The largest counter-offensive since D Day. The Battle for the future of Trinidad begins

[El Presidente]

 

 

[El Presidente]

 

https://www.ft.com/content/b3552d75-a201-426e-a3db-7a35aed95229

[JohnS]

For those of us that aren't familiar with the history of Cuban cigars, this latest video by Kirby and the Financial Times article cited above is an example of media organisations propagating stories that are apocryphal in nature. In their defence, it takes a little work to put this all together but the tenets of journalism espouses objective research, right?

For starters, we can plainly see in Marvin Shenken's famous 1994 interview with Fidel Castro for Cigar Aficionado magazine that Castro doesn't even mention Trinidad cigars; instead, he refers to the Cohiba Coronas Especiales (from memory) as his favourite cigar. I'm short for time right now, and I'm confident others will weigh in (on this) but in general, Trinidad wasn't even thought of until the early 1990s. Yet here we are, another example of the Cuban Cigar Industry pushing forth this agenda of Trinidad's mystical, de luxe aura and history surrounding its brand for marketing purposes, when you simply must question its existence in the first place.

[El Presidente]

7 minutes ago, JohnS said:

For starters, we can plainly see in Marvin Shenken's famous 1994 interview with Fidel Castro for Cigar Aficionado magazine that Castro doesn't even mention Trinidad cigars; instead, he refers to the Cohiba Coronas Especiales (from memory) as his favourite cigar. I'm short for time right now, and I'm confident others will weigh in (on this) but in general, Trinidad wasn't even thought of until the early 1990s. Yet here we are, another example of the Cuban Cigar Industry pushing forth this agenda of Trinidad's mystical, de luxe aura and history surrounding its brand for marketing purposes, when you simply must question its existence in the first place.

 

......"alternative facts" John....."alternative facts" 

[Chitmo]

7 minutes ago, JohnS said:

For those of us that aren't familiar with the history of Cuban cigars, this latest video by Kirby and the Financial Times article cited above is an example of media organisations propagating stories that are apocryphal in nature. In their defence, it takes a little work to put this all together but the tenets of journalism espouses objective research, right?

For starters, we can plainly see in Marvin Shenken's famous 1994 interview with Fidel Castro for Cigar Aficionado magazine that Castro doesn't even mention Trinidad cigars; instead, he refers to the Cohiba Coronas Especiales (from memory) as his favourite cigar. I'm short for time right now, and I'm confident others will weigh in (on this) but in general, Trinidad wasn't even thought of until the early 1990s. Yet here we are, another example of the Cuban Cigar Industry pushing forth this agenda of Trinidad's mystical, de luxe aura and history surrounding its brand for marketing purposes, when you simply must question its existence in the first place.

Nice to know, I generally avoid anything with Kirby in it but now I’m curious what new heights of bull shit have occurred! 

[Shakey]

3 hours ago, JohnS said:

For those of us that aren't familiar with the history of Cuban cigars, this latest video by Kirby and the Financial Times article cited above is an example of media organisations propagating stories that are apocryphal in nature. In their defence, it takes a little work to put this all together but the tenets of journalism espouses objective research, right?

For starters, we can plainly see in Marvin Shenken's famous 1994 interview with Fidel Castro for Cigar Aficionado magazine that Castro doesn't even mention Trinidad cigars; instead, he refers to the Cohiba Coronas Especiales (from memory) as his favourite cigar. I'm short for time right now, and I'm confident others will weigh in (on this) but in general, Trinidad wasn't even thought of until the early 1990s. Yet here we are, another example of the Cuban Cigar Industry pushing forth this agenda of Trinidad's mystical, de luxe aura and history surrounding its brand for marketing purposes, when you simply must question its existence in the first place.

For people who haven't read that part of the interview, the quote is: 

Shanken: Trinidad. We understand that it is a brand of cigar that is your own personal brand, which you give to diplomats and friends as presents.
Castro: No. I principally give Cohibas for presents.

Shanken: You don't give Trinidads?
Castro: No. I don't give Trinidads. I give Cohibas. [clipped discussion of new brands]

Shanken: The El Laguito factory has a brand called Trinidad, which they say is for you to give as personal gifts. It has become a legend.
Castro: I am not fully aware of that brand, but I assume it is like the Lancero in size from Cohiba.

Shanken: It is the same size, but with a little darker wrapper. Are you going to allow Cubatabaco to sell it?
Castro: I don't know about that cigar.

[mohammed.s.almutlaq11]

I think this one will collect dust as well.

[Elvis]

The only time I’ve ever heard of ‘diplomatic’ Trinidad’s was in this forum.

There is also some discussion in Min Ron Nee’s Encyclopedia (2nd edition) on page #473. Re: ‘Production as diplomatic gifts not available to the public’.

”Available in one size only, same as the Cohiba Lanceros, discontinued in 1997. The cigar had no commercial name.”

There's more of course, including an ‘interesting note’ that concludes with, ‘In short there’s no way to prove the authenticity of a box of “Diplomatic Trinidad”.

