EAR: At what point do you question your vendor over authenticity.

[El Presidente]

EAR= Email Assistance Required

 

" what disappoints most is that I thought we had a good relationship and yet after I raised these issues, I have been cut as a client. in over 13 years I have raised 4 issues. OK two of those were in the past two months. You know how much fake Cohiba product is being sold right now. I was concerned he had been infiltrated as those siglo VI tasted way off and the font on the serial number wasn't quite right.  Everything else was fine. I know my VI and these weren't Vi.  Rob I have two questions. How much variation is in the serial number format? and How do I proceed from here?" 

[Jackdani7401]

In my limited experience, trust in your vendor is paramount…specifically if you live in the US and are not able to have eyes on the product prior to purchase. 
 

I have ordered from other vendors prior to finding FOH, and have made some questionable purchases, but only 1 time. If I have any doubt in the product I receive, I don’t even take the chance with a 2nd order. 
 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. 
 

Sounds like it’s time for this bloke to find another vendor and exercise some patience when making purchases. 
 

[Chibearsv]

If he bought fake cigars from a vendor that had now cut him off, I’d consider that a positive. It sounds like he’s convinced they’re fake.  My experience with something similar is that the vendor never admitted that anything was wrong, but gave me a full refund upon my return of the cigars. That solution was fine with me and I haven’t purchased a cigar from that vendor since. Whether they knew they sold fakes or didn’t notice the flaws made no difference to me.  Not a quality vendor to worry about.  

[Tunkat92]

If I saw strange font for the serial number, I would be highly suspect. If it was a box of RG PE I would chalk it up as an oddity, but a box of Cohibas would definitely steer me clear and ask for a refund. Sounds like that vendor made the right choice for them. Ask for a refund and stay away from that vendor. I have not noticed any variance in serial number font.

[Corylax18]

Not liking the cigars is not proof that they're fake. It never has been and never will be. Did he check the serial number against the Habanos site? With all the information available on the internet today, its not hard to determine whether a box is fake, with pretty high confidence. If the buyer didn't exhaust all options on checking the authenticity of the box first (and it doesn't sound like he did) and provide the vendor with solid evidence that the box was fake, then I completely understand why the vendor wouldn't want to work with them anymore. There appears to be no shortage of "experts" willing to shell out insane money for cigars right now, so the vendor likely won't miss him. 

[dominattorney]

6 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Not liking the cigars is not proof that they're fake. It never has been and never will be. Did he check the serial number against the Habanos site? With all the information available on the internet today, its not hard to determine weather a box is fake, with pretty high confidence. If the buyer didn't exhaust all options on checking the authenticity of the box first (and it doesn't sound like he did) and provide the vendor with solid evidence that the box was fake, then I completely understand why the vendor wouldn't want to work with them anymore. There appears to be no shortage of "experts" willing to shell out insane money for cigars right now, so the vendor likely won't miss him. 

Seriously. Supply and demand ain't on the buyers side right now. Why deal with customers that whine and ask you to do your homework for them when there's no shortage of replacement buyers and also, the situation isn't likely ever to return to normal anytime soon to render this a poor decision on the part of the vendor?

I dont like these cigars. That is such a loaded comment especially considering the expectations that surround a 2 thousand dollar purchase. Seems to me a case of underwhelming delivery of product which probably isn't the vendors fault as much as the manufacturer. 

That having been said, we didn't get the full email in the original post. If this buyer did exhaust all options, perhaps I'd see it differently. On the other hand, he had 2 issues with the vendor in as many months. A good deal depends on what the other issue is in my book. I've had zero issues with FOH. One time I had a question, but it was swiftly answered to my satisfaction. I've bought boxes that I didn't love, sure. But that's just the way it goes in this game, and I certainly don't blame the vendor. 

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Not liking the cigars is not proof that they're fake. It never has been and never will be. Did he check the serial number against the Habanos site? With all the information available on the internet today, its not hard to determine whether a box is fake, with pretty high confidence. If the buyer didn't exhaust all options on checking the authenticity of the box first (and it doesn't sound like he did) and provide the vendor with solid evidence that the box was fake, then I completely understand why the vendor wouldn't want to work with them anymore. There appears to be no shortage of "experts" willing to shell out insane money for cigars right now, so the vendor likely won't miss him. 

