Question for members on tasteless cigars and their evolution

[El Presidente]

I have just completed a review on a young 07 Magnum 46 which I will post tomorrow as I am late for a flight now. It raised a more general question in my mind which I would like your input. I will use the Magnum 46 as an example but it pertains to all cigars.

I don’t think that any cigar has had such a mixed reception over recent years. I think that on balance it has gone from one of the greats in the early 2000’s to a shadow of itself in 04/05 although you see sporadic great reviews from these vintages mixed with more negative. I have to sway to the latter. 2006 was mixed. At times I willed myself to believe that a full revival was upon us with the Mag 46 with the tasting of some excellent cigars only to have my bubble burst with some dreary papery 46’s from follow up boxes. I know that Ken believes they need age to really show their soul and I agree that Upmanns perhaps need more age than any other Marque. Yet I am not convinced that a cigar which shows nothing…no body..no personality…no flavour, will ever be a very good cigar. In its youth I am happy to have an unsmokeable cigar if the smokeability is affected by tannin, ammonia, bitterness. These are elements of youth in some cigars but they also show that the cigar has some soul and hope for redemption over 3-5 years. Often they become the best cigars in your humidor. Yet to this day I have never had a weak cigar…whispy flavours…papery, devoid of life and substance which has ever come good. I stand to be corrected but I am only sharing my own experience.

The question I have for members is whether in your experience have you ever had a cigar which in its youth has shown nothing....nada...zilch ever come good. If so, pray tell.

[shortsqueeze]

I remember smoking a Distinguido from an '05 box. Bland, nothing, zilch. I traded most away and then with two left, decided to smoke one about a year later. Deep flavours of black cherries and espresso; just incredible. What a transformation. And I had traded away the whole box. I'm not sure this is representative of most experiences revisiting a dud of a cigar though ...

[shrink]

Rob, my experience with cigars that are 'bland' when young parallels yours. They're pretty much hopeless. There are a number of reasons why a young cigar may not be approachable, such as too strong, too bitter, too much citrus, unbalanced, etc. But at least these things give me reason to hope, and wait for a year or two. The best Mag 46's I've ever had were plenty strong when young, spicy with lots of 'twang'.

[Colt45]

» The question I have for members is whether in your experience have you

» ever had a cigar which in its youth has shown

» nothing....nada...zilch ever come good. If so, pray tell.

No.... PSD4s from '05 come to mind. I acquired a bunch of singles. They were insipid when I got them.

Every one I have tried since has been insipid. I have one left that I have no doubt will also be insipid.

I would not use these as mulch - I would not want the grass to be subjected to such insipidity.

[greenpimp]

The truly bland cigars I have had have never come around. A box of 2002 RyJ Belicosos comes to mind, as well as a cab of 2001 BBF's (I know, gasp, the incredulity of it all.) I still have some of both, sample at 6 months. Neither are worth a damn still.

I would almost rather it tasted bad than bland. Bad has a chance someday.

[KWG116]

I have had a box of Hoyo Epi 2's that were completely tasteless out of the box. I smoked a few and just did not taste a thing. I thought I made a big mistake ordering them, so I threw them in the humidor and forgot about them. Six months later was a whole new story. They were fantastic. Complex flavors. It was amazing. I wish I still had a few. I have also experienced this with a box of ERDM lunch clubs from 01. But again, six months later they were great.

Thank you

[BigSlick]

PSD 4's BLR Nov05. After one month of rest I fired one up and thought I got a "bunk" box. Lil bastards turned a corner after 1 year and became a damn fine smoke. Still have a few left from that box that I wll have to re-visit soon. Will post a review shortly thereafter. TD

[anacostiakat]

I honestly do not think you can totally say either way.

I think mostly I would agree that flavorless/bland presents a real challenge to discern any improvement with age.

Prime example is the Trini REs. I will revisit them in 2010 maybe but I expect little frankly.

But there have been other examples (a number) that have surprised me.

I believe like Ken that Upmann's require ageing (minimum of 5 and 7 - 8 preferrred) in general.

However some time ago (April '06) I acquired a box of Mag 46s (JUL05) and a box of SIG VIs DIC04). Let them rest and tried one from each box.

The Upmmann's blew the SIG VIs away. I put them away for later.

Anyway, to answer your question I think as a rule of thumb I would agree but there are going to be exceptions and it will depend on whether you think there is anything there to begin with.

[tigger]

» The question I have for members is whether in your experience have you

» ever had a cigar which in its youth has shown

» nothing....nada...zilch ever come good. If so, pray tell.

The only possible instance of this I've experienced was a box of PSD NO. 4 from the late '90s/very early '00s.

