What on earth is going on in the UK? "UK plan for supermarket price cap on basic food"

[Shaunster]

9 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

 Ummm, why? Do they not deserve a decent living?

Indeed. A very telling comment there. See how quickly society falls apart without its low skilled workers, that guy will be begging to pay them a decent wage.

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[Meklown]

15 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Ummm, why? Do they not deserve a decent living?

everyone deserves a decent living. many of those who go on strike already have enough for decent living. 

those who contribute more deserve a better living. some workers are just easier to replace whether by other humans or by robots. it's just capitalism. 

[Pigpen]

everyone deserves a decent living. many of those who go on strike already have enough for decent living. 
those who contribute more deserve a better living. some workers are just easier to replace whether by other humans or by robots. it's just capitalism. 

Who is the arbiter of a living being decent though ? Or the arbiter of who or what makes a greater contribution ? Accept that a skilled profession such as surgeon warrants a level of remuneration higher than that of an unskilled eg crop picker, but you only have to look at the amount of crops that went unpicked last year in the uk to see that if the remuneration isn’t attractive enough the work isn’t going to get done. As for robots picking for example soft fruits, we aren’t at that level of sophistication yet and if you can’t get food on the tables at an affordable price then a crop picker becomes more valuable in some senses than a surgeon ( extreme example used ) plus you also have to factor in the social effect of having large number of people below the breadline ….


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[MrBirdman]

22 minutes ago, Meklown said:

some workers are just easier to replace whether by other humans or by robots. it's just capitalism. 

That would seem to suggest they need more leverage, not less, if everyone deserves to make a decent living as you say. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

2 hours ago, Meklown said:

everyone deserves a decent living. many of those who go on strike already have enough for decent living. 

those who contribute more deserve a better living. some workers are just easier to replace whether by other humans or by robots. it's just capitalism. 

Here's the real thing to think about:

What happens when the robots replace both the humans picking the fruit and the humans doing the surgery?

[Pigpen]

Here's the real thing to think about:
What happens when the robots replace both the humans picking the fruit and the humans doing the surgery?

When that happens , I will start smoking all my best cigars and drinking my best booze as it’s the beginning of the end my friend


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[Cigar Surgeon]

20 minutes ago, Pigpen said:

When that happens , I will start smoking all my best cigars and drinking my best booze as it’s the beginning of the end my friend


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🤣

[Meklown]

5 hours ago, Pigpen said:

Or the arbiter of who or what makes a greater contribution ?

Free market forces. If the service or product you provide is valuable enough, the associated wages would increase. Supply and demand will bring equilibrium without the need for government or union intervention. 

5 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

That would seem to suggest they need more leverage, not less, if everyone deserves to make a decent living as you say. 

I humbly disagree. Take for example if the rubbish collectors decide that their wage is not decent enough, they should quit and go be .. fruit pickers instead (assuming fruit pickers paid better). Once enough rubbish collectors quit and rubbish starts piling up on the streets, the companies/govt will increase the wages of rubbish collectors to a point where it will attract enough workers (whether they be the old workers who quit, or new workers who are willing to do that job for that price).

If fruits are rotting away on plants because they aren't being picked, it just means that the selling price of fruit is too low and hence cannot justify higher wages for the pickers. If this fruit is particularly valuable to the market (and demand outstrips supply), the price will increase, and those farmers can then have the budget to hire pickers. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

What happens when the robots replace both the humans picking the fruit and the humans doing the surgery?

☠️ I actually think it's gonna be upon us at an accelerating rate

[Pigpen]

 I actually think it's gonna be upon us at an accelerating rate

Which country would you point to as being a shining success with this completely free market approach ?


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[Webbo]

4 hours ago, Meklown said:

Free market forces. If the service or product you provide is valuable enough, the associated wages would increase. Supply and demand will bring equilibrium without the need for government or union intervention.

Take the example of a nurse in the UK. This has simply not happened. One of the most valuable services possible yet wages are shit and many have to resort to food banks and family credits to make ends meet and simply put food on the table. 

 

4 hours ago, Meklown said:

If fruits are rotting away on plants because they aren't being picked, it just means that the selling price of fruit is too low and hence cannot justify higher wages for the pickers. If this fruit is particularly valuable to the market (and demand outstrips supply), the price will increase, and those farmers can then have the budget to hire pickers. 

And thus the price of food rises, inflation goes up and the nurse who’s wages don’t keep pace falls even further behind. Their union ask for inflation related increases, the government says we can’t afford it. That’s how we end up in the unbelievable situation of a potential price cap on basic goods which was the thrust of Robs original post. 

[99call]

2 hours ago, Meklown said:

Free market forces. If the service or product you provide is valuable enough, the associated wages would increase

I'm sorry there is very little that is 'Free' in the market forces in the UK.    How many city jobs are held by the brightest and the best? how many of them simply went to the right school and are happy to throw their morals in the bin for financial reward?  I know some of these people, there worlds are full of nepotism, old boy networks etc, etc, 

Also whenever anything gets voiced with regards to increased taxation or regulation, fat cats are the first to bleat........"that's it, I'm leaving I'm taking my business elsewhere!!"  even though many of them already bloody live in tax havens.  You don't the the tabloids slagging them out for not being patriotic. 

The notion that certain industries are paid a kings ransom because they are just "worth it". is utter bollocks,  it's been back engineered that way.  Closeted classes of power that regulate their own worth and pay.   

The very fact that nurses are paid poorly, is probably because they are humble, caring, decent, fair people.  These are all traits that people who are obsessed with money/power view as weakness. 

 

 

[MrBirdman]

2 hours ago, Meklown said:

Once enough rubbish collectors quit and rubbish starts piling up on the streets, the companies/govt will increase the wages of rubbish collectors to a point where it will attract enough workers

Yeah…that’s not how reality works except in an Ayn Rand novel. Rather than ask people to starve for the hope of better wages I think it makes more sense to allow workers to organize to collectively bargain ahead of time. And in any case I see no reason why the trash men don’t get a union but the doctors do. They’re the people who can least afford to quit in the hopes wages improve. 

There’s a word for your attitude: elitist. 

[Meklown]

4 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

There’s a word for your attitude: elitist

Maybe.

Thanks for the exchange guys, I can definitely say I've learnt some things 

[99call]

For anyone interested this is a very fair evenhanded take on whats going on with food costs in the UK