Hong Kong - recent visit

[EasternPromises]

I was in Hong Kong last week for a combination of both personal and business reasons. I spent a total of 10 days in Hong Kong and so had the opportunity to visit a few favorite haunts and to also check out the current state of cigars, watches and the general mood / atmosphere in the +852. I know quite a few members visit HK and / or hold the city in some level of esteem so i thought it would be worthwhile sharing an update:

China Club

China Club is a private members’ only club in the main Central district of HK, housed within the historic Old Bank of China Building (not to be confused with the new Bank of China building which is right next door). China Club was founded by Sir David Tang who also founded everyone’s favorite cigar distributor, PCC; the fashion brand, Shanghai Tang; and the upmarket restaurant group (almost called it a chain but that would be doing it a disservice), China Tang. While Sir David Tang founded China Club, i’m unsure if his company / family still own it. For those who have never been, China Club is a somewhat kitchsy, tongue-in-cheek homage to the glory days of 1930s Shanghai (when it was called the Paris of the East). Lots of weird and wacky Chinese photos, art and sculptures - think red army, CCP, Mao, etc. It sounds like it shouldn’t work but there is a certain charm to it.

A group of 8 of us were having dinner at China Club and so met for a few drinks beforehand at the Long March Bar (did i say tongue-in-cheek?). On a Friday evening at 6pm, all the banquette and low tables were full and so we posted up at the bar. Service as always was excellent and the bartenders made you feel like you were old friends who had lost touch. The lads left the ladies at the bar and headed out to the balcony located just off the Library. The Balcony has sweeping views of the HK city skyline including the iconic HSBC building (designed by Norman Foster), Lippo Centre (formerly Bond Tower and owned by Alan Bond), Cheung Kong Centre and a few other buildings. There is also a pocket view of HK harbor. If you want a more panoramic view of the harbour, however, there are other better viewing spots in the city. While it’s not the most “classic” view of HK, something about the balcony just works. Maybe part of it is nostalgia from some fond memories of afternoons and evenings on the balcony with mates powering through a steady procession of drinks courtesy of the waiters and prompt table service, or maybe it’s just something about the view and the feeling like you’re standing at the top of the mountain in one of the greatest cities in the world.

Heading back to the Long March Bar, i realised there was a tower humidor parked next to the entrance to the bar. The tower was loaded with the usual suspects: D4s, Monte 2s, CoRo etc. There was also notably two 50 cabs of the Punch Sir David RE. I checked the price and it was HKD1,500 per stick (USD192). Obviously not an insignificant amount of money but also on the other hand… for a RE double corona at a members’ club in HK for a stick named after one of the cigar world’s great bon vivants… not totally unreasonable? (Particularly when i recall i paid USD100 for an overhumidified Short Churchill in Bangkok a month earlier.)

After dinner, we went downstairs for dinner at the main dining room. We ordered a number of dishes most of which I forget (it was a fairly heavy night!) but what i do recall and what was memorable was the Peking duck (no need to pre-order unlike some other restaurants in the city), the prawn toast and the hand-pulled noodle soup. It’s not the best Cantonese food in HK but the service and the atmosphere was great. On this Friday evening, it was almost a full house and the dining room was fairly pumping with both diners and the live band. 

Overall, a great evening at the China Club. After dinner, we kicked on to a few bars in the new-ish Tai Kwun district. ‘Twas a late finish (as most good nights out in HK are!).

Cigars

I had the opportunity to visit 4-5 of the PCC retailers across HK including the locations in Central, Wanchai, Causeway Bay and TST. As to be expected, prices were eye-watering and unlike some other cities there were no anomalously-priced “bargain” cigars like you may find in other cities around Asia (e.g. in Vietnam, Punch Short de Punch are priced similar to Euro prices, in Singapore LGC MdO4 are also similar to Euro prices, etc). Every humidor i visited was fairly well-stocked both with the global marcas but also some of the lesser names - every store had several boxes of Dip 2s, i saw one box of Sancho Panza Belicosos, quite a few store had boxes of Non Plus and the ERDM Royal Series. Also a fair number of RyJ Linea de Oro boxes (everything but Nobles) and Monte 1935 (mostly Dumas).

I questioned the store staff and most said that business has not been great which perhaps speaks to the general mood around HK which is fairly downbeat. Speaking to clients in the finance / banking the mood was also fairly grim.

Watches

Being somewhat of a watch head, i checked out a few of the used watch stores around HK, mostly in the Mong Kok and Yau Ma Tei districts. Prices were fairly attractive (again speaking to the general mood in HK). As anyone who’s been to HK knows, it is the land of the Rolexes and every store had lots of new and used stock and from what i saw prices were 10-20% off pandemic / immediately post-pandemic levels. 

One thing i learned while in HK is that many of the HK-based stores that you see in Chrono24 are really just fronts. Most of the stock in these stores are sourced from the mainland and if you want to view the stock while in HK, you need to give them 3 days notice so that they can bring it over the border. Caveat emptor.

Overall, great to be back in HK. While the mood is not great, it’s still a fantastic city lot so great restaurants and bars (most of which are currently struggling). Well worth a trip though not if you’re looking to pick up cigars!