I let them settle for a few weeks, smoked one, and it was flat and lifeless. Put them away for a couple of years, and they were terrific. Whether it was a case of young cigars becoming good, or a dud in a box of good 'uns, I don't know.

I have a couple of boxes of a couple of different cigars from '05/'06 that started dull, and haven't gotten any better. Time will tell.

[Ken Gargett]

you have noted my thoughs re the upmann 46 but i am not sure that even those that improved had absolutely nothing to begin with.

of course, if you are right, as i strongly suspect you are, then fat chance of the Monte C's ever coming around.

[Vinny]

Talkin about the mag 46, I felt a huge difference between production from early 06 and late 06.

I have 2 cab's from oct and dec 06 (all ROA) and they are both unbelievable! The dec 06 is a maduro wrapper cab and can be smoked right now, even though I'd rather give it a little rest.

What I mean is for me, the cab of 50 is definitely the best option for this cigar and even better if it is from end of 06.

I havent tasted some 07 right now, but the connie's No1 are a class higher than the 06 and the Sir Winston are high class (as always) too.

I think end of 06 and 07 are great years for H.Upmann. Then it's up to us to have the patience to see what these cigars will be like in a couple of years...:-D

[tuff]

I'd like to comment on this. I have several 04 cabs of Mag 46 and at one time thought about trading them away as there was not much there. Over a period of two years these turned into the most flavor laden smokes I have, so very glad I held onto them.

I think most Habanos lovers have seen this sort of development in their cigars and that is why it is standard procedure now to "lay" cigars up as they enter that "sick" period. I have received cigars that were great right of the truck and then entered a very flat period for a year or so, and I have received some that were already in a "sick" period and lifeless.

To really answer Rob's question; I have never received any Habanos that did not come around in a very big way, even if totally lifeless at one time. However, the only kiss of death in my experience is if they are underfilled. I have had just a few boxes where every cigar was underfilled. I have aged them for four or five years and ended up tossing every one. Just defective from the get go and worthless.

I am curious to hear what other people have experienced in this regard.

Tuff

[winelover]

U. Upmann no.2 box code ECA MAY 02. I picked these up in the Autumn and did not enjoy a single cigar.

They burned unevenly, the flavours were completely muddled, the stength was non-existent, the only flavour was some kind of foul peanut - you get the picture. I just smoked them like a sports player would take a hit for the team - just to get rid of them.

Anyway I had one last weekend, and after further box drying (that's my humi for you ), the cigar was totally transformed. Strength had re-emerged, balance had come out of no-where and the peanut flavours integrated well. Wonderful smoke. First 10 were completely sick duds but the last 14 should be gems.

[Colt45]

» However, the only kiss of death in my experience is if they are

» underfilled. I have had just a few boxes where every cigar was

» underfilled. I have aged them for four or five years and ended up tossing

» every one. Just defective from the get go and worthless.

»

» I am curious to hear what other people have experienced in this regard.

I have an '05 box of RAASS that fit this description perfectly. Underfilled, rather loose draws, various girths.

These have been better than the PSD4s, but just barely. I smoke one every now and then just to see

if there really is such a thing as alchemy.

[56Tweed]

I've seen some inconsistencies with the Mag46s as well. For the most part I think they should be stronger than most Upmanns when fresh and then mellow which is sort of the opposite as the typical Upmann curve.

I had a box of '04 Sig VIs that I had for a couple of years. It was my first box and my only introduction to the cigar. I was VERY disappointed with it and used to give them away wondering what all the fuss was about. They had almost no flavor or body. I was down to just a few when I pulled one on a whim about a year ago. It was a brilliant cigar with great body and flavor; where had that been before I gave them all away! I greedily smoked through the rest of them over the next month or two and they are long gone. I've have a few boxes sitting now, and I won't even bother trying them before they are 3-4 years old.

[rafa]

When i bought a box of TRINI Reyes in December 2006 with code STL ABR06, they were bored. Today they are fantastic smokes

[shrink]

» When i bought a box of TRINI Reyes in December 2006 with code STL ABR06, they were bored.

You shouldn't allow your stock to get bored. Just think about it... sitting in boxes month after month, year after year, never even seeing the light of day. Ever hear of a cigar filing for divorce? It happens...So take 'em out for a drive, take 'em to a movie, have a heart-to-heart talk every now and then. They'll be happy. So when you sneak up on 'em and take one away, they won't even notice. They're just like sheep; right, Ken?

[greenpimp]

» You shouldn't allow your stock to get bored. Just think about it...

» sitting in boxes month after month, year after year, never even seeing the

» light of day.

That's why I rotate my cigars. Boredom can be worse than bugs. Make them stray into other marcas or---gasp---countries of origin.

[El Presidente]

» away, they won't even notice. They're just like sheep; right, Ken?