Hypothetical: Deceased estate cigars.

[El Presidente]

Hypothetical: Deceased estate cigars. 

Say a mix of 2000 Cuban cigars. 2012-2019

You would like to make an offer assuming provenance and condition checks are positive. The advanced search feature on BR can give an approximate in Fair Market Value of the collection.  The cigars need to be purchased in one line. 

How would you go about determining your offer?  

[B44]

There’s an inherent bulk discount say 20% for purchasing the lot. Assuming there are items you don’t want, your time, convenience of capital, etc. 

Thats where my mind points to in these situations. How have you handled them in the past?

[El Presidente]

21 hours ago, B44 said:

How have you handled them in the past?

Rarely. 

I generally put seller and prospective buyers together and leave it at that. 

9 times out of 10 when these things come up, I am emotionally connected in some way  to the seller. I am uncomfortable  turning a coin in such circumstances and would rather put them in touch with good people who I know have similar hearts/intentions. 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

Assuming an even mix of brands with an even distribution of small, large, cheap & cheerful and premium I would say a price per stick of $15 for the whole lot or $30K. Less or more premium I'd swing between $10-20/stick. 

[B44]

12 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Rarely. 

I generally put seller and prospective buyers together and leave it at that. 

9 times out of 10 when these things come up, I am emotionally connected in some way  to the seller. I am uncomfortable in turning a coin in such circumstances and would rather put them in touch with good people who I know have similar hearts/intentions. 

 

People would be fortunate to come across your information in those situations.  You’re a good man, I can only hope one of your boys is getting the torch to continue the tradition. 

[gustavehenne]

I've pondered this recently although given I'm only 37, I'm not exactly sure why! (and hoping that I don't need to anytime soon)...

I decided that I would pick one person I trust from my cigar circle (likely @torsion, sorry!), leave them a box of VI (or whatever else floats the boat) in my will and trust that person to advise my partner in the sale of all of these for fair market value.

I also want to be buried with my top three cigars: Padron 1926 No. 1 Maduro, Cohiba Siglo VI and Davidoff Royal Robusto (I shall update this list as it changes 😛)

[Rhinoww]

Bulk sales are always at a discount. Always something you don’t really want and will need to sell or give away in a big lot. Are there gems worth that effort?  Seems a fair bit of work to sell, ship.and of course answer potential buyer questions. That discount- it’s for buyer and seller

[Nevrknow]

If she sells them for what I told her I paid for them we're losing a ton of cash. 😁

[MrBirdman]

2 hours ago, gustavehenne said:

I also want to be buried with my top three cigars: Padron 1926 No. 1 Maduro, Cohiba Siglo VI and Davidoff Royal Robusto (I shall update this list as it changes 😛)

Excellent idea, I only hope the crematory will oblige my request to go up in smoke with my favorite sticks!

[Wookie]

Hoping not to keel over too soon, but I do have a lot of hoyo, partagas, etc that I’ve lost taste for and would like to unload.  But I’m too lazy to do it one box at a time.  Is it possible to “bank” cash at Bond Robert’s and then use that cash for purchasing at FOH?

[GVan]

Actually, this is something that I'm sure a few of us would love the chance at buying the whole stash.  2012 to 2019 were mostly good years.  I have my favorites in my collection and have mostly focused on buying deep in those few cuban marcas that are in my wheelhouse.  But I also enjoy reaching for something "different" and wish that I'd bought a little more cuban variety.  Today, I satisfy the diversity wish by buying NC's instead -- and I can't believe I'm now up to >800 NC's in the collection.

Buying an estate sale certainly would accomplish that goal.  I have two thoughts on your question:

First if it's a FOH BOTL (and at 2000 cigars probably is) then I think FOH pricing at Fair Market Value, minus 15% for dogs - because we all have dogs in our collections - is the way to go.  I'd like to see the beneficiaries get something from all the years of collecting that the brother did.  The hard part will be determining the current FMA because of the huge price increases and continuing price changes (both up and down).

My second thought is that there really is a small. specialty business in here for someone willing to do the work.  When my wife's mother and father died, we found a small, local business that came into their home and did the estate sale for us.  We were amazed at the care they took at properly pricing and displaying all their many things.  Stuff sold that we would have just thrown away if we were doing the sale.  In the end, the business took 50% of the sales but my wife's family ended-up with more cash from the estate sale than we would have guessed.  I think everyone involved was happy because we did not have the work to do and there were other important wishes in their will that we could then focus on for the family.  Probably, this would work with cigars as well, although it would have to be done by some small business using BR and Facebook cigar groups.

[BrightonCorgi]

A friend of mine is sitting on a dozen or so boxes from the Revolution time that were part of a deceased estate.  She keeps them in an aristocrat and some decade she'll finally sell them. 

We sold ~20 boxes about 15 years ago.  Priced was based on what a few big intl vendors offered to pay.  Ask 3-4 and you get a general idea and worked with the buyers to get it done.  I'd be curious to see where the value has gone since then.

