How much Tax is too much?

[KCCubano]

1 hour ago, teamrandr said:

We all agree they need our tax money.   We are unable to come to an agreement on what it should be spent on.

You hit the nail on the head!

[PuroDiario]

20 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

The government does go for the middle class as their main source of income. Messing with billionaires are smoke & mirrors, political theater. 

Sounds great to "take from the rich", but the rich are their source of election finance and anything underhanded that politicians do. 

In the US at least, a fair amount of Congressperson's time is spent calling donors for contributions. The more you can bring in for your party, the more the party gives you for your re-election campaign.

Yes, but the rich class, which comes in many flavors and scales and subject the generalization I’m about to make, employs individually through their holdings dozens to hundreds of thousands of people directly, and create further more indirect jobs and economic activity around it to many degrees of separation. So there is a flaw in the argument that the rich should pay. More so, capital compounds faster than labor that’s physics, and the rich class took another basic economic principle to heart “time preference” meaning they built a boat with all the risks, investment and deferral of gratification it implies to go fish with nets and by many instead of go with the rod by the shore. Why should that be punished or their children should be paying for that. Same logic of you don’t chose where you are born applies not only to unfavorable circumstances but also to favorable ones. Your point on Congresspersons and the political system I see eye to eye with you, but again points to the flawed system that gives birth to the excessive taxation and the mismanagement of the public budgets more than the evilness of “the rich”. I’ll quote Von Misses again, and say sorry for the pedantry:

“Nothing is more calculated to make a demagogue popular than a constantly reiterated demand for heavy taxes on the rich. Capital levies and high income taxes on the larger incomes are extraordinarily popular with the masses, who do not have to pay them.”

[Fireball]

For me - I have found that the more money I have made, the more ways I find to minimize what I pay in taxes. 

I find it interesting that here in the US, people always talk about the greatest times for the middle class being in the 1950s-1960s. Same time as some of the highest taxes on upper earners in the nations history. 

[Li Bai]

7 hours ago, PuroDiario said:

"Nothing is more calculated to make a demagogue popular than a constantly reiterated demand for heavy taxes on the rich. Capital levies and high income taxes on the larger incomes are extraordinarily popular with the masses, who do not have to pay them.”

Of course that's right, I don't believe in heavy taxes on the rich, I would even agree with a lower tax rate as it would mean a lot of money anyway. 

But them avoiding paying their fair share is unacceptable. Now I don't think we would all agree on what that "fair share" part is.

[BettyHumpder]

Some pretty loose interpretations of the American revolution in this thread. Yeeesh. It had less to do with taxes, in principle, than it did with colonists having no say in the laws and economic policies in the colonies. The vast majority did not want war and revolution. They wanted to be treated as equals.

The anti-tax movement in America, as we know it today, is not centuries old. It's decades old. I would recommend for further reading: The Permanent Tax Revolt

The long and short of it is that people in the 1970s began a widespread, grassroots movement to protest their property taxes. During the great depression and the years following, many jurisdictions limited or exempted properties from taxes because of economic hardship or preferred class (war veterans, especially). Eventually politicians realized that "I'm going to cut your taxes" was a cheat code to get people to vote for them. So they grabbed onto that and held on for dear life for the last 40 years.

How much is too much tax? Hell if I know. I pay my bill and move on with my life. If I see a problem with services that I rely on or observe, I send an email to my city councillor and let them know how I feel. Then I vote. Not much else to be done and whining about, it doesn't help anyone.

[Nevrknow]

14 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Or the care that should be taken before spending it.  Those of us in business realize how precious our capital is and we take great care on creating efficiencies to utilize it effectively.  Otherwise, we're just pissing it away.

Like this? 😂

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2021/09/30/1_million_study_by_university_of_kentucky_japanese_quail_did_coke_had_risky_sex_796060.html#!

[VivaLosFatman]

17 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

My issue with this entire subject is the ridiculous inefficiencies and corruption involved in government management of tax allocation.  If government was rated similar to charities, based on percentage of revenue dollars that reach entitlement targets, what would that number be?  For charities, I pass if less than 80% of my donation reaches the target.  I'd guess government entitlement money is closer to 25% or maybe much less... if I wasn't forced to, I certainly wouldn't donate.  That's the worst part.  I agree there are people in need that should be helped, but there are too many snoots in the trough, even before the hungry get to eat.

 

That info is out in various ways. For instance, in the US, Social Security in 2023 was 1.4 trillion, with an estimated 1.1 trillion in primary beneficiary payments. That doesn't include child payments, SSSI, and a few others, and is already about 78,5%, near your charity mark of 80%. Government inefficiency comes from politics, the voters, and the politicians, not the direct management.

[Chibearsv]

5 hours ago, VivaLosFatman said:

That info is out in various ways. For instance, in the US, Social Security in 2023 was 1.4 trillion, with an estimated 1.1 trillion in primary beneficiary payments. That doesn't include child payments, SSSI, and a few others, and is already about 78,5%, near your charity mark of 80%. Government inefficiency comes from politics, the voters, and the politicians, not the direct management.

If those numbers are accurate for entitlements to beneficiaries, that's not nearly as bad as I imagined.