Continuation of discussion on cigar strength/vitolas etal

[shrink]

Wilkey is going to have a field day with this!

If I understand the data, you appear to be arguing that ONE of the reasons why the Conn #3 is stronger than the Lusi is the relatively greater proportion of ligero in the smaller cigar: 24% vs. 14.7%. Well, this makes sense.

I have wondered if, and have heard it argued that, the smaller ring size can also play a role in the perceived strength (and even complexity) of a cigar. According to this theory, espoused by Tampa and others, the smaller ring guage 'focuses' the strength and flavors in such a way as to increase the intensity of the cigar smoke's impact on the smoker. It could also be that the smaller ring guage tobacco burns somewhat 'hotter' than it's larger brother, which if true, could release more of the volatiles in the tobacco.

Perhaps the only certain test of this theory would be to test smoke larger ring guage cigars vs. their smaller counterparts, made with exactly the same wrapper, binder and fillers, in about the same proportions. Does anyone know if there are marcas in which these tobaccos and proportions are roughly identical for disparate vitolas?

I'm looking forward to Wilkey's analysis. Thanks, Rob.

[shrink]

Oh, and by the way...

How are you going to get these cigars back together before Ken drops by to pick up his freebies? ;-)

[El Presidente]

»

» Perhaps the only certain test of this theory would be to test smoke larger

» ring guage cigars vs. their smaller counterparts, made with exactly the

» same wrapper, binder and fillers, in about the same proportions. Does

» anyone know if there are marcas in which these tobaccos and proportions

» are roughly identical for disparate vitolas?

»

» I'm looking forward to Wilkey's analysis. Thanks, Rob.

What I will do is have Hamlet roll me five Robusto Extra and five 38-40 Ring Gauge cigars with the same leaf and same binder/filler proportions. I will shoot out the samples to You,Ken,Wilkey and Tampa to assess independently by smoking them. This is the only way I can think of doing such an exercise and make it meaningful. Hamlet is in Malaysia currently and I may get to see him in the coming months otherwise it will need to wait until I am at the Habanos Festival.

My next assignment is to break up two different Robusto's or larger(different Marques) but with the same Factory and date code + similar wrapper. I want to do a tasting review and a dissection in part to see what obvious blend differences there are if any. Of course what I will not see (if proportions of Ligero/Volado/Seco are the same) is from what finca's the bales have come from but it will add hopefully another piece to the puzzle.

As for Ken ....I will tell him the taped up cigars are a new fandangled "Custom" from a new roller call "La Loca".

[zuma]

» I will tell him the taped up cigars are a new fandangled "Custom" from a new roller call "La Loca".

[Tampa1257]

» » I will tell him the taped up cigars are a new fandangled "Custom" from a

» new roller call "La Loca".

»

»

Will Ken will believe this again??????;-)

[Colt45]

Thanks for taking the time (and cigars) to do this. Would it be fair to say that this

simply shows how these two particular cigars were intended to be blended?

The custom cigar test should be very interesting.

[chef2275]

looking forward to seeing the results of this..

[Jimmy2]

Most of the smaller ring cigars i smoke have much more flavor and strength than the bigger one's.

Mainly i think is tasting the outer Leaf more because less filler and binder.

As Tampa always said smaller has more flavor a i am a true believer now.

My fav size is 40 to 46 gauge and i think offer the best overall balanced flavor and strength.

My Fav bigger size stick is 47 gauge Boli CG this is just a perfect cigar.

Look at the Partagas Chicos this has some of the best flavors i have ever tasted when smoke right and its so small.

[Claudius]

» Most of the smaller ring cigars i smoke have much more flavor and strength

» than the bigger one's.

»

» Mainly i think is tasting the outer Leaf more because less filler and

» binder.

I dont think this is the case, as there is only an 0.6% difference in wrapper leaf proportion between the 2 cigars dissected here. Rather, the 9.3% relative increase in ligero seems to be main factor here.

Having identically proportioned / blended cigars in different ring gauges taste tested by various smokers will be more difficult to gain general acceptance as a reason for smaller ring gauge cigars developing more flavor since there are no objective criteria (like weight and proportion), but subjective ones (people's impressions while smoking a cigar). It's nonetheless an analysis the outcome of which I'm looking forward to. Good job!

[Tom Bolivar]

Guys, the pictures in this thread really remind me of bodyworlds... And it does freak me out a bit. ;-)

[genevapics]

Nice work El Prez.

