Hello, a little diatribe and question from an old FriendOH

[zeedubbya]

Just wanted to drop a note here, haven’t been active in quite some time but doesn’t mean I haven’t been lurking. I still enjoy catching up with the goings on here and seeing some old familiar people and some new.  

I do want to first say I am forever grateful I somehow managed to snag a lifetime worth of stock before these prices which make me go, “oh wow, this is crazy and unsustainable.” Big thanks to the Lounge Lizards @LizardGizmo and friends for doing a great podcast for me to be motivated to jump back into the fray so to speak. I listened to the episode with Rob on talking about Dip2s rolled around the time of the Bushidos, EML (mid 2015), TOS (fall of 2015) and it made me want to make a post with a question.  
Three of us here in the Midwest are still chatting a lot about cigars we smoke and getting together when time allows, @JohnInCleveland  and @TheLandCC  to name my good friends. I sure do miss conversations with @PigFish, @Ethernut, @jsummers157 @airtrade @topdiesel and many many others though. 

Now to my question for the forum. I have been smoking the “uglies” in my singles collection for now and my special treat will be an occasional PLPC, Lusi, or Punch Punch from some 50 Cabs I hoarded in 2013-2016. It’s been a godforsaken shame when I just can’t bring myself to smoke that Monte 80th I adore because I see them going for north of $100 a stick. Or a Monte Sublimes which goes for more, or a Cohiba 1966…more yet. Smoking a $200 cigar is just insanity to me, always has been, regardless of where I am at in my career. Burning bundles of dead leaves someone else will pay $200 for IS NUTS. So what is to become of people who ACTUALLY smoke cigars? I would really like to know-who else is out here like me? Are you not smoking some of your premiums you’ve held onto because burning $100 bill just seems wrong? I am fully prepared to get “just smoke them, life is short” or a “nice humblebrag wanker,” but this isn’t my intention. I want to know— what’s your strategy? Burn without regard, keep on holding and see what happens, or let them go and grab up something else you know you enjoy? Where do you stand with this? I am genuinely curious.  

Cheers to all! 
Z

**Oh and special shout out to @ATGroom I AM just blown away by your book(s)!  Such incredible work and so so worth the wait! 

[El Presidente]

Great to see you Z. I hope you have been well! 

[Chibearsv]

The way I figure it, I bought them, I own them. They're just cigars, so when I want one, I smoke one. I don't even consider what they cost now except to know I probably won't be replacing them. 

[Hammer Smokin']

When I burn a nice stick I feel like it's a f*** you to the parties to be. I know I'm never replacing them, as they aren't worth the cost. So it's almost a bit of a weight off the shoulder. I used to love smoking cigars knowing I'm going to replace, and the excitement that comes with it. Now that feeling is gone, as is my love for Cuban cigars. 

Cuba should be proud. 

[Domsday]

You decided what they were worth to you when you bought them, based on that smoke ‘em and given that you said you had a lifetime’s supply you don’t have to worry about replacing them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Puros Y Vino]

I find myself in the same predicament. I'm staring at some very valuable boxes, such as various 2011 BHK's, Cohiba 1966, 10+ YO CoLa's etc. I know what they're worth, which is well over what I paid when released. For now, I'm taking the stance of smoking some for special occasions and holding off on several in case I feel like turning them to cash. Given that partial boxes do well on BR too, it's not a bad strategy. I get to enjoy the cigars I bought, because I enjoy them, with the possibility of turning some of that stock into $$'s. The market forces has also lead me to smoke cigars from my stash I don't usually reach for. And I've been pleasantly surprised by some "Cheapies" in my inventory. I'm looking at you Quintero Petit Quintero! 😝 In short. Enjoy them yourself. Whether it be smoking some or selling some. The spoils are yours.

[BrightonCorgi]

I have to admit the price increases have made me a little gun shy smoking the fancy stuff. To know that those sealed boxes of SWs, Cohibas, etc, could be a down payment on my next car or buy a fancy watch does give me a pause. It's not like I was going crazy smoking them when they were more affordable. 10-15 years later, they're still sitting there unopened.

