. Rumour is he is a child molester.......advantage

» myself.

» 3. If all else fails .....Jewish Lightning.

LOLOLOL

:-D

Awesome reply.

[El Presidente]

Jay just one more thing.

One of the most ethical people I know in this industry is perhaps the largest online cigar dealer in the world. He set benchmarks for online service and price that everyone else followed.

He is a parralel importer. In this industry I would take his ethics above pretty much anyone else I know.

While we are competitors (and I am a minor one), we still take the time out to communicate and discuss issues at hand to help each other out where need be.

I am not down on Parallel Importers who import from HSA distributors. Hell, I was one and I admire their ability to work this industry so beautifully.

I do get peeved at peddlers of fakes. Worse when they are respected retailers who should have known better.

[Tampa1257]

» I am not down on Parallel Importers who import from HSA distributors.

» Hell, I was one and I admire their ability to work this industry so

» beautifully.

»

» I do get peeved at peddlers of fakes. Worse when they are respected

» retailers who should have known better.

Rob, I believe that all of us, well certainly a large majority of us here at FOH have at one time used a Parallel Importer to purchase cigars before.

The bottom-line is the Trust issue. When a before and Trusted and well thought of retailer has been found out to be selling Fakes and they deny the fact and then rush to save their creditability by passing the buck to an authorized Habanos S.A. Distributor. Trust is gone, spent, never to be held again.

In the grand scheme of the Habanos Distributors volume, the cigar buying community is above average in intellegence and when a sellers of Fakes is found out, the volume that the Habanos S.A. Distributor is counting on from that retailer is going to suffer, thus why would they consider supporting such seller of Fakes? By passing on bringing out the Outside the authorized chain retailer, the Authorized Distributor is damaging their creditability as well as the seller of Fakes. Opps, my bad just doesn't work in the environment today. The Seller of Fakes (Known or un-Known, wink, wink) loses all Trust and creditability so their volume will decrease and rightly so.

I just do not see any upside for a Authorized Habanos Distributor to turn a blind eye to a Parallel Importer when they have been caught selling Fakes. Once a retailer has sold Fakes (Known or Un-Known, wink, wink) (I say wink, wink because for a retailer to buy Fakes outside the Authorized Distribution channel is not only stupid, but shows that all they are after is additional profits and do not care about the customer or any type of relationship).

Once a seller of Fakes, always a seller of Fakes, period, end of story. And personally, I feel they should be Outed for being a scumbag and no one should ever do business with them again. They have destroyed any Trust they may ever have had.

[Fatcigar]

» 3. If all else fails .....Jewish Lightning.

That's funny...i once was tempted to tell a Jewish smoker of this definition but was afraid of him striking me instead, but fortunately, he is unorthodox !!!

» While we know you play around on us we only ask that you sleep at home

» occasionally

Wish you can convince a wife of that theory !

:rotfl:

[havanaclub7]

» Rob, I believe that all of us, well certainly a large majority of us here

» at FOH have at one time used a Parallel Importer to purchase cigars

» before.

»

» The bottom-line is the Trust issue. When a before and Trusted and well

» thought of retailer has been found out to be selling Fakes and they deny

» the fact and then rush to save their creditability by passing the buck to

» an authorized abanos S.A. Distributor. Trust is gone, spent, never to be

» held again.

»

» In the grand scheme of the Habanos Distributors volume, the cigar buying

» community is above average in intellegence and when a sellers of Fakes is

» found out, the volume that the Habanos S.A. Distributor is counting on

» from that retailer is going to suffer, thus why would they consider

» supporting such seller of Fakes? By passing on bringing out the Outside

» the authorized chain retailer, the Authorized Distributor is damaging

» their creditability as well as the seller of Fakes. Opps, my bad just

» doesn't work in the environment today. The Seller of Fakes (Known or

» un-Known, wink, wink) loses all Trust and creditability so their volume

» will decrease and rightly so.

»

» I just do not see any upside for a Authorized Habanos Distributor to turn

» a blind eye to a Parallel Importer when they have been caught selling

» Fakes. Once a retailer has sold Fakes (Known or Un-Known, wink, wink) (I

» say wink, wink because for a retailer to buy Fakes outside the Authorized

» Distribution channel is not only stupid, but shows that all they are after

» is additional profits and do not care about the customer or any type of

» relationship).

»

» Once a seller of Fakes, always a seller of Fakes, period, end of story.

» And personally, I feel they should be Outed for being a scumbag and no one

» should ever do business with them again. They have destroyed any Trust they

» may ever have had.

Tampa,

In general I agree with you 100%. I think it's terrible that an authorized dealer would go outside the chain and sell fakes. It disturbs me very much that the HSA distributor for the country would stand by the dealer given the huge breach. I'm sure Rob is right that it's a matter of dollars and cents for the distributor and that's very unfortunate. Fortunately, I don't purchase from that country any more. The taxes are too high, the currency is now in par with the U.S. dollar and I'm a happy and proud FoH client.

I disagree with your comments about cigar smokers and intelligence. It's human nature to want rare and hard to find cigars. It's also human nature to want to believe what you see on the internet -- especially if it's from an authorized company. I think Rob's comments that if it's too good to be true it usually is ring true.

[Taino]

One of the beautiful things about FOH is that we all know Rob sells fakes, tasty but fakes. But we don't really care Rob, we love you and take you as one of our charities. You have Ken, we have you.;-) :-P

[El Presidente]

Thank you Taino.....that is one of the most touching things I have ever read......:crying:

[xibbumbero]

Amazing read Don Presidente. X

[Colt45]

» One of the beautiful things about FOH is that we all know Rob sells fakes,

» tasty but fakes.

I didn't start receiving fugazis until I stood up and defended myself from RA's harassment.

[El Presidente]

»

» So a majority of the parrallel market originates from some distributor

» across the globe.....

»

» Does Habanos sell directly to any parrallel importers without originating

» from a distributor?

»

» If this happens, doesn't it upset the distributor for that region when it

» does or is it a result of the distributor not meeting their sales

» numbers?

»

HSA does not sell directly to any parallel importer.

[smokum]

» One of the beautiful things about FOH is that we all know Rob sells fakes,

» tasty but fakes. But we don't really care Rob, we love you and take you as

» one of our charities. You have Ken, we have you.;-) :-P

Taino you have just assured yourself that from now on any cigar you buy will go on sale the week following your purchase. I pity you. I too am condemned to Ayala purgatory.