Smoking could be banned in UK’s pub gardens and outdoor restaurants

[Jaks93]

Leaked Whitehall documents reveal plans to extend indoor smoking ban to a number of open-air spaces.

Smoking could be banned in pub gardens, outdoor restaurants, outside hospitals and at sports grounds in the UK under tighter restrictions being considered by ministers, according to leaked documents.

The measures are being proposed as part of a tougher version of the previous government’s tobacco and vapes bill, which would prohibit the sale of tobacco to people born on or after January 2009, the Sun reports.

Secret Whitehall papers confirmed plans to extend the indoor smoking ban, despite some opposition within government, the newspaper said.

It added that under the proposals lighting up would also be banned at open-air spaces at clubs and restaurants, and pavements next to both, as well as outside universities, children’s play areas and small parks.

Ministers could also target vapers as well as shisha bars, it said. The restrictions will not cover private homes or large open spaces, such as parks, or streets.

The tobacco and vapes bill was introduced in parliament earlier this year but fell when the general election was called. Last month’s king’s speech promised to reintroduce legislation to increase progressively the age at which people can buy cigarettes, though it made no mention of an outdoor ban.

Dr Layla McCay, the director of policy at the NHS Confederation, said she was “heartened” to see progress being made on abolishing smoking.

She told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “I’m obviously in favour of measures that help abolish smoking. We have seen from the previous government – and from this current government and indeed from wider society – this strong commitment to move towards abolishing smoking.

“It is absolutely the health challenge of our time. It’s the leading cause of preventable illness in the UK, so we are heartened to see that progress is being made and that the intention is moving forward to really address one of Britain’s main drivers of health inequalities.”

She added: “Ultimately, all of these steps are steps in the same journey, which is towards a smoke-free future for Britain, reducing those health inequalities, reducing the huge problems that are caused to the individual and to society from smoking. So, it’s not surprising but in this journey there will be different types of decisions, and there will be hard decisions that need to be made.”

A spokesperson for the Department of Health and Social Care said: “We do not comment on leaks. Smoking claims 80,000 lives a year, puts huge pressure on our NHS, and costs taxpayers billions. We are determined to protect children and non-smokers from the harms of second-hand smoking. We’re considering a range of measures to finally make Britain smoke-free.”

In 2007, under the Labour government, smoking in enclosed public places and workplaces was made illegal across the UK.

According to the charity Action on Smoking (Ash), in the year after the introduction of smoke-free laws there was a 2.4% reduction in hospital admissions for heart attacks in England, resulting in 12,000 fewer admissions to hospitals, which saved the NHS £8.4m in a year.

In the first year after the introduction of the indoor smoking ban there was a 12.3% reduction in hospital admissions for childhood asthma, equivalent to 6,803 fewer admissions over three years.

Kate Nicholls, the chief executive of the trade group UKHospitality, said any plans to ban smoking in some outdoor areas could affect economic growth.

She told the Today programme: “This is not without economic harm, and it’s not without economic cost to businesses that are providing outside areas for smokers and non-smokers, and also vapers, because I note in some of the reports there’s suggestions that vaping in outside areas could also be restricted.

“So this needs to be thought through very carefully before we damage businesses and economic growth and jobs.”

The Reform UK leader, Nigel Farage, told the Sun: “It’ll be the end of pubs.”

The Conservative party leadership hopeful Robert Jenrick told the newspaper: “The last thing this country needs is thousands more pubs closing. Our country faces huge challenges. Why is Starmer focusing on this nonsense?”

The move has reportedly caused cabinet tensions, with memos showing the Department for Business and Trade fearing the financial cost to hospitality. Many landlords have been forced to close since the Covid crisis because of rising costs and taxes.

But Keir Starmer is said to have resolved to press ahead with the outdoor ban, with the backing of England’s chief medical officer, Prof Chris Whitty.

Stewart Wood, a former adviser to the former Labour prime minister Gordon Brown, told the BBC’s Newsnight: “There’s a difference between smoking outside and walking in a forest and smoking outside where there are large groups of people, particularly children, concentrated, like restaurants, like pub gardens, like football matches.”

Written by: Caroline Davies

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/29/smoking-could-be-banned-uk-pub-gardens-outdoor-restaurants

[BrightonCorgi]

UK should just cut the chase and ban all tobacco products period. That's what they seem to want. Why all the tip toeing? Confiscate all tobacco products outside of the home and ban importation of any tobacco product. It's eventually going to happen there. Why not get to it and move on if that's what they really want as a country.

[Puros Y Vino]

8 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

UK should just cut the chase and ban all tobacco products period. That's what they seem to want. Why all the tip toeing? Confiscate all tobacco products outside of the home and ban importation of any tobacco product. It's eventually going to happen there. Why not get to it and move on if that's what they really want as a country.