 

[Fugu]

I am not selling my house just because market tells me it’s worth now triple of when I bought it. I do live there. Same with my cigars.

Look at it this way: Count yourself blessed in that you were able to acquire your ‘1966’ et al. at primary market pricing, and do enjoy them for what they are. Your decision of course, and sure, if you think you would have better use for that money, sell. As well might sell off what you’re likely not going to/able to smoke anyway in your lifetime. But (you should have) no remorse burning a top-tier and well-aged stick from your collection. And no better provenance than what “vintage” has been maturing under one’s own TLC.

[MagicalBikeRide]

Anything special is either smoked or in line to be smoked. I consider myself lucky I bought them when I did. 

[zeedubbya]

Love the advice from here as always. Level headed people offering non-offensive advice. The best. Other hobbies could do to see how this one operates. Appreciate all the great stories.  

I was looking back through some stock last night and remembering some of the generous gifts from people. Do people still do this with each other? Send out “mailbox bombs?” A few members here went OVER THE TOP with stuff. Really. I’m sure some of these cigars they sent me are now into the 4 figures of value. A member here once sent me an entire box of Siglo 2 when they were hard to find- expecting nothing in return. @PigFish helped patiently walk me through setting up an amazing humidity system for my humidor. Another member randomly sent me 10 sticks of BCE out of the blue one time, another one some 1990s stock which was jaw dropping. And @Habana Mike (Rest in Peace) sending me some VERY generous cigars when I was new including some SP Eslavos. I really hope this is still going on.  

[ChanceSchmerr]

@zeedubbya Great to see you back online!  I've been similarly absent, trying to get back into the group when I can.

To answer your most recent question - I believe people are still showing the generosity you mentioned. I tend to over-pack when it comes to cigars when I travel, and share readily with friends and strangers alike when the cigars come out, without expectation of recompense (last month I was in Kentucky and Nashville for a birthday trip, I gave some Party Presidentes to my servers at the cigar bar in Lexington - the joy on their face is just a golden feeling). I've also made trades in the last few years where people went above and beyond with extras (a certain gentleman in Philly comes to mind). So it does still happen. I feel like Cigar enthusiasts are some of the most generous and kind people out there - I say pay it forward and you'll never regret the joy you provide for others.

[loose_axle]

It's going to sound weird but cigars have always been crazy expensive in Aus, so I'll continue to buy that really expensive box of my favourite size and brand if I run out or don't have it, it just might be an every 3-4 years purchase now instead of every 6-12 months. I'm also lucky that I only smoke once a month or so, and a few boxes of 25 can really last me years. 

Another thing that has been awesome has been BR. Picked up some great deals/ hard to find items there. 

Cigars are something I just know I love and won't give up no matter the price. I love collecting them, looking over the collection, talking about them and smoking them. I know one day I have to purchase one of those exxy S T Dupont lighter. Worth it? Probably not. But I love the look of them and it keeps me sane having this hobby and crazy goals in a crazy world and I just put away a small bit of my pay each fortnight and only spend that when it's there. 

[Boss Hog]

10 hours ago, Fugu said:

I am not selling my house just because market tells me it’s worth now triple of when I bought it. I do live there. Same with my cigars.

Look at it this way: Count yourself blessed in that you were able to acquire your ‘1966’ et al. at primary market pricing, and do enjoy them for what they are. Your decision of course, and sure, if you think you would have better use for that money, sell. As well might sell off what you’re likely not going to/able to smoke anyway in your lifetime. But (you should have) no remorse burning a top-tier and well-aged stick from your collection. And no better provenance than what “vintage” has been maturing under one’s own TLC.

Could not have said it better myself.

And to quote a very good friend of mine:

”We buy to ash, not to cash.” 

[TheDonTX]

Got lucky getting into CC’s pre-covid. Will I ever replace my CPEs or Sir Winnies and others? Prob not. I'm smoking 'em all! Have traded some but smoking everything I have. I couldn't live not knowing if a box I held for years was great or not. When they are gone we will see where the market is and go from there. 

