What does Habanos S.A. have to do?

[LordAnubis]

So. Some have stuck to Cubans. And if their pockets are deep enough and they enjoy 'em then good on 'em. Others however have defected to the dark side for many reasons, a lot around value for money. Now I note that before there were high value NCs and they had a place for a lot of people, and they would reach for them instead of much cheaper Cubans at times. Now Cuba is on par with the high end NCs price wise and everyone’s losing marbles. Before “aahhhh it’s just Cuba being Cuba” was considered a nice quirk. Now it’s blasphemous. 

My question is; what does Habanos S.A. need to do to get you back?

A - it’s over. You had your chance. Good luck in the corner.

B - it’s all about the mooooonnneeeyy. Make em cheaper, keep everything else as is.

C - hold the price make the cigars better, I mean every d4 in the box should be the best D4s I’ve tasted and know of before.

D - hold the price and keep the variability the same (some good cigars some great cigars in a box), but make the quality control better. No plugs, consistent size every time, cigars can have their good and bad but hey that’s Cuba.

E - it’s all good, price is good poor QC is good, just bring back availability so I can choose what I want and it’s always available on the shelf  

What I’m trying to get at is what fundamental reason would make you chose a 25 buck Padron over a 25 buck D4? And so what would Habanos S.A.need to do to make you chose the d4 over the Padron?  Everyone used to say Cuban tobacco is best of the best? What’s changed?

For me I haven’t bought in ages and I went very, very deep at the perfect time. But today I wouldn’t buy a Cuban purely on price.

[david9985]

B, from your list. That isn't to say I don't buy Cuban sticks, but they are a smaller percentage of total cigar spend.

[TroutBum]

Hard A for this guy outside of maybe minutos just too much value in the NC side and can’t afford a 500-800 dollar box that may or may not be good.

[Vetteman]

15 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

What I’m trying to get at is what fundamental reason would make you chose a 25 buck pardon over a 25 buck D4? 

Two reasons, one psychological and one not. 

I have a hard time paying 3 times as much for a cigar than I had only months (now a couple years) earlier. That kind of increase in a relatively short time for something like cigars just bothered me mentally. The second reason is when I buy a box of Padron, I’m reasonably sure every stick will smoke well, if not perfect. With Cuban cigars, the opposite.

I always smoked some NC along with Cubans, and had a decent collection of Cubans before the pricing change. I have only purchased 2 boxes of smaller (Romeo no. 2) since the change. 

[LordAnubis]

15 hours ago, Vetteman said:

Two reasons, one psychological and one not.

I have a hard time paying 3 times as much for a cigar than I had only months (now a couple years) earlier. That kind of increase in a relatively short time for something like cigars just bothered me mentally. The second reason is when I buy a box of Padron, I’m reasonably sure every stick will smoke well, if not perfect. With Cuban cigars, the opposite.

I always smoked some NC along with Cubans, and had a decent collection of Cubans before the pricing change. I have only purchased 2 boxes of smaller (Romeo no. 2) since the change. 

This is an excellent point. If you didn’t know what the old price was, would you still chose NC? Effectively you’re saying that the NC product is better in all regards currently? 

[Li Bai]

It would be D for me given the chances of seeing HSA decreasing prices is null.

15 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

What I’m trying to get at is what fundamental reason would make you chose a 25 buck pardon over a 25 buck D4?

None outside of curiosity, Padrons are so rare in France I've never come across any.

[Doctorossi]

For me, it would be a combination of lowering prices and reversing course on the general direction of size/shape availability. You don't include it in your list but just as instrumental in my buying changes over the last decade has been that Habanos has just stopped making much of what I love, full stop. Price isn't even a consideration if you can't buy what you're looking for at any price.

So, they'd need to bring back something approximating many of my old faves and also do it at a reasonable, competitive price that's not chasing "lifestyle" dollars. Odds of this kind of change happening in my lifetime are what... 1 in 1000?

[SCgarman]

A PSD4 currently is a 25 dollar cigar. You can buy "many" Padron 64/26 cigars for far less than 25 dollars. A box of Monte 4 is now $425/box. In the NC portfolio in the USA there are tons of options for far less than $425/box. Monte 4 is a $250 box at most. HSA has lost me at their current pricing. They will never lower prices, and will just double down on stupid and keep raising their pricing into the stratosphere until only the wealthiest can afford them. Personally I couldn't care less. Let them charge $800 for a box of Monte 4. Those with money to burn will still fool themselves with their FOMO mentality. But to each their own. 

[Lamboinee]

Option F: a combo of price and quality consistency between boxes. Lately the consistency between boxes has become my greater concern. While I still think they are charging a bit too much for many cigars (and waaaaaay too much for others e.g. Cohiba Behike), I'm more turned-off by the fact that I've purchased 3 boxes of different CCs within the last year that have been well below the standards of acceptability. Oddly, I have not experienced a lot of problems with consistency between cigars from the same box. It seems others have.