I have no reason to believe that Fidel ever gave out Trini’s as gifts. Why would he?

[BoliDan]

Ugh...just make more Fundies please. 

[Ford2112]

Hey it's quality craftsmanship and tradition.

[JohnS]

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

......"alternative facts" John....."alternative facts" 

Haha, well said!

11 hours ago, Chitmo said:

Nice to know, I generally avoid anything with Kirby in it but now I’m curious what new heights of bull shit have occurred! 

It's certainly not my intention to disparage Kirby because he's doing what he can to promote our culture, but when it comes to a subject like this, one would be better off reading our own @ATGroom's El Habano Moderno, for example. Alternatively, if someone like Laurent did a video on his Habanos News YouTube Channel on this topic, you'd know he'd aim to give more background to the issue of Trinidad's history.

[GerardMichaelTX]

Well this falls in line with the "Luxury Brand" narrative that Cuba is hoping to attract newer Cuban Cigar smokers. The price hikes for Trini are a little out of line IMO.

[BrightonCorgi]

Fundadores and Lancero are not the same size, FWIW.

[Chitmo]

5 hours ago, JohnS said:

Haha, well said!

It's certainly not my intention to disparage Kirby because he's doing what he can to promote our culture, but when it comes to a subject like this, one would be better off reading our own @ATGroom's El Habano Moderno, for example. Alternatively, if someone like Laurent did a video on his Habanos News YouTube Channel on this topic, you'd know he'd aim to give more background to the issue of Trinidad's history.

His enthusiastic attitude certain has some value, but when you have such a big soap box to stand on I’d argue accuracy is more important than his feelings about the criticism. 

[Jerryvonkramer]

20 hours ago, Shakey said:

For people who haven't read that part of the interview, the quote is: 

Shanken: Trinidad. We understand that it is a brand of cigar that is your own personal brand, which you give to diplomats and friends as presents.
Castro: No. I principally give Cohibas for presents.

Shanken: You don't give Trinidads?
Castro: No. I don't give Trinidads. I give Cohibas. [clipped discussion of new brands]

Shanken: The El Laguito factory has a brand called Trinidad, which they say is for you to give as personal gifts. It has become a legend.
Castro: I am not fully aware of that brand, but I assume it is like the Lancero in size from Cohiba.

Shanken: It is the same size, but with a little darker wrapper. Are you going to allow Cubatabaco to sell it?
Castro: I don't know about that cigar.

Ha ha ha ha ha

I am mindblown, I never questioned the marketing talk and assumed it was true. Amazing.

[El Presidente]

Part II

 

 

[ha_banos]

The Dr Joe episode/s on Cohiba history 

Also older write up

http://www.uk-cigars.co.uk/brand/trinidad.htm

 

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/the-tale-of-trinidad

Good job most new folk won't be aware.

 

 

[Fugu]

8 hours ago, ha_banos said:

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/the-tale-of-trinidad

Good job most new folk won't be aware.

Yep, good sum up. Here’s some further reading, some of what’s been cited there, from a time well before Trini went public (first issue of CA, and good original work by JS back in the day), with a bit more background from a production perspective.

While one can debate the quality of Trinidad over the course of its market existence, there is no question about the fact that Trinidad had been considered the top of the top even well before its commercial launch.

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/cubas-cohiba-7838

(scroll down to the Trinidad bit)

and also

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/terrific-trinidad-1727

[vinnyvega]

On 6/9/2024 at 8:50 AM, ha_banos said:

The Dr Joe episode/s on Cohiba history 

Also older write up

http://www.uk-cigars.co.uk/brand/trinidad.htm

 

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/the-tale-of-trinidad

Good job most new folk won't be aware.

Damn, Dr Joe!  Whatever happened to that dude?

[ha_banos]

13 minutes ago, vinnyvega said:

Damn, Dr Joe!  Whatever happened to that dude?

Quit for health reasons apparently. Went on to live a regular life.

[MrBirdman]

Kirby is really pulling for that Man of the Year award. 

[Ford2112]

Look I tried to like the guy but he's a dilettante and a charlatan. 

[VeguerosMAN]

On 6/9/2024 at 8:50 AM, ha_banos said:

The Dr Joe episode/s on Cohiba history Also older write up

http://www.uk-cigars.co.uk/brand/trinidad.htm

 

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/the-tale-of-trinidad

Good job most new folk won't be aware.

Used to watch his shows religiously way back in the day. 

It is painful to watch these episodes because I remember I used to buy Trinidad Reyes from the host back in 2017-2018 for less than $250 per box or sometimes less.  I also remember this site had the cheapest Trinidad Vigias. 

[SCgarman]

15 minutes ago, VeguerosMAN said:

It is painful to watch these episodes because I remember I used to buy Trinidad Reyes from the host back in 2017-2018 for less than $250 per box or sometimes less.  I also remember this site had the cheapest Trinidad Vigias. 

At one time they were $158/24ct box. Ask me how I know. 

[VeguerosMAN]

9 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

At one time they were $158/24ct box. Ask me how I know. 

Yes, I remember those days.