[raggie]

Cool to see another midwesterner round these parts!

Others above have spoken their minds quite nicely. Just like any other hobby, this is more of a personal collection and relaxation/stress reduction thing for me. If you’re after a profit, I wouldnt say this is an ideal avenue…

What would you spend your profits on? Another hobby? Improving your house? You’ll never see these cigars at this price again. It’s up to you to weigh the profit vs camaraderie.

[zeedubbya]

18 hours ago, raggie said:

Cool to see another midwesterner round these parts!

Others above have spoken their minds quite nicely. Just like any other hobby, this is more of a personal collection and relaxation/stress reduction thing for me. If you’re after a profit, I wouldnt say this is an ideal avenue…

What would you spend your profits on? Another hobby? Improving your house? You’ll never see these cigars at this price again. It’s up to you to weigh the profit vs camaraderie.

I was hoping someone would bring up this point, because it’s important. The idea of accumulating money is not the point - never has been. I realized many years ago, realizing a profit on a hobby item is a fleeting happiness. You are dead nuts correct, “this is not an ideal venue.” However, the idea of putting flame to a tube of rotted leaves which are at a certain price level goes against my nature as I can see it does others as well. Must be a “how I was raised” thing. I’ve never had this problem with food, but also expensive food never appreciated so dramatically in price or in replacement cost. Never looked at a steak in the fridge or at a restaurant and thought—maybe I should hold onto this for a few years and it’ll be more valuable. Never thought when eating 6oz of Miyazaki A5 (sp.)— I’ll never be able to get this again for this price, maybe I should not consume it. It’s an odd paradox.  

So I will continue to smoke my ugly beat up cigars and keep checking on the “rare” ones to make sure they are aging well and maybe one of these days I’ll get up the fortitude to burn a $200 replacement value cigar.  I’m not interested in financial gain, but I am torn with consuming something with such a high value/replacement cost. Surely, some day, some sanity will come back and we might be able to buy D4 for $10-$12 again, and that will be good enough to replace the few big $ rarities I sent up in smoke. If not, oh well.  At least I’ll know, and I’ll have the experience to reflect on.  

[archosaur]

Nice to see you posting Z! In the exact same boat with you here, but at least for me I find I am getting better and better at just not caring. One thing I enjoy is giving out valuable cigars to some of my buddies who are blissfully unaware of the current price tag, and listening to their unaffected reviews. Especially when they trash some completely overvalued wad of old tobacco!

Sent from my SM-S921U using Tapatalk

[GVan]

Since you asked what the strategy is .....

Probably like you, I was lucky enough to get into this hobby in a bigger way about 2018 when cigar prices were relatively "reasonable".  I still remember people saying cigar prices were high in 2018!  Been smoking cigars for 30+ years but didn't start collecting until much later when I caught the CC bug.  I'm the type that always does a lot of research into anything that I get into - so, kept logs on flavors, prices, box codes (when you could still request them) and eventually all went into a spreadsheet as the collection grew.  

I remember vividly buying my first box of Lusis in 2019 and thinking I just paid approximately the same as what 4 boxes of Boli CJ's cost (remember the two box deals) - how crazy.  What I ended up doing was creating a column in the spreadsheet for how much I actually paid for each box (total cost plus shipping and tax) and then a second column for how much each cigar cost.  That allowed me to rationalize what I was spending down to a "calculated average cost per cigar".  While I did buy a few boxes of special cigars, LCDH and Regionals, I mostly kept to regular production.

Thus, when I have family or a friend over and let them pick whatever they want out of the "Ready to Smoke" humidor, I remind myself that no matter what they or I pick from the 3527 cigars  in the collection -- each one was purchased at an average cost of $8.80 per cigar.  At one point this number was about $7 / cigar but recent purchases have pushed this number up slightly.  Yes, some cigars were >$18 per cigar but these are offset by some of my favorites - as an example, RGP's were only $2.40 per cigar (I bought 10 boxes of these in 2021).  Some may think this strategy and thought process is foolish.  I think of the differing flavors and pleasure I get out of each cigar and not what they cost.  Honestly, I get just as much enjoyment out of smoking a great PLPC, RGP, BCJ, P Short, SCdlH Principe, Warped Cloud Hopper 53, Tatuaje Black Label Petit Lancero, Nudie (relatively reasonable boxes) as I get out of my Luis's, Monte 2's, JL1's, Padron 26's, Casdaglis, BBF's, Dip 2's, HUP 46's, Punch Punch, RA LCDH, Punch 48's, Sancho Panza Belis (more expensive boxes). 

