Apple Cancels Project Titan

[Fuzz]

From what I've read, Drive Pilot is available in the US now for the EQS, and will be rolled out to the S Class later this year. That is the only certified and approved level 3 (conditional automated driving) vehicle in the US. No vehicle is fully autonomous, no matter what Tesla says. If you look at the SAE criteria for level 5, Tesla's FSD does not meet it. There are enough instances where the software fails to call it perfect. Calling it FSD is snake oil salesman tactics.

Apple's Project Titan was killed off because of lack of data for FSD. Apple did a lot of autonomous testing, but they never managed to find a partner to build the vehicle, despite numerous talks with major manufacturers. Not to mention the revolving door leadership and constantly shifting timelines and ambitions. If you keep moving the goal posts, you're just not gonna score. Even when they dropped autonomous driving feature from their EV, the project still died.

Xiaomi, on the other hand, partnered with Chinese automaker BAIC to bring forth their EV, the SU7. They expect to release it in Q2 this year in China, and to be rolled out to other countries in Q4. Unfortunately, no plans for a RHD model for Australia.

[VeguerosMAN]

6 hours ago, Fuzz said:

From what I've read, Drive Pilot is available in the US now for the EQS, and will be rolled out to the S Class later this year. That is the only certified and approved level 3 (conditional automated driving) vehicle in the US. No vehicle is fully autonomous, no matter what Tesla says. If you look at the SAE criteria for level 5, Tesla's FSD does not meet it. There are enough instances where the software fails to call it perfect. Calling it FSD is snake oil salesman tactics.

Apple's Project Titan was killed off because of lack of data for FSD. Apple did a lot of autonomous testing, but they never managed to find a partner to build the vehicle, despite numerous talks with major manufacturers. Not to mention the revolving door leadership and constantly shifting timelines and ambitions. If you keep moving the goal posts, you're just not gonna score. Even when they dropped autonomous driving feature from their EV, the project still died.

Xiaomi, on the other hand, partnered with Chinese automaker BAIC to bring forth their EV, the SU7. They expect to release it in Q2 this year in China, and to be rolled out to other countries in Q4. Unfortunately, no plans for a RHD model for Australia.

So Mercedes FSD could read stop signs, traffic lights, and drive in the cities, like Tesla. Correct? How come we didn't hear about this as Mercedes owners, haha!

[Fuzz]

Again, Mercedes Drive Pilot is conditional level 3 autonomous. Under the approved conditions, it will allow the driver to do other things instead of supervising the driving. At this stage it does not read street signs or traffic lights.  Tesla's FSD does do that, but as I said, there are enough instances to not call it perfect. Simple traffic cones have fooled the system, forcing the driver to take action.

 

[VeguerosMAN]

4 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Again, Mercedes Drive Pilot is conditional level 3 autonomous. Under the approved conditions, it will allow the driver to do other things instead of supervising the driving. At this stage it does not read street signs or traffic lights.  Tesla's FSD does do that, but as I said, there are enough instances to not call it perfect. Simple traffic cones have fooled the system, forcing the driver to take action.

Sounds like Tesla's autonomous driving is way more advanced than Mercedes.  Are you bullish on Apple? 

[Fuzz]

It is more advanced, but still not full self driving and not certified.

[VeguerosMAN]

1 hour ago, Fuzz said:

It is more advanced, but still not full self driving and not certified.

There is Musk factor as well.  A lot of people hate him after his X purchase.  I believe Tesla was the biggest short stock in 2023.  I think Tesla FSD will be certified sooner or later. 

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

 China will probably (I am betting) be the first one to buy Tesla FSD. 

Isn't Tesla made in China?

[Bijan]

35 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Isn't Tesla made in China?

Some. They have factories in California, Texas and China. Probably elsewhere too.

[El Presidente]

59 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Some. They have factories in California, Texas and China. Probably elsewhere too.

Cheers Bijan. 

I should have googled. 

"Tesla's Shanghai plant, its biggest globally, is capable of producing 1.1 million units of Model 3 and Model Y cars a year and besides China also supplies countries such as New Zealand, Australia and Europe"

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

There is Musk factor as well.  A lot of people hate him after his X purchase.  I believe Tesla was the biggest short stock in 2023.  I think Tesla FSD will be certified sooner or later. 

This need by some to be on one team or another equal parts fascinates and annoys me. 

Try to analyse on a purely business/factual footing. 

Tesla has lost over 90 billion in value this year. 

This is the reason why. 

"Tesla shares were down just over 12% on Thursday after CEO Elon Musk sounded the alarm over Chinese electric-car makers, which he called “the most competitive car companies in the world.” 

