Cohiba Esplendidos

[HoyoDC]

Hi I purchased this box from private seller. The Cohiba Esplendido looks off and not high quality. Can this be ok? This is a 2023 box. Is this for sure a fake, or you would need to see the cigars?

thx…

[Puros Y Vino]

That picture isn't going to be of any help.  Post the serial#, the box code, the front, the back, the bottom, etc, etc.

[HoyoDC]

Ok, I will send tomorrow with cigar. Pics too. 

[HoyoDC]

Ok

[gormag38]

Unfortunately these are fake my friend. But definitely not the worst ones I've seen. 

The biggest tells (while not the only ones): 

Font and numbering on the SN on the green seal is wrong. Should not be a 23 box. 

The factory code is an old one. No longer used in 2023. 

If possible I'd try and get your money back. If that's not an option, I'd just chalk it up to a learned experience. 

[Puros Y Vino]

The serial # does check out. MAR is an El Laguito code. But I'm not sure if it's valid in 2023 as referenced above.

The box code font does look off, but that's expected. Not every factory uses the same stamps, though you'd expect the same factory to be consistent. I haven't bought boxes in a while and certainly not Cohiba's at the new prices, so I can't compare.

The cigars themselves look good. The bands, outer box, Habanos seal, leaf insert, etc. Placement is correct too.

The seal font and color shade do seem off. The zeros on the box presented are somewhat elongated in comparison to what is on CCW. The green is also darker and muddy. But that could be a photo quality issue.

Take a higher quality picture of the warranty seal. Maybe even scan it if possible.

If these are indeed fakes, the quality is very good and that's scary.

Let's see what others have to say.

 

[HoyoDC]

14 hours ago, gormag38 said:

Unfortunately these are fake my friend. But definitely not the worst ones I've seen. 

The biggest tells (while not the only ones): 

Font and numbering on the SN on the green seal is wrong. Should not be a 23 box. 

The factory code is an old one. No longer used in 2023. 

If possible I'd try and get your money back. If that's not an option, I'd just chalk it up to a learned experience. 

So no way, a manufacturer mistake?  That doesn’t happen, correct?

[gormag38]

1 hour ago, HoyoDC said:

So no way, a manufacturer mistake?  That doesn’t happen correct. 

Not that I have ever seen. MAR was no longer used as a box code after JAN or FEB of 22. So that fact alone would make me believe they're fake. But then you add in the weird font with the incorrect serial number; just is too many coincidences. A box starting in 000050 should be a 2020 box if I'm not mistaken. 

[jfestrelabr]

" A box starting in 000050 should be a 2020"

A good point

[gormag38]

13 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

If these are indeed fakes, the quality is very good and that's scary.

Indeed it is, quite scary. The cigars/caps looks pretty damn good imo. 

Also, @HoyoDC, by chance do you have a UV light? If so, I'd be interested in seeing pictures of the UV seal on the green seal as well as the bands. (While these measures have been successfully copied by forgers before, I'd still be interested in seeing what your box has). 

 

[Arabian]

Is the lettering supposed to be printed? This looks like someone took a hammer and a chisel.

 

 

 

[Arabian]

10 hours ago, gormag38 said:

Indeed it is, quite scary. The cigars/caps looks pretty damn good imo. 

Also, @HoyoDC, by chance do you have a UV light? If so, I'd be interested in seeing pictures of the UV seal on the green seal as well as the bands. (While these measures have been successfully copied by forgers before, I'd still be interested in seeing what your box has). 

I was watching one of old heads cigar aficionado and he talked about there's fake cigars with the original boxes/packaging and bands and the SN checks out. Basically there's no way you can tell if its fake or not unless you take it to Cuba. scary indeed. 

[joeypots]

In my cigar infancy there were rumors that vendors would switch bands on fugazies and mix a few in with authentic cigars. It’s about the vendor in the end and even they can be fooled. The big prices make it more worthwhile to counterfeit cigars. 

BTW, shouldn’t the warranty seal have another sticker, I forget what it’s called, under it thus providing a little bump in the outer sticker?

[HoyoDC]

10 hours ago, Arabian said:

I was watching one of old heads cigar aficionado and he talked about there's fake cigars with the original boxes/packaging and bands and the SN checks out. basically there's no way you can tell if its fake or not unless you take it to Cuba. scary indeed. 

I will send Monday. The box Esplendido type caught my attention but the cigars looked great. I will send the UV light Monday.

[gormag38]

16 hours ago, joeypots said:

t’s about the vendor in the end

Always. Holds even more weight in today's cc world. 

16 hours ago, joeypots said:

BTW, shouldn’t the warranty seal have another sticker, I forget what it’s called, under it thus providing a little bump in the outer sticker?

Yes there is a tax stamp underneath the green warranty seal. @HoyoDC you could gently rub your finger over the green warranty seal (near the edge of the box where it starts to fold) and see if you feel another 'sticker' or 'stamp' underneath. Again this is something counterfeiters have started applying, but if there isn't anything underneath then it certainly be another indicator of a fugazi. 

