Hypothetical: New Covid variant & your response next time around.

[El Presidente]

Hypothetical: New Covid variant & your response next time around. 

This question was the core of a fascinating discussion on Deck Friday with the extended crew. It was based on two new variants and clickbait media reports. 

Note: This is not a US political question.  It shouldn't come as a surprise to some that Covid and the varied responses happened globally.

There is no need to discuss US politicians, public servants etal

The question was what would you do differently in the following scenario?

 

Highly aggressive strain takes a foothold in your country. The Government (state/Federal) recommends full masks, updated vaccinations and a stay at home policy for all but emergency services. 

 

Given the lessons from 2020-22 , would you do the same again? (whatever that was). 

 

Respectful commentary only. 

[Cigar-Therapy]

the original strains were quite aggressive- are we assuming a higher than original mortality rate?  Is there a big difference in age groups like before? 

I tried to be thoughtful of others even if I thought a lot of it was a little much - as a younger person with decent health - I’ll take my chances  

Take new shot: No, I took the first 2.

Take new shot to travel: unfortunately- yes

Give shot to kids: Didn’t the first time, wouldn’t in this scenario- unless the child mortality rate was high and the risk/reward was skewed towards the shot  my kids had covid multiple times and knocked it out every time 

Comply with Stay at home orders: Didn’t have much choice last time - guess I’d be back on the golf course again.

Asses the information-

Be skeptical of the information-

possibly murder my children for being back at schooling from home….

 

[MagicalBikeRide]

Move to Mars?

 

Being serious, I’d hope that governing bodies would move closer to the model which Sweden adopted. One that considered a wider range of medium to long term health impacts associated with isolation, job loss, loneliness, missed life milestones. reduced earnings, etc. 

I’d also hope there would be lots of lessons learnt from the vaccine roll out. 

[El Presidente]

 

For the record, consensus on the deck was to do whatever necessary to protect our elderly/parents. Vaccinate/isolate/support (them). 

Taking a new Covid shot was 30% yes, 70% no.  Intended compliance to stay at home orders was the same %. 30% Yes and 70% no. 

90% were fully compliant last time around (vaccination and stay at home orders). 

Caveat: If a new vaccine was required for international travel it would move the needle from 30% yes/compliant to 90% yes/compliant,  

[Corylax18]

57 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

clickbait media reports. 

Bingo, there seems to be a new "Strain of concern" almost monthly here in the states. Its weird that none of them have actually been concerning yet. 

57 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

what would you do differently in the following scenario?

Nothing different than I did the first time around. I would continue to live my live the best I could. I actually loved the "lockdown" times. I still travelled monthly/twice monthly for work, through empty airports on nearly empty airplanes. Went to Vegas multiple times and enjoyed the nearly empty Casino's and restaurants. It was like a dream, the world was much more enjoyable for me without being packed full of people. I still spent plenty of time with my family and most of my friends. I would go back to it tomorrow. (although I admit, it was not sustainable from a societal or economic perspective)

47 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Caveat: If a new vaccine was required for international travel it would move the needle from 30% yes/compliant to 90% yes/compliant,  

Same here. I was vaccinated before Cuba reopened, but if I hadn't been, I would have gotten vaccinated in order to start travelling their again. The PCR tests before and at the end of the trip where far more unpleasant for me than getting the vaccine. 

[Nevrknow]

Stay away from people. ( I don't like most anyway 😁) No shot. Never trusted it. Never will. 

[bassistheplace]

live my life free from fear

[Bri Fi]

Prior response for Covid was disastrous. We handed over so many freedoms willingly that I hope won’t happen again. The amount of mental problems I saw from people and children due to social distancing blows my mind. Not to mention all the politics that took place in order for elites to make more money while others suffer. Covid policies did little to save lives and did more to destroy them. I don’t agree with saving old people at the risk of damaging our youth. 
 

but, traffic was nice when people stayed home 

[BrightonCorgi]

35 minutes ago, Bri Fi said:

Not to mention all the politics that took place in order for elites to make more money while others suffer.

That's why we are going to do it again.  Pharma runs the world.

[Glass Half Full]

Ok.  Many of us were and remain lucky to have avoided serious complications from Covid, ...but as a person who was and remains responsible for elderly people, I resent the "hoax" perspective:  Close to 7 million people are said to have perished too young from Covid.  https://covid19.who.int.  

Get the vaccine for goodness sake.  

Is life easier now?  Yes.  Could it all take a wrong turn?  Yes. 