On Tesla’s Wednesday earnings call, Musk claimed that Chinese carmakers, which include BYD, Geely, and SAIC, are “extremely good,” and could threaten other carmakers in the U.S. and elsewhere if governments do not step in."

https://fortune.com/2024/01/25/elon-musks-chines-ev-tesla-82-billion-dollar-stock-drop/

 

From a business analysts perspective, the following is what concerns the market. 

• Tesla has now largely lost its first to market advantage. 

1.        The last sedan release was 2020.
2.        Semi trucks and cybertruck needs to be a success. The jury is out. 

• Tesla has been forced to cut pricing. 
• Remarkably, Musk has largely split (via political positioning) his traditional US EV base. 
• Chinese EV manufacturers have build cost advantage due to scale and ready access to mineral resources. 
• Tesla is now being looked at (and valued) as a car company and not a tech company. 

To Musks defence, his brilliance is the major thing keeping Tesla's value as high as it is now.  However, numbers don't lie and as his comments this year have shown, there are serious challenges. 

 

In relation to Apple, they have been the best run company in the world for decades. 

[BrightonCorgi]

23 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

To Musks defence, his brilliance is the major thing keeping Tesla's value as high as it is now.  However, numbers don't lie and as his comments this year have shown, there are serious challenges. 

 

In relation to Apple, they have been the best run company in the world for decades. 

At least electric cars are disposable. Hardly the heirloom vehicles we are accustomed to. 

How will Musk's satellite network fit into all this in the future? Lots of avenues for income & integration in space.

[El Presidente]

8 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

At least electric cars are disposable. Hardly the heirloom vehicles we are accustomed to. 

How will Musk's satellite network fit into all this in the future? Lots of avenues for income & integration in space.

Complete internet "always on"  connectivity.  It will likely be a subscription service. 

[VeguerosMAN]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Isn't Tesla made in China?

Yes. But the FSD function is only available in the US.  I am betting BYD and other Evs will buy Tesla FSDs

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

This need by some to be on one team or another equal parts fascinates and annoys me. 

Try to analyse on a purely business/factual footing. 

Tesla has lost over 90 billion in value this year. 

This is the reason why. 

"Tesla shares were down just over 12% on Thursday after CEO Elon Musk sounded the alarm over Chinese electric-car makers, which he called “the most competitive car companies in the world.” 

On Tesla’s Wednesday earnings call, Musk claimed that Chinese carmakers, which include BYD, Geely, and SAIC, are “extremely good,” and could threaten other carmakers in the U.S. and elsewhere if governments do not step in."

https://fortune.com/2024/01/25/elon-musks-chines-ev-tesla-82-billion-dollar-stock-drop/

 

From a business analysts perspective, the following is what concerns the market. 

• Tesla has now largely lost its first to market advantage. 

1.        The last sedan release was 2020.
2.        Semi trucks and cybertruck needs to be a success. The jury is out. 

• Tesla has been forced to cut pricing. 
• Remarkably, Musk has largely split (via political positioning) his traditional US EV base. 
• Chinese EV manufacturers have build cost advantage due to scale and ready access to mineral resources. 
• Tesla is now being looked at (and valued) as a car company and not a tech company. 

To Musks defence, his brilliance is the major thing keeping Tesla's value as high as it is now.  However, numbers don't lie and as his comments this year have shown, there are serious challenges. 

 

In relation to Apple, they have been the best run company in the world for decades. 

They were forced to cut prices due to high interest and still was able to make profits.  Losing 100 billions in Tesla is nothing.  It is a volatile stock and will bounce back stronger, like they always do.

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

At least electric cars are disposable. Hardly the heirloom vehicles we are accustomed to. 

How will Musk's satellite network fit into all this in the future? Lots of avenues for income & integration in space.

I believe it's going to be a big ecosystem between all Musk companies- Starlink, Space X and Tesla.  This may sound like some Sci Fi.. but eventually Musk will send Tesla cyber truck, the optimus bots to Mars with Starship and build a city in Mars.

1 minute ago, VeguerosMAN said:

I believe it's going to be a big ecosystem between all Musk companies- Starlink, Space X and Tesla.  This may sound like some Sci Fi.. but eventually Musk will send Tesla cyber truck, the optimus bots to Mars with Starship and build a city in Mars. 

And the money transaction between Earth and Mars will be Dodgecoin 😀

[Boss Hog]

Are Tesla interiors made by Fisher Price? 🤣

God, the fit and finish in those automobiles is shoddy as shit.

[VeguerosMAN]

1 hour ago, Boss Hog said:

Are Tesla interiors made by Fisher Price? 🤣

God, the fit and finish in those automobiles is shoddy as shit.

It has gotten better over the years. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I am not a buyer (just yet) for a Tesla but I buy his vision and execution so far. A stockholder rooting for his success.