Serial number is fine. Bands are fine. 

Serial number font is slightly off, but I have seen that before on Cohiba, most recently on a box of 2022 Cohiba Siglo II. 

The problem some people have is flying off the handle. 

" hey ********, you need to check your supply lines because these Siglo VI are fake"    .......is not the way to proceed. 

In this case the gentleman and the retailer have butted heads twice over two months over similar issues. The first box was refunded 

The buyer believes he is 100% right and that the sellers inventory is compromised. No doubt the seller believes the buyer now a  tool and best rid of. 

 

Having seen the correspondence, I have recommended re-approaching the seller and corresponding with a little civility. His objective is to have the box refunded but he would like to remain a client.   

[Corylax18]

16 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Serial number is fine. Bands are fine. 

Serial number font is slightly off, but I have seen that before on Cohiba, most recently on a box of 2022 Cohiba Siglo II. 

The problem some people have is flying off the handle. 

" hey ********, you need to check your supply lines because these Siglo VI are fake"    .......is not the way to proceed. 

In this case the gentleman and the retailer have butted heads twice over two months over similar issues. The first box was refunded 

The buyer believes he is 100% right and that the sellers inventory is compromised. No doubt the seller believes the buyer now a  tool and best rid of. 

 

Having seen the correspondence, I have recommended re-approaching the seller and corresponding with a little civility. His objective is to have the box refunded but he would like to remain a client.   

Interesting. If the guy is convinced he's getting fakes, why the insistence on continuing the relationship? That doesn't make much sense to me. I've never been duped into fakes with an online purchase, but if it did happen, that would be the last purchase from that vendor, weather they refunded me for the box or not. I have asked for refunds a couple times on boxes that had some mold growing on the feet, but the issues were resolved and that alone wasn't a reason to stop buying from that vendor. 

As @dominattorney said, when you're spending this kind of coin on a box I understand that expectations are sky high, but even Cohiba/Trinidad don't deliver 100% of the time. I've purchased boxes from more than one source that I didn't end up enjoying. Real boxes, it can be frustrating, but its part of the game. You live and learn, but at $2k a box, that learning process can hurt. Taking that frustration out on someone else is never the right answer though. If the serial #, bands and the rest of the box checks out, "flavor" just isn't enough to prove the cigars are fake. 

[Fireball]

Depends if it is in store or on line. Sounds like it was online.

Online, there are a very select group of vendors that are on a level where one shouldn’t have doubt. Primarily because their reputation depends on them not selling fakes. There was a recent vendor that was found selling fakes, and based on the response I would imagine business has slowed up- and that trust is a problem that is nearly impossible to fix.

In store - I just buy great looking cigars at locations recognized by Habanos. Easy.

This guy gave a second chance though - big mistake in my book.

[BoliDan]

Knowing that he started off by cursing at the vendor kind of changes this. I'd delete his account too. If you're sincerely concerned and came to me level headed, I'd do what I can to investigate or offer a refund and send me back the box. But, busting through the door and being an ass is not the way to go. I hate people that yell at customer service folk to get their way or attention to something. Sounds like he got what he deserved and he needs to find a new 'trusted' vendor, that I'm sure he will rinse and repeat.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

His objective is to have the box refunded but he would like to remain a client.   

I think they're way past that point! 

The buyer is now going to be a captive to confirmation bias forever. They'll be paranoid about every box. A faintly stamped box code or missing corner of a sticker is going to be proof of fakes.

Accept the box back and refund the buyer and cut him off. 

[Chibearsv]

14 hours ago, El Presidente said:

His objective is to have the box refunded but he would like to remain a client.   

I agree with you and others who have commented, this statement makes no sense.  Some people just like to be miserable I guess.

[Cigar Surgeon]

I find some of these to be so baffling.  On /r/cubancigars we're inundated with people that are convinced beyond a shred of doubt their clearly fake Cohibas are the real deal.  And then you have people like this who think the cigar tastes different so it must be fake.

Subjective taste analysis of any cigar is not proof of anything other than the need to go outside and touch grass.  There are a dozen objective ways to determine the authenticity of a box and it's really easy to do.