Canada has the same issue. They hate tobacco but love the taxes. Despite raising the taxes every year on them, the sales continue to climb. It has become so embarrassing that when Provincial and Federal governments issue annual reports on tax revenues, they removed the line item for Tobacco and lumped it in with Alcohol. The reason being that the number is increasing, not decreasing. Weed is the new tax cash cow for govt. And they're making it available in every form. Gummies, oils, raw for smoking, etc. Guess which form sells the best? The kind you smoke. So while they are trying cease "Smoking". The people still prefer this method of consumption whether it be tobacco or weed.

And when it comes to death stats. Those are seriously twisted as well. If a patient dies from "Condition A" and it's not related to smoking, but the patient has smoked in the past or recently, the death will be attributed to Tobacco. 

[Pigpen]

Whilst I can get the argument, as a smoker I avoid smoking near non smokers, but if you are sitting outside a restaurant, close to the road, which is common in London you'd be more likely to suffer from the traffic fumes as the cigar smoke. There is a hypocrisy in continuing to allow smoking if you cite the health concerns as a primary issue.

[SirVantes]

8 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

should just cut the chase and ban all tobacco products period

The anger at the apparent hypocrisy is understandable, but let's not cut off our noses to spite our faces, eh?   

And to a comment that often gets thrown into the conversation - "Haven't they learnt anything from Prohibition?" Maybe they have, and that's why they are doing it this way. Gradual creep, wait out a generation's demise, erode the glamour, increase the irritation factor for minds with shorter attention spans and tenacity. Maybe policy makers are not always as dumb as we like to paint them.

[BrightonCorgi]

How many of the tobacco laws are actually voted on by the people?

[BoliDan]

5 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How many of the tobacco laws are actually voted on by the people?

Raising tobacco tax is always voted on in my State, and of course always passes because the majority doesn't smoke. The banning in bars back in the 90s and 2000s, not so much. 

[SirVantes]

4 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How many of the tobacco laws are actually voted on by the people?

The same number as any non-tobacco law that does not get put to a referendum?  

[MrBirdman]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

How many of the tobacco laws are actually voted on by the people?

That’s the last thing you should want. Polls in the US over the last couple years consistently show popular support for much stricter controls on tobacco. 

[BrightonCorgi]

3 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

That’s the last thing you should want. Polls in the US over the last couple years consistently show popular support for much stricter controls on tobacco. 

Then maybe that is how it should go here too? Policies don't take into consider my own wants.

[MrBirdman]

3 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Then maybe that is how it should go here too? Policies don't take into consider my own wants.

Sometimes living in a barely functioning democracy has its benefits, I guess!

[ha_banos]

My cigars to me are, like the indigenous Cubans, a spiritual and religious ceremony. That I must partake outside my church, the pub or cafe.

Woke up.

[BrightonCorgi]

13 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Sometimes living in a barely functioning democracy has its benefits, I guess!

If it were up to me, I would let restaurants and bars decide their own smoking policies. Customers and community will decide if they want to patronize or not.

[SirVantes]

47 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

If it were up to me, I would let restaurants and bars decide their own smoking policies.  Customers and community will decide if they want to patronize or not.

I'm tempted to agree, but I wonder, would that power to be limited to smoking policies, or would the principle include policies governing certain other behaviour of the patrons? Say, kissing/touching your same-sex partner, wearing certain headgear, conversing audibly in certain languages (or not in certain languages)?

[Li Bai]

8 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

If it were up to me, I would let restaurants and bars decide their own smoking policies.  Customers and community will decide if they want to patronize or not.

Agreed. In the early 2000's in Portugal, there were bars where smoking was banned and others where it was allowed, you could tell by a sign on the front door and I think it was how it should be. Didn't last though.

[BrightonCorgi]

18 hours ago, SirVantes said:

I'm tempted to agree, but I wonder, would that power to be limited to smoking policies, or would the principle include policies governing certain other behaviour of the patrons? Say, kissing/touching your same-sex partner, wearing certain headgear, conversing audibly in certain languages (or not in certain languages)?

I guess why not for most of it outside of essential businesses like grocery, pharmacy, etc...If a business is "in the business" of turning away patrons; best of luck to them. 

[SCgarman]

19 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

That’s the last thing you should want. Polls in the US over the last couple years consistently show popular support for much stricter controls on tobacco. 

Primarily to keep tobacco/vape products out of the hands of minors. I think if a poll was conducted about adults who wish to buy/consume cigars in cigar lounges/ at home most pollsters would not have any problems with it. Even the majority of the non-smoking public know cigars are enjoyed by many in moderation, used for a celebratory occasion and have no hostility towards them. I can't stand cigarettes (the smell/butts thrown on the ground), but far be it from me to wag my finger at those who choose to smoke them.