[Silverstix]

Tough thing to think about, but I had 2 very close calls last year with surgery complications. I went back in this year to have things fixed and this topic was heavy on my mind this time around.

If something did happen, my wife (stay at home mom) could have a decent chunk of change that would help tremendously.

So with my meticulous records, I spreadsheet my collection in excel. I’ve been watching recent private sales and BR sales, I came up with pricing for each cigar I own. I left this spreadsheet with my brother and gave him instructions to reach out here and a couple of other places to help offload them.

Very hard to think about, but a $30k collection can go a long long way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Presidente]

15 hours ago, gustavehenne said:

I've pondered this recently although given I'm only 37,

 

...I had no idea you were only 37....

 

 

 

 

[El Presidente]

11 hours ago, Wookie said:

Hoping not to keel over too soon, but I do have a lot of hoyo, partagas, etc that I’ve lost taste for and would like to unload.  But I’m too lazy to do it one box at a time.  Is it possible to “bank” cash at Bond Robert’s and then use that cash for purchasing at FOH?

BR is not a bank 

European/KYC Money Laundering laws frown heavily on such activities 

[AshesToExcellence]

Cool challenge, thank you! Determining an offer:

1. Verify Authenticity: We're not chasing unicorns, examine labels and packaging.
2. Check Condition: Next up, CSI it. Inspect for any unpleasant surprises. Broken wrappers, mold infestations, and the dreaded beetle holes (because nobody wants a cigar that's been hosting its own wildlife documentary).
3. Categorize by Brand and Age: Here’s where you create your own cigar Hall of Fame. Thanks to BR’s Sellers Reports, brands like Cohiba, Trini, and Partagas tend to be the A-listers of the secondary market. And age? In cigars, it's not about wrinkles; it's about value.
4. Online Research: Use BR’s advanced search feature to hunt for your cigar doppelgangers - same brand, size, age, and condition. Besides prices, keep an eye on the rate of increase of those prices over the last 6, 12 & 18 months for a view on the coming months. It's like checking the stock market, but with more smoke rings.
5. Rare & Limited Editions: In terms of resale (again, thanks BR), these can be the gems, the hidden treasures that can make you do a happy dance.
6. Evaluate Packaging: Were these smokes kept in their original boxes, or were they living it up in a humidor? You don't want cigars that sound like they're doing the salsa when you touch them – they should be smooth, not crunchy!
7. Calculate Value Range: Smash the numbers, Buffet/Munger-style. Calculate the fair market value range by summing up the lowest and highest prices from your BR online sleuthing. It’s like assessing whether they're sporting tuxedos or pajamas.   

                Fair Market Value Range = (Lowest Price + Highest Price) / 2 

("Lowest Price" represents the lowest price you found during your BR research; "Highest Price" represents the highest price you found. The formula calculates the average or midpoint between the lowest and highest prices, giving you a range within which the fair market value is likely to fall.)

8. Negotiate Offer: Make an offer that's in the lower end of your calculated range. Justify your offer with a couple of fancy cigar terms, they won't know the difference (just kidding!).

[El Presidente]

11 minutes ago, AshesToExcellence said:

Cool challenge, thank you! Determining an offer:

1. Verify Authenticity: We're not chasing unicorns, examine labels and packaging.
2. Check Condition: Next up, CSI it. Inspect for any unpleasant surprises. Broken wrappers, mold infestations, and the dreaded beetle holes (because nobody wants a cigar that's been hosting its own wildlife documentary).
3. Categorize by Brand and Age: Here’s where you create your own cigar Hall of Fame. Thanks to BR’s Sellers Reports, brands like Cohiba, Trini, and Partagas tend to be the A-listers of the secondary market. And age? In cigars, it's not about wrinkles; it's about value.
4. Online Research: Use BR’s advanced search feature to hunt for your cigar doppelgangers - same brand, size, age, and condition. Besides prices, keep an eye on the rate of increase of those prices over the last 6, 12 & 18 months for a view on the coming months. It's like checking the stock market, but with more smoke rings.
5. Rare & Limited Editions: In terms of resale (again, thanks BR), these can be the gems, the hidden treasures that can make you do a happy dance.
6. Evaluate Packaging: Were these smokes kept in their original boxes, or were they living it up in a humidor? You don't want cigars that sound like they're doing the salsa when you touch them – they should be smooth, not crunchy!
7. Calculate Value Range: Smash the numbers, Buffet/Munger-style. Calculate the fair market value range by summing up the lowest and highest prices from your BR online sleuthing. It’s like assessing whether they're sporting tuxedos or pajamas.   

                Fair Market Value Range = (Lowest Price + Highest Price) / 2 

("Lowest Price" represents the lowest price you found during your BR research; "Highest Price" represents the highest price you found. The formula calculates the average or midpoint between the lowest and highest prices, giving you a range within which the fair market value is likely to fall.)