[BrightonCorgi]

Maybe I am the fool, but in 20+ years of buying cigars online, I have never questioned a vendor or raised a concern.  Granted, my list of vendors is on one hand and I am rarely buying Cohibas. I usually leave it to vendors to pick a box in the vitola I am looking for unless it's an advertised special. I am not so picky, just send something they think is good. Never failed me.

Raised concerns 4 other times? Not an ideal customer unless they're a buying in the 6 digits. Then it may be worth hearing their bitching.

[bassistheplace]

I used to buy from others. Now I only buy from FOH. Trust is everything

[Silverstix]

Couple things here:

first - don't be an a-hole when you're trying to get someone to help you!  In this case you want the vendor to refund your purchase, you need to come at them politely.  Would you want to help someone who came at you in a rude manner? Amazes me how many people call customer service and talk to these people like dirt.

second - taste alone can't be the judge of authenticity.  This is a natural product, it's not a can of Pepsi.  If he can prove to this vendor they are fake, I would expect any legitimate business to refund the product.

third - he raised 4 issues with this vendor previously, as recently as two months ago......and he still went a made a $2k+ purchase of the most faked cigar on planet earth?  I mean, some people's greed is just too much for logic to contend with. The movie Boiler Room comes to mind, get a whale on the phone and their greed does the rest, they can't resist giving up their kid's college tuition money for the chance to see more dollar signs.

Every Cohiba I own was bought from Rob right here on FOH. I sleep like a baby at night.

 

[vladdraq]

Personally i haven't had a Cohiba that was tasting "way off".  Yes, many with construction issues (plugged mostly), but taste wise all were in that "Cohibaesque "range. What that suppose to mean "way off"? Not cuban tobacco, or storage issues etc?

[Fireball]

5 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

I find some of these to be so baffling.  On /r/cubancigars we're inundated with people that are convinced beyond a shred of doubt their clearly fake Cohibas are the real deal.  And then you have people like this who think the cigar tastes different so it must be fake.

That Reddit group is fun, but it can be a wild ride. I see some of the people post and it seems to me that worrying so much about whether a cigar is fake or not would just take all of the enjoyment out of the cigar. Some people are so worried they might as well just buy a NC or something rarely faked.

Some people won’t be satisfied unless they watch the roller put it in the box.

 

[dominattorney]

4 hours ago, vladdraq said:

Personally i haven't had a Cohiba that was tasting "way off".  Yes, many with construction issues (plugged mostly), but taste wise all were in that "Cohibaesque "range. What that suppose to mean "way off"? Not cuban tobacco, or storage issues etc?

He probably smoked one ROTT and figured it to be for another reason. 

[BoliDan]

1 hour ago, dominattorney said:

He probably smoked one ROTT and figured it to be for another reason. 

I was thinking this. I once got some horrid JL2s ROTT. Tastes like noxious landfill. So I just forgot about them for a year and they were you're typical orange and chocolate bomb after that.

[NSXCIGAR]

31 minutes ago, BoliDan said:

I was thinking this. I once got some horrid JL2s ROTT. Tastes like noxious landfill. So I just forgot about them for a year and they were you're typical orange and chocolate bomb after that.

Were they so bad you could have been convinced they were fake? It got me thinking I've had some bad CCs but I'm not sure if I've had one in the last 20 years that I at least could tell was authentic. 

[BoliDan]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Were they so bad you could have been convinced they were fake? It got me thinking I've had some bad CCs but I'm not sure if I've had one in the last 20 years that I at least could tell was authentic. 

No, I did email them about the abhorrent taste, and they did offer a refund  but I wasn't afraid of authenticity. I knew the vendor I bought them from personally. I have been Switzerland and had drinks with this owner. He is legit, albeit very expensive. 

[dominattorney]

8 hours ago, BoliDan said:

No, I did email them about the abhorrent taste, and they did offer a refund  but I wasn't afraid of authenticity. I knew the vendor I bought them from personally. I have been Switzerland and had drinks with this owner. He is legit, albeit very expensive. 

I had this happen with a box of PSD4 once that avowed up really wet. Tasted awful but after a few months they were fine. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I got the wrong box once, but it was similar size and value so it was all good to me and vendor.