[Namisgr11]

I don't get the resistance to vaccination, and would take a booster dose directed at a new and dangerous strain, should one emerge, without any doubt.  It's such an easy and effective way (no, not completely effective, but effective nonetheless) to protect one's self and others at reducing disease spread and preventing severe disease.  I also have no qualms about wearing high quality masks, and properly so, when in close contact with others in poorly ventilated public spaces.

But lockdowns where all but essential personnel must isolate at home are things reserved for pandemic contagions with high mortality rates.  And now that there's a five day drug treatment in Paxlovid that is highly effective at reducing disease severity even in the elderly, immunocompromised, and otherwise vulnerable, high mortality rates from CoV2 have become a tragic memory of 2020.

Let's all cross our fingers that the H5N1 bird flu doesn't go zoonotic and start making humans sick.  And let's hope that nations will be better prepared for the next pandemic to arise than most of them were for the one that arose in 2020.

[Duxnutz]

Next time I’ll take the retire early offer (company offered those over 60 to punch out, get paid 50% $$$ over the next 5 years) and buy more stocks during the crash. Move to Idaho or Tasmania, buy a floatplane and fish. 

My kid had a speech delay due learning to talk with everyone wearing masks so I do feel we were a bit nutty with the masks (even if somewhat effective). I know I don’t wanna spend days of my life locked up in a hotel for quarantine again. 

[Fireball]

Hindsight is always 20/20. But I wouldn’t change too much.

That being said, I would wear masks at grocery stores and medical places. There are elderly people and people who are just scared- everyone needs food and I am not a jerk. I can have a little empathy for people.

If a business required masks, then I would wear one without a fuss. Again, why make a fuss, I can always go somewhere else if I want.

Vaccine- Covid hit me hard, but I would have to see mortality numbers to decide. Probably no shot for my kid unless the disease was actually affecting kids.

I never felt my rights were curtailed the first time around- so I would not change the way I do most things. I would hope that businesses would be able to function though- I did feel bad for them.

EDIT: my kid is in private school, so she only missed 2 months at the beginning of Covid. That was key for us.

[Midnight]

Best friend (since 4th grade/1977) got the shot and within 24 hours was struck with debilitating arthritis and only after a year were meds able to get it under control enough that he could leave the house.  He is permanently disabled.

Son is on flight status with the military here and the day after given the shot he was in emergency room with chest pains.  -recertified for flight status a month later

Other son got shot - fine...

Hunting buddy's wife got the shot and health began a slow decline and she died (in her deer hunting stand) 9 months later - related???

Both my elderly parents (with other ailments) took the shot and were fine.

 

I am a fair person so I think if a government agent shows up to your door and forces your family to take the shot and someone dies or is disabled from it the the same should be forced on the agent.  You lose a kid - they lose one.  Seems fair.

[dominattorney]

My response last time was what some would politely call cavalier. I don't think the virus was a hoax, but I did not want to get the vaccine right away despite being eligible for some of colorados earliest doses. I waited a year until I was convinced it was likely safe, and then I got it so I could travel. I had covid a few times and beat it, so I was less concerned about myself than infecting my elderly parents. That was a bummer not seeing them for a few years. 

I wore masks because I think it's polite to do so on behalf of others. I'd do pretty much the same again. If I die, I die. I can live with that. I don't want to be responsible for hurting someone else though. 

 

[anacostiakat]

Planning on getting the new updated vax that should be available here in late Sept.  So no biggie for us.  Masking would be not biggie either but currently no masking except when required at clinics/hospitals, etc.

[joeypots]

1 hour ago, Fireball Ron said:

I’ve never been much of a conspiracy person.

   Nor have I.

 I would do what is asked of me by the government if there is a new serious outbreak.  But I have no doubt about the idea that propaganda designed by governments, domestic and foreign, in order to inflame people's inherent bias is posted and printed in all sorts of media with the intention of radicalizing people and destabilizing societies. Vaccines seem to be enough of an issue in people's minds that loads of misinformation is available that would make one question their safety and effectiveness. 

   That said, I haven’t had covid symptoms of tested positive for the virus. I’ve had three Covid 19 jabs. I had a bad case of influenza more than 20 years ago and  fear getting that sick again. This fall I’ll get a flu shot and a updated covid vaccine and thank the universe that I live in an age where such effective tools exist to fight disease.

[porkchop]

2 hours ago, Grateful13 said:

And just to look at how much hate and vitriol they had to anyone who even questioned the governments official lines. I see most of these self righteous fools are yet to weigh in on this thread! 

Kudos for putting this out there. A bunch of people did get it spectacularly wrong. 

7 hours ago, Duxnutz said:

Next time I’ll take the retire early offer (company offered those over 60 to punch out, get paid 50% $$$ over the next 5 years) and buy more stocks during the crash. Move to Idaho or Tasmania, buy a floatplane and fish. 