8. Negotiate Offer: Make an offer that's in the lower end of your calculated range. Justify your offer with a couple of fancy cigar terms, they won't know the difference (just kidding!).

Take the above into account but I am going to throw in a non financial calculae. 

Have a heart. 

If you are dealing directly with a distressed spouse, sleep well with whatever offer you make. 

 

[jakebarnes]

Just now, El Presidente said:

Take the above into account but I am going to throw in a non financial calculae. 

Have a heart. 

If you are dealing directly with a distressed spouse, sleep well. 

 

This. Don't be a vulture. Be understanding and compassionate.

[Wookie]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

BR is not a bank 

European/KYC Money Laundering laws frown heavily on such activities

Thanks Pres… just inquiring. You one of the best things going in the “happy place world”. 

[DaBoot]

I would do my calculations. I wouldn’t use BR as my reference, as there is a lot of work to auction off 2k cigars. I personally don’t value 10yr old CORO at 2k a box either. 
I would make my offer based on what I would want to pay, but I would definitely mention that you could maximize profit by doing the work yourself selling the collection off piece by piece, dealing with 20 buyers, shipping, online payments, etc. if it’s retail at 20k, I would say that then make my offer.

[MickVanWinkle]

Let’s put it this way, my will came as a result of me ensuring continuity of care for my dogs and cigars…

Unfortunately she now basically sees what denomination bills I’m burning in a weekly basis.

[Rushman]

18 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Take the above into account but I am going to throw in a non financial calculae. 

Have a heart. 

If you are dealing directly with a distressed spouse, sleep well with whatever offer you make.

Absolutely. This ain't no Pawn Stars!

[gustavehenne]

On 11/9/2023 at 11:05 AM, El Presidente said:

...I had no idea you were only 37...

It was an incredibly tough paper round....

[BrightonCorgi]

I'd offer them realistic and honest valuations and paths to achieve said values.  Not worth making prey over someone's hardship or tragedy.  That said, most aren't looking to jump through hoops selling off the deceased's assets.  No one wants to take a bath or feel ripped of either.

Going through this now. 

[Lamboinee]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:54 PM, gustavehenne said:

I've pondered this recently

I think my wife would probably give them to my cigar-buddy neighbor.  If I ever move, or he pisses me off, I will need a new plan. 

It is difficult for me to answer the hypo because I can only imagine confronting it as a friend of the deceased/deceased's family or as a complete stranger at an estate auction/sale. 

In either scenario, I would ask for input from 2-3 more knowledgeable CC buddies and use BR and my own purchase experience as guides to establish how much I would be willing to pay as well as the "market value" of the cigars in general. 

In the first scenario, if they needed money and we are close, I'd make as generous an offer possible. If the cigars were not going to sell and/or weren't worth the asking price at the estate auction, AND it seemed appropriate for me to even make an offer other than the current asking price, I would start by simply telling them about the estimates from my friends and the pricing history from personal experience and from BR.  I would also offer to share my own personal estimate of the amount of time, expense, hassle, etc. it would be to sell them for them in the best and worst case scenarios.

Then, if it still seemed appropriate, I'd ask the family to quote me a new sales price based on what they thought the cigars were worth to them, right now, with all that knowledge I shared with them.  They would have to really press me and I would have to really really really want them before I would break down and just make an offer that was one farthing less than whatever they originally asked for them. It is often a bad idea to tell other people what their possessions/time are worth if they don't already know themselves.   

In the later scenario, all gloves are off. Full-on Persian bazaar car badger haggle tactics.  Never make the first, second, or third (if you're a boss) offer. Get distracted, because estate sales remind you of the guys you're always dating.  Pretend it's your family member's estate and just cry a lot while staring at the cigars so no one else will come around and make an offer. See if you can make an offer that slightly insults them, and then say "just kidding", and then ask them if they would take that same offer if someone were to make it.  See how many times you can get them to let you see and inspect individual cigars.  Ask to talk to their estate lawyer because you have questions about the legal implications for their family and his law license since they are selling CC's and your wife is on the CC enforcement bureau.  File a claim on the estate and offer to take the cigars in exchange. See if they will let you try to fit yourself inside the humidor/storage.  Tell them that you are the opposing counsel for the estate and you need to conduct and inventory audit for the funeral home before the lot is sold.  Ask to sample a cigar, and then ask it again.  Ask them to throw in some other chostcki's from the estate sale to sweeten the deal in the memory of the deceased.  Tell them you zelle'd the money to their lawyer like his paralegal told you to do and then ask for a discount since you have to pay the un-transaction fee to unzelle the money. Tell them the deceased used to sleep with your mom and you think they owe you something, unless they want a scene.  Ask them "how could you prove those are cuban" and then pull out your video camera and record them while looking very intent and smug as if you're documenting evidence.  Buy them, and then tell them you were surprised they sold them to you since you're under the tobacco purchasing age (the post purchase givsey-backsy discount).  The usual stuff.