[chasy]

Great write up!

[BrightonCorgi]

7 hours ago, EasternPromises said:

One thing i learned while in HK is that many of the HK-based stores that you see in Chrono24 are really just fronts. Most of the stock in these stores are sourced from the mainland and if you want to view the stock while in HK, you need to give them 3 days notice so that they can bring it over the border. Caveat emptor.

It's like that in the US with many Chrono24 stores for new watches. They advertise the watch and then go get it after the order. Many times the warranty card has already been stamped and it could've stamped a year plus earlier depending the model. It's still a new watch and legit.

When I worked in Singapore, watch stores may take hours to days to get the watch of interest if it was not physically in the store.

[EasternPromises]

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

It's like that in the US with many Chrono24 stores for new watches. They advertise the watch and then go get it after the order. Many times the warranty card has already been stamped and it could've stamped a year plus earlier depending the model. It's still a new watch and legit.

When I worked in Singapore, watch stores may take hours to days to get the watch of interest if it was not physically in the s

Yep, a common practice in a few markets. I think the issue here is that they are sourcing stock from China and so there is a heightened issue of authenticity and provenance particularly given many of the watches are sold without boxes or papers.

 

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, EasternPromises said:

Yep, a common practice in a few markets. I think the issue here is that they are sourcing stock from China and so there is a heightened issue of authenticity and provenance particularly given many of the watches are sold without boxes or papers.

Have their been instances of an AD selling counterfeit new watches in HK? New watch must have all associated packaging.

Used watches is a whole different ball game. Especially the way watches are displayed in those markets. A rickety looking stall/store with millions in watches in a simple display are quite common.

[El Presidente]

What a fantastic review of one of my favourite cities in the world. 

I will be back again toward the end of 2024. My May visit mirrored yours in the perception of how challenging it is currently on the retail front. 

[EasternPromises]

6 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Have their been instances of an AD selling counterfeit new watches in HK? New watch must have all associated packaging.

Used watches is a whole different ball game. Especially the way watches are displayed in those markets. A rickety looking stall/store with millions in watches in a simple display are quite common.

Not that I'm aware of but there have reportedly been instances where ADs have sold more desirable stock to grey market dealers who are willing to also take on more undesirable pieces as a bundle. For example - I'll take your ladies Datejusts and white gold Day Dates if you also sell me your Submarines and GMTs. These grey market dealers then resell these new stock at a markup.

The next time you're in HK, go checkout the ground floor of Causeway Bay Plaza.

[EasternPromises]

12 hours ago, El Presidente said:

What a fantastic review of one of my favourite cities in the world. 

I will be back again toward the end of 2024. My May visit mirrored yours in the perception of how challenging it is currently on the retail front. 

I'll hopefully be making another trip in November/December. Winter in HK is superb.

To add on the retail front - - from what I've been told, the demographics/socio-economic level of the visitors coming over the border from the north have changed significantly. Less the type who stay at the St Regis, dine at Petrus/Caprice and spend thousands at LV and Gucci. More the type who are leaving the motherland for the first time and are keen to take photos of the Peak Tram and Repulse Bay and eat street food in Mongkok.

Speaking to my tailor, he told me that most of their long-time, repeat customers from the US and Europe have stopped coming to HK (all the travel advisories have not been helpful). While they still get the occasional remote/email order from these customers, business has dried up significantly and so they are much more reliant on local, HK-based customers.

All of these headwinds are being reflected in asset prices whether it's real estate or watches. Cigars oddly enough seem immune... At least for the moment.

[Fuzz]

20 hours ago, EasternPromises said:

I'll hopefully be making another trip in November/December. Winter in HK is superb.

I remember roasted chestnuts from street vendors in HK during the winter months. Miss those.

[Marco_011t556]

Very nice and detailed write up. Hong Kong is the land of Rolex because without vat, sales tax etc. for cigars, the price is mostly influenced by the tax increased by ”smart” policymakers. Sad for this.

[SCgarman]

What does that say about the current state of Cuban cigars when Habanos has pegged their price structure around Hong Kong prices, and it seems the cigar market there is "stagnant". I'm fairly sure not every cigar smoker in HK is a multi-millionaire or richer. But yet, prices continue to increase several times a year. 

[SUP8333]

Make sure to walk in to some rolex boutiques, I've managed to get a yachtmaster, submariner and couple of datejusts at retail over the years! Definitely not the new fancy 2024 designs but they do get good stock. 

 

[EasternPromises]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:32 PM, SCgarman said:

What does that say about the current state of Cuban cigars when Habanos has pegged their price structure around Hong Kong prices, and it seems the cigar market there is "stagnant". I'm fairly sure not every cigar smoker in HK is a multi-millionaire or richer. But yet, prices continue to increase several times a year. 

@SCgarman Indeed. HK has always been a voracious market for cigars, both from local consumers and also for Mainland visitors coming across the border. Currently, it seems neither demographic are buying cigars. Interesting also to see so many “sales” / “promotions” on Cubans across various online cigar merchants. I doubt we will ever see retail prices return to pre-pandemic levels but perhaps some of these discounts (particularly on Cohiba and Trinidad) might start becoming “standard” / semi-permanent in order to move stock?