[mikejh]

14 hours ago, SCgarman said:

A PSD4 currently is a 25 dollar cigar. You can buy "many" Padron 64/26 cigars for far less than 25 dollars. A box of Monte 4 is now $425/box. In the NC portfolio in the USA there are tons of options for far less than $425/box. Monte 4 is a $250 box at most. HSA has lost me at their current pricing. They will never lower prices, and will just double down on stupid and keep raising their pricing into the stratosphere until only the wealthiest can afford them. Personally I couldn't care less. Let them charge $800 for a box of Monte 4. Those with money to burn will still fool themselves with their FOMO mentality. But to each their own. 

Also, most US retailers are constantly having sales, an online retailer I use had two separate 20% off sales within the last week.

[HenryMartin]

15 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

Others however have defected to the dark side for many reasons, a lot around value for money. 

🤣🤣🤣

15 hours ago, Li Bai said:

It would be D for me given the chances of seeing HSA decreasing prices is null.

None outside of curiosity, Padrons are so rare in France I've never come across any.

They are difficult to find in many parts of the world which is a shame. Distribution is very uneven. It's like their market hasn’t matured yet. Except for Davidoff, they know how to distribute across the globe.

[Juliano88]

A for me. Too many good cigars in the New World for a fraction of the price with better quality. 

[Li Bai]

12 hours ago, HenryMartin said:

They are difficult to find in many parts of the world which is a shame. Distribution is very uneven. It's like their market hasn’t matured yet. Except for Davidoff, they know how to distribute across the globe.

My take on this is they don't make enough cigars to sell them where they make way less $/stick. I'd do the same if I were them.

[Chibearsv]

My answer is B. It's all about the money. I'm smoking 400-450 cigars a year. If I can buy NCs that are tasty for significantly less, that's the route I'm going to take. Before the price explosion, CCs were comparable or just a tiny bit more than NC, so stocking up on CC was reasonable. Now, with CCs typically $30-$50 each, it's tough to justify the purchase. I certainly wouldn't feel the same way if I only smoked one box a year.  

[Ford2112]

I will continue to buy tubos, 5 and 10 packs,the occasional box and supplement the supply with NC. I can't see ever completely giving up on CC. I need Partagas in my life at least. Minutos and PCs are still in reach for me depending on brand. I'm done with Trini and Cohiba pretty much.

[El Presidente]

How would a  HSA AI respond?   

 

Dear Jon

if you need to justify price for one reason or another......I am not for you.  

if you are content with other tobaccos ......I am not for you. 

It is not you it is me. We loved each other once but simply grew apart. We have different needs and I have decided to focus on my own wellbeing. 

I have made new wonderful friends. I am seeing someone new. 

I hope you find the same happiness in the DR or Nicaragua.

Don't contact me again.....

 

[Skrimp]

I'm gonna get fried for this lol. Let me preface with saying there is no replacement for that "Cuban Twang". Point blank period. I like Cubans and keep them around. But with that said, based on value, complexity, and quality, I truly believe there are more $12 NC's that I can count on both hands that blow most standard production Cubans out of the water. The value proposition of Cubans has no merit at this point. They raised priced just for the sake of raising prices. In no world would I compare a Padron Anniversary Series (~$25) to a D4. I think a better comparison would be to the La Aroma De Cuba Mi Amor (or something similar). $10-$12 for the Mi Amor, $25-$30 for the D4. The Mi Amor brings as much, if not more complexity, quality and consistency aren't even a question, and price is appropriate. The D4 loses that head-to-head by a landslide. The market is going to NC's because they are seeing that there is a whole other world full of insanely good cigars. Not only that, but in most cases, they're over half the price of a standard production Cuban. That Cuban flavor isn't enough to keep the consumer for much longer. There's simply too many other amazing options. I haven't even touched on the issue with fakes...I think that speaks for itself.

Cuba is going to be forced off their high horse eventually. If they hold their ground, they'll soon be on life support, supported solely by rich fanboys that care for nothing but status an allure (Cough...Jasim... Cough...Kirby.... Cough...). 

My answer is not listed and is most likely not going to happen. F: Lower prices back to reality, increase quality, increase quantity. 

Also, standard production Cubans didn't all the sudden become "on par with high end NC's". They manipulated the market to make seem that way. It's a facade. However, I am no fool. A D4 is worth 10-12 bucks. 

[SCgarman]

5 hours ago, Skrimp said:

I'm gonna get fried for this lol. Let me preface with saying there is no replacement for that "Cuban Twang". Point blank period. I like Cubans and keep them around. But with that said, based on value, complexity, and quality, I truly believe there are more $12 NC's that I can count on both hands that blow most standard production Cubans out of the water. The value proposition of Cubans has no merit at this point. They raised priced just for the sake of raising prices. In no world would I compare a Padron Anniversary Series (~$25) to a D4. I think a better comparison would be to the La Aroma De Cuba Mi Amor (or something similar). $10-$12 for the Mi Amor, $25-$30 for the D4. The Mi Amor brings as much, if not more complexity, quality and consistency aren't even a question, and price is appropriate. The D4 loses that head-to-head by a landslide. The market is going to NC's because they are seeing that there is a whole other world full of insanely good cigars. Not only that, but in most cases, they're over half the price of a standard production Cuban. That Cuban flavor isn't enough to keep the consumer for much longer. There's simply too many other amazing options. I haven't even touched on the issue with fakes...I think that speaks for itself.