My kid had a speech delay due learning to talk with everyone wearing masks so I do feel we were a bit nutty with the masks (even if somewhat effective). I know I don’t wanna spend days of my life locked up in a hotel for quarantine again. 

When there is blood in the street, buy land. So much $$$$$$$$$ to be made in these disasters. 

 

Overall, if something similar happened again, would look at the information available and make decisions. Just like the last time. 

[Namisgr11]

2 hours ago, Grateful13 said:

It’s hard to believe anyone is still falling for this stuff, especially the “safe and effective” vax stuff.  How many times will they tell you the same lies until you stop falling for it?

Because there's not just the clinical trials that led to authorization for human use, but now the experiences from vaccinating about a billion people carefully collected in countries all across the globe.  That and the field of immunology, of course.

As late as the 1970s, there were a quarter million Americans needing wheelchairs as a long-term consequence of their having contracted polio as children or young adults.  How many crippled folks do you see in wheelchairs today from having contracted polio earlier in life?  The polio virus is just one of many contagious human pathogens for which vaccination has proven safe and effective over the past 70 years, and against which most of us have been immunized since we were little.

[SteveA]

I've avoided COVID so far. I currently know an individual that has been out of work for about 6 weeks now due to COVID. Know bunches of others that got it and it was a bad cold for them.

Masks: yes. Why not if it helps to prevent a rampant virus from spreading.

Vaccine and boosters: yes. Same reason as masks plus it may help me avoid serious illness. Have seen no documented evidence of significant risk.

Stay at home orders: If i have to, I have to, although it sucked. I suspect things would happen differently the second time around, but personally, if a contagious virus is rampant in my community, I'm not hanging out at the local bar. I will continue fishing, hiking, etc.

[Midnight]

4 hours ago, Fireball Ron said:

I personally know people who died from Covid. I don’t personally know anyone that had a bad vaccine complication. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, it just my perspective.

And I also have a very hard time believing that all of the doctors and scientists that worked towards a vaccine somehow only cared about money and not helping people. But then again, I’ve never been much of a conspiracy person. The vaccine is what it is- an attempt by people to do the best thing they could for the overall population for the problem at hand.

I don't think anyone is saying that your doctor would make conscious decisions to put you in harms way.   

It does sound like you are saying that big corporate executives always have your best interest in mind and not money, people in government always have your best interest in mind and not maintaining power, leaders that hold power over you never tell you they will do one thing and then follow their own messed up ideas, when they do make huge mistakes that harm people they never cover it up or defer blame, and the political class does not attract mostly self absorbed, power hungry, narcissists. 

What country do you live in?  I want to live there!  Seriously. 

 

[El Presidente]

Those morons  that cannot help but denigrate others will be shown the door. 

Engage in a civil discussion .....or pack up and piss off. 

[gormag38]

Man I don't know how it is in Oz but in America it seems people are still very much divided on this issue. Despite it being far less of a factor in our every day lives. 

For me: if I was asked to wear a mask again I would. Yes it sucked, but yes it also works as a deterrent. (pending mass use).

I got the first two vaccines but never got around to getting any of the boosters. I've had no side effects and have heard no direct stories of anyone having side effects. (unless, of course, you include my mother in-law who tried to blame her decade long battle with vertigo on the vaccine.🙃)  Do I believe people have been negatively impacted by the vaccines; yes. Do I think other vaccines have impacted folks negatively; yes. Do I think that those folks are in the VAST minority; yes. 

If there were stay at home orders I would still have to go into work. I would comply but would probably be less concerned about making a quick grocery trip than I was before. 

[El Presidente]

4 minutes ago, gormag38 said:

Man I don't know how it is in Oz but in America it seems people are still very much divided on this issue. Despite it being far less of a factor in our every day lives. 

. 

It is only a dividing issue if a group allows it. 

Diversity of opinion is more than fine. Expression of such opinions in a derogatory way is not acceptable. 

Post mortem analysis of the Covid period and how it affects us moving forward is certainly ripe for discussion.

  Discussion, not division. 

[Chibearsv]

All pretty much the same as the first time around for me.

If I'm supposed to wear a mask to get on a plane or go to the store, ok, no big deal.  If fatality rates are high and a recommended vaccine becomes available, ok, I'll take it.  Locking myself in at home for some amount of time, no.  I'm going to the office everyday unless there are barricades to keep me out.  I'll retire before I have to work from home.  Employees can work from home if they choose, just not for me.

In general, I'd be courteous to those around me.  If anyone thinks I'm a moron for taking a vaccine or wearing a mask at someone's request, I don't really care.