In reality, more important than the initial purchase cost, is the time and patience devoted to this hobby for the cigars to reach optimum smoking condition.  Every cigar is a little different and sometimes > than 7 years of ideal storage conditions is required (CC and NC).  I find harder still is waiting the 30, 60 or 120 days from ROTT -- I want to try one immediately!  For my smoking choices, time tends to be a bigger deciding factor than price.  Meaning my special cigar picks in my rotation tend to be the older ones.  For example, my MSU-NOV-18 Monte 2's are probably one of the best smoking cigars in the collection right now and reserved for when I have 2+ hours that I can focus and enjoy the exquisite flavors.

So, for me, every cigar in my collection is an approximate $9 cigar, no matter what I pick to smoke!  That's my strategy.  Thanks for asking @zeedubbya.

[Capn_Jackson]

Hey there @zeedubbya, been nice to chat with ya the last couple of days.

I feel the same way, though I only have a few of those unicorns. On one hand, I’m sure some of us have a stick or two we could trade to the right person, for a box of 25 nice petit coronas. On the other, some of these points made above, by those wiser than me, make an awful lot of sense. Dead, dry leaves that were purchased however long ago, for a cost we thought was worth toasting and torching. Even just a few years ago, I got a box of BBF for a friend’s 40th birthday. The idea of buying a box of BBF for a birthday now, seems ludicrous. I bought two boxes of Punch Shorts in 2021 for a grand total of…$140. For the pair. Some of those sticks are still sitting there, because the thought of running out pains me. Some I don’t quite feel the same about, less precious to me.

[topdiesel]

Zane,

Good to see you back in the forum. I was just thinking (wondering) about you and some of the other members from the past decade and some of the great members we lost during that time period.  

We got in on a ton of those splits back in the old day, so I have quite the singles tub to get through as well. Unlike most of the members on this forum who love variety, my palate and limited time to smoke, pulls me toward the same smokes again and again. Lots of boxes gathering dust and prices are astronomical. I don't see anything wrong with selling at fair market value on Bond Roberts or elsewhere if that's your thing. 

Making a profit is nice, but it also allows selling some stock that you won't ever smoke in order to pick up some cigars (now vintage and more expensive) you know you will love. I won't be selling any of my Boli regular production or customs collection (Puntillas are perfection-thanks Prez and Alex), but there are plenty of others that won't make the cut. If that is because your palate changed, you never really liked them, or they are just simply worth too much to enjoy. Why not sell?  

Fugu, with retirement a few years away, selling the overpriced house and moving to a lower cost locale will happen for sure. Not exactly what you meant, but the same applies to all things, even cigars. If selling your house or cigars allows the dream to continue in the next chapter, then do it.  

[cigaraholic]

My strategy👻…is to not run out of CC’s. I love smoking Cuban tobacco and I’m easy to please. I don’t need to smoke something fancy, but I want to smoke something. When I think of one of my aged boxes of BHK I see 3 or 4 cabs of RASS. Time and my health will guide my smoking decision.

[ChanceSchmerr]

@topdiesel! Good to see you back on the boards as well, John. Brings a smile to know some of the guys I remember but hadn't seen in a while are still out there too.

[airtrade]

@zeedubbya still lurking now and then. Smoking less and less these days, unfortunately forced to.

I don't have too much of a problem smoking any sticks but I keep realizing I will never get through them all. 

Selling a few here and there its hard to find a happy medium on pricing. Too low and you get flippers too high you get called all kinds of lovely things!

Good to see some old names!