Cuba is going to be forced off their high horse eventually. If they hold their ground, they'll soon be on life support, supported solely by rich fanboys that care for nothing but status an allure (Cough...Jasim... Cough...Kirby.... Cough...).

My answer is not listed and is most likely not going to happen. F: Lower prices back to reality, increase quality, increase quantity.

Also, standard production Cubans didn't all the sudden become "on par with high end NC's". They manipulated the market to make seem that way. It's a facade. However, I am no fool. A D4 is worth 10-12 bucks.

Yupper! And a Monte 4 is worth about 8 bucks, on a good day!

[unaslob]

I would be curious what HSA financials look like. What’s the bottom dollar they are pulling in? Covid-19 and hurricanes decimated production. How bad did that really affect the bottom line? With current demand you can't blame them from a business standpoint to jack up the price. One would hope that they are heavily investing in what killed their supply chains to hopefully bring up the supply end. Only then will we see a true stabilization of pricing. Long term things look grim imo though. Cuba has one of the oldest populations in the world and the one of the lowest birth rates too. Not a good combo. An interesting problem with no real solution in sight.

[Grimlock]

A box of $25 Padrons has 25 smokable cigars. A box of $25 D4's has 18 smokable cigars, 5 that are smokeable after being stabbed to death by a perfecdraw and 2 hopeless tent pegs (and that's if you get a good box). QC has not improved with the price increase. Davidoff sells well at high prices but there are almost no construction issues. I am still a buyer of CC but not nearly at the rate of previous years due to the combo of high prices and crap construction. 

[loose_axle]

I've got a pretty good stash of Cubans but I'm still happy to buy some 'top up' boxes but it's only maybe 1-2 times a year now. 

The Vegafina VF1998 series, CAO Brazilia, LFD Air Bender, Padron 6000, AF Anejo, Room 101 Doomsayer, Prometheus Sencillo and Casdagli lines have been my favourites for reg production/ non unicorns from that world. Some Davidoffs have been good but too exxy. I need to give My Father a go next. 

 

[Li Bai]

Reading this thread, I feel a bit jealous of those of you who started smoking cigars with NCs. 

I was born and raised with CCs as a cigar smoker (like many non-American cigar smokers) and it defined my palate early on, as a result even the best NCs I've had (some even outstanding) just can't compete, they all lack something to me, however you want to call it.

Had I been educated with NCs in the first place I might have been able to switch like many of you did but I can't. NCs are just sticks to fill a hole between two CCs to me. Four years ago I would purchase 2 to 3 boxes a month, last year I must have bought 4 or 5 boxes, it is what it is.

I hate what HSA has been doing the last years and I quite enjoy exploring the NC world but I'll keep buying CCs, I'll buy and smoke less but I just can't switch, I would 100% if I could. 

It's a wonderful/toxic relationship 😁

PS : Nudies are the only NCs that ever gave me hope, à quand un nouveau "Jugement de Paris" ?

[Arabian]

14 hours ago, Li Bai said:

Reading this thread, I feel a bit jealous of those of you who started smoking cigars with NCs. 

I was born and raised with CCs as a cigar smoker (like many non-American cigar smokers) and it defined my palate early on, as a result even the best NCs I've had (some even outstanding) just can't compete, they all lack something to me, however you want to call it.

Had I been educated with NCs in the first place I might have been able to switch like many of you did but I can't. NCs are just sticks to fill a hole between two CCs to me. Four years ago I would purchase 2 to 3 boxes a month, last year I must have bought 4 or 5 boxes, it is what it is.

I hate what HSA has been doing the last years and I quite enjoy exploring the NC world but I'll keep buying CCs, I'll buy and smoke less but I just can't switch, I would 100% if I could. 

It's a wonderful/toxic relationship 😁

PS : Nudies are the only NCs that ever gave me hope, à quand un nouveau "Jugement de Paris" ?

Cuban tobacco is the gold standard. no questions about that, they are unique and the twang is addictive. I would take a good Cuban over a perfect NC. However I'm smoking more and more of mehh Cuban cigars and keeping my fingers crossed that I will eventually have the ultimate box, it doesn't justify the Dollars they asking (or Riyals in my case). Meanwhile, I'm adding NC into my collection, the ones I came across were wonderful.

[Li Bai]

13 hours ago, Arabian said:

Cuban tobacco is the gold standard. no questions about that, they are unique and the twang is addictive. I would take a good Cuban over a perfect NC. However I'm smoking more and more of mehh Cuban cigars and keeping my fingers crossed that I will eventually have the ultimate box, it doesn't justify the Dollars they asking (or Riyals in my case). Meanwhile, I'm adding NC into my collection, the ones I came across were wonderful.

Agreed, same here 👍

But we don't have a say in their pricing so I'll just keep buying until I can't.

[HenryMartin]

Meanwhile Raul Castro is using Cohiba Lanceros to light the fireplace in his chateau.. 🏰