[El Presidente]

» Thanks for taking the time (and cigars) to do this. Would it be fair to say

» that this

» simply shows how these two particular cigars were intended to be blended?

» The custom cigar test should be very interesting.

I don't doubt that the blend (Ligero proportions) were intentional. I found it interesting that the overall filler proportions of the Connie 3 were greater than the Lusitania.

Now this is a one off test. I will do another perhaps with a Bolivar Corona Gigantes and a Bolivar Petit Corona. If we get similar results then we can continue testing looking to see if the proportion of filler (and Ligero) in smaller gauge cigars is higher than large format cigars.

[EAbbott]

Thanks El Prez, Great comparison and very informative. Can't wait to see if the Bolivars turn out the same.

[Colt45]

» I will do another perhaps with a Bolivar Corona Gigantes and a Bolivar Petit Corona.

You're just trying to hurt me.....

» If we get similar results then we can continue testing looking to see if the proportion

» of filler (andLigero) in smaller gauge cigars is higher than large format cigars.

»

I'm looking forward to the results - thanks again :-)

[wp2]

Great info Rob, keep it comin'.

[Miami101]

Good information>>>>>I have to go over it a few times..

[havanaclub7]

Rob,

If we dissected cigars instead of frogs in high school science class, maybe I would be a scientist instead of a lawyer ! Great post!!!

[Ginseng]

Bloody well done, mate!

I could not have done a better job myself. You've given me grist for the thought mill and as soon as I am done teaching this evening, I'll be back with a response worthy of your effort.

Amazing!

Wilkey

[tigger]

Fascinating stuff Rob.

Surely makes me question my (subjective) thoughts about the contribution that wrapper makes.

Looking forward to more...

[skindiver]

No other cigar vendors or websites offer such in-depth knowledge of tobacco. Good on you, Rob!

I'm just wishing Hamlet was in Havana next week!

[El Presidente]

As a continuation of our discussion last week on strength/blend large cigars vs small cigars. There is a common perception that smaller cigars are more full flavoured so I wanted to dissect two cigars from the same Marque, one which is light/medium in body and one which is full bodied.

I have taken the opportunity to dissect the Partagas Lusitania (which I find is a typical light/medium bodied DC) and the Partagas Connoisseur No 3 (I find to be medium full).

Keep in mind that this is a one off test of a 2006 Connie 3 and a 2005 Lusitania. Much more testing needs to be done in order to get a sufficient data to determine any worthwhile theories. In fact I would love to dissect a 2005/06 Lusi and a 1996-1998 Lusi (another day if I have the cojones to dissect a 1996-1998 Lusi )

I think you may find the end data interesting.

Lets start with the Partagas Lusitania.

Total Weight of Lusitania 17.05 grams.

Wrapper weight 1.00 gram (5.9 % of total cigar weight)

Picture of cigar with Binder only. Note that two binders are used (common)

Weight of Binder when seperated from Filler is 5 grams ( 29.32 % of total cigar weight)

Weight of Filler is 11 grams ( 64.51% of total weight of cigar)

Interestingly, the Ligero (top filler in photo) was significantly less than the Volado or Seco by terms of volume. The Ligero weighed just on 2 grams or 14.7% of the total weight of the cigar.

Please note that the Lusitania was a tad underfilled as it should have weighed in the vicinity of 17.80 Grams.

Now the Partagas Connoisseur No 3 (bottom cigar for the uninitiated)

Total Weight of the Partagas Connoisseur No 3 was 7.5 grams.

Wrapper weight .5 gram (6.6 % of total cigar weight)

Picture of cigar with Binder only

Weight of Binder when seperated from Filler is 1.5 grams ( 20 % of total cigar weight)[/b]

Weight of Filler is 5.5 grams ( 73.3 % of total weight of cigar)

Proportion of Ligero/Seco/Volado appear and weigh almost identical. Proportion of Ligero is 24% of the total tobacco weight of the Connoisseur No 3 cigar.

So in summary what do we have.

1. Higher overall % of Ligero in the Connie 3 as opposed to the Lusitania. This certainly partly explains the strength.

2. The unheralded but none the less importance of quality binder. These leaves make up a significant proportion of the cigar particularly in comparison to wrapper.

3. Higher proportion/percentage of filler in the smaller cigar.

3. Nothing overly conclusive. Simply another piece of information :-)