[HoyoDC]

From seller : The Esplendido a purchased from a Habano Sommelier in Havana. They regularly get boxes and samples from the factories and Habanos SA. That box is 100% from the El Laguito factory, which is the mother factory of the Cohiba brand. The factory code of the El Laguito was MAR, now it is GES. It is hard to say when they changed it, because it does not happen from one day to another. With the code of 000050791106, I agree with you. This barcode was used on 2021 boxes. Maybe they stamped the box later, and that is why the inconsistency between the date stamp and the barcode. I sent you many photos, when I offered the box to you. I did not want to hide any detail. What you can be sure, that the box is from a reliable source, and the content of the box is 100% authentic Cohiba Esplendidos cigars. This box is over 2500 USD in Havana in the shops, and over 3000 in Europe. I could give it to you for 1800 because I could buy it from a Habanos Sommelier, who would never sell non factory cigars.
He is willing to arrange for a refund. 

 

15 hours ago, gormag38 said:

Always. Holds even more weight in today's cc world. 

Yes there is a tax stamp underneath the green warranty seal. @HoyoDC you could gently rub your finger over the green warranty seal (near the edge of the box where it starts to fold) and see if you feel another 'sticker' or 'stamp' underneath. Again this is something counterfeiters have started applying, but if there isn't anything underneath then it certainly be another indicator of a fugazi. 

Will check that Monday too.

[Li Bai]

15 hours ago, HoyoDC said:

He is willing to arrange for a refund.

I would take it, I'd always have a doubt otherwise but that's just me. Personally, I don't buy Cohiba but if I did, it would be from here or from a trusted shop with the additional official importer seal on the box. It's a shame but looking for cheaper Cohibas nowadays is like fighting windmills.

[gormag38]

15 hours ago, HoyoDC said:

I could give it to you for 1800

HUGE red flag. No one is giving away cohibas for discounted prices like that. 

15 hours ago, HoyoDC said:

It is hard to say when they changed it

While they do not officially release factory codes/announce when they change it is totally possible to piece together information to get a general idea as to when codes change/which ones they are using. MAR has not been seen since the start of 2022. (This is when it changed to GES). 

15 hours ago, HoyoDC said:

He is willing to arrange for a refund. 

Take it. 

15 hours ago, HoyoDC said:

I could buy it from a Habanos Sommelier

Judging based on this, he very well could've bought it from someone in Cuba. The sticks look quite good and are could very likely be Cuban tobacco. With that being said, do you really wanna pay 1800 for some farm rolls with Cohiba bands slapped on. 

[jfestrelabr]

Take the refund. This story is very folklore to me.

[Chibearsv]

5 hours ago, gormag38 said:

HUGE red flag. No one is giving away cohibas for discounted prices like that. 

Agreed on the refund suggestion here.  $75 per cigar is too much to spend on orange or red flags and a story about why they may exist; especially if the cigars should cost $100.  If they're willing to give the refund, I'd take it, run, and never look back at this seller. 

[Wailbait]

Take the refund.  Run.  There are no “deals” on Cohiba.  No one “knows” anyone. I’m personally scared if I start seeing fake PLPC.  

[NSXCIGAR]

On 3/29/2024 at 7:24 AM, gormag38 said:

Judging based on this, he very well could've bought it from someone in Cuba. The sticks look quite good and are could very likely be Cuban tobacco.

With the box stamps looking accurate I would say these are most likely genuine Esplendidos that went out the back door of a factory (probably Laguito) and a fake seal (many of which are floating around Havana) applied to sell it. 

So good news and bad. These are very possibly real Esplendidos that are worthless to anyone but the smoker. 

[gormag38]

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I would say these are most likely genuine Esplendidos that went out the back door of a factory (probably Laguito) and a fake seal (many of which are floating around Havana) applied to sell it. 

I could certainly see this happening. There are definitely others that are much more knowledgeable than myself about backdoor dealings out of factories in Cuba. But there is certainly alot right about these sticks, with really the seal being the one dead ass wrong thing. I could see them slapping a fake one on there easy enough.

[NSXCIGAR]

19 hours ago, gormag38 said:

I could certainly see this happening. There are definitely others that are much more knowledgeable than myself about backdoor dealings out of factories in Cuba. But there is certainly alot right about these sticks, with really the seal being the one dead ass wrong thing. I could see them slapping a fake one on there easy enough.

It's becoming very common these days. There are very good seals floating around Cuba for some reason although these aren't one of them. I actually forgot the box stamp isn't accurate although the font is correct meaning an authentic stamp was used and the person that stamped it either didn't know MAR had changed to GES or they used 23 instead of 21 by mistake as 000050 should be around 21. I would say in this case it's highly unlikely the box came from Laguito as the person would know MAR had been retired.