[VeguerosMAN]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I am not a buyer (just yet) for a Tesla but I buy his vision and execution so far. A stockholder rooting for his success.

I went all in on Tesla and Dodge in 2020 and actually was able to retire early. Tesla right now is buying opportunity of a life time in my opinion.

[Fuzz]

4 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

They were forced to cut prices due to high interest and still was able to make profits.  Losing 100 billions in Tesla is nothing.  It is a volatile stock and will bounce back stronger, like they always do.

They had to cut prices because BYD was cutting prices and taking market share in China.

https://www.investors.com/news/tesla-vs-byd-2024-tsla-stock-ev-rivals/

[LordAnubis]

On 2/28/2024 at 10:59 AM, Chitmo said:

I’m curious to see where hydrogen ice goes to be honest, the big push for everyone to go electric seems to have major resistance. For me personally I’m not a car guy so I don’t care. My decision is strictly financial, and until the price of a EV is lower than my SUV + fuel cost I’m not switching. For most of my friends that are “Car guys” Electric cars have no soul, people have emotional attachments to vehicles like it or not and electric cars are sterile. 

I always find car guys so weird. As if burning thousand year old dinosaurs and trees juice has so much soul. Electric cars are miles ahead on pure performance which is what car guys should care about. Certainly the cheaper electric cars like the BYD dolphin are absolutely lower cost per kilometre than an equivalent ice. A Tesla not so much. Teslas battery technology is pretty rubbish in the current market. BYD has much better quality of batteries at the moment. 

[VeguerosMAN]

9 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

They had to cut prices because BYD was cutting prices and taking market share in China.

https://www.investors.com/news/tesla-vs-byd-2024-tsla-stock-ev-rivals/

They started cutting prices early in 2023.  I expect more price cuts in the future as they are able to cut costs.

7 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

I always find car guys so weird. As if burning thousand year old dinosaurs and trees juice has so much soul. Electric cars are miles ahead on pure performance which is what car guys should care about. Certainly the cheaper electric cars like the BYD dolphin are absolutely lower cost per kilometre than an equivalent ice. A Tesla not so much. Teslas battery technology is pretty rubbish in the current market. BYD has much better quality of batteries at the moment. 

Living here in the USA we don't know much about BYD. But I believe BYD and other Chinese EVs will put the nail in the coffin for Ford, Gm and other legacy auto makers as they are literally giving up on EVs.

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, Boss Hog said:

Are Tesla interiors made by Fisher Price? 🤣

God, the fit and finish in those automobiles is shoddy as shit.

The China made Tesla have been noted to have better quality control than the US made ones. Lucky we get China made ones here in Aus.

 

[SirVantes]

8 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

I always find car guys so wierd. As if burning thousand year old dinosaurs and treees juice has so much soul.

About as much soul as burning cured vegetable matter, I guess.

Signed, the watch guys, the fountain pen guys, the guitar guys, the vinyl (and CD) guys, the animal hide shoe guys...

[El Presidente]

3 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

They started cutting prices early in 2023.  I expect more price cuts in the future as they are able to cut costs.

Living here in the USA we don't know much about BYD. But I believe BYD and other Chinese EVs will put the nail in the coffin for Ford, Gm and other legacy auto makers as they are literally giving up on EVs.

BYD is impressive. Their speed of releases (at increasing quality/range/design has everyone in the EV world on notice. They are already the largest manufacturer.

Musk didn't ask for government intervention in January 2024 for nothing.

EV take up rates in many Western countries (including US) has stalled. 

It will indeed be interesting to see how legacy makers in the US/ Europe/Japan/South Korea, handle it.

Toyota with their hybrid strategy look like geniuses right now.

If this were a game of football, we are at the beginning of the second quarter.

....and no, I can't see myself buying a BYD or Tesla) as they don't meet my needs right now. 

Whether it is Tesla or BYD or any other car giant, my interest is simply one of a business enthusiast looking on and reading the tea leaves in a fast changing world. 

Will Tesla stock price be valued as an auto company and not a tech stock?

Will Chinese EV manufacturers face increasing tarrifs from car manufacturing countries?

Will EV adoption rates recalibrate to pre 2022 levels? 

Will Toyota's strategy win out?

I could go on.

Truly fascinating for the business inquiring mind 

 

[Arabian]

Chinese Automakers Pose U.S. National-Security Threat, Biden Says

Seems like Huawei 2.0

[BrightonCorgi]

8 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

Living here in the USA we don't know much about BYD. But I believe BYD and other Chinese EVs will put the nail in the coffin for Ford, Gm and other legacy auto makers as they are literally giving up on EVs.

There could be tariffs in the future for Chinese made EV's.