Supply/Market Update.

[LordAnubis]

What I’m getting out of this is everything is cohiba robustos 😁

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

but they dont go to the warehouse to selected "rass tobacco" or "cohiba tobacco" 

I'm a little confused... what's the communication flow to determine what leaf is allocated to what cigars? By that I mean how do the factory managers know the bales they select at the warehouse are for Cohiba or Partagas? 

I'm not sure what the blenders would need to know but I would think they'd have to know at least what marca they're blending for. And some marcas have different blends for the same vitola like RyJ PC & MF. 

And then who tells the banders what bands to put on what cigars? 

3 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

What I’m getting out of this is everything is cohiba robustos 😁

Well, that's basically the result of the premise. Although Cohiba leaf would always be fermented a second time in the barrels at El Laguito so I suppose that leaf could be kept separate. 

I've just never bought the "generic" vitola argument. Over nearly 30 years I've smoked too many cigars that differ too greatly. I may not be a blind tasting champion but the day I can't tell a Famosos from a Choix Supreme is the day I hang up the spikes. 

[SCgarman]

10 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm a little confused... what's the communication flow to determine what leaf is allocated to what cigars? By that I mean how do the factory managers know the bales they select at the warehouse are for Cohiba or Partagas? 

I'm not sure what the blenders would need to know but I would think they'd have to know at least what marca they're blending for. And some marcas have different blends for the same vitola like RyJ PC & MF. 

And then who tells the banders what bands to put on what cigars? 

Well, that's basically the result of the premise. Although Cohiba leaf would always be fermented a second time in the barrels at El Laguito so I suppose that leaf could be kept separate. 

I've just never bought the "generic" vitola argument. Over nearly 30 years I've smoked too many cigars that differ too greatly. I may not be a blind tasting champion but the day I can't tell a Famosos from a Choix Supreme is the day I hang up the spikes. 

A Famoso is a flavorful cigar, a Choix Supreme tastes like smoking rolled up newspaper to me. Distinctly different. 

[Corylax18]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:42 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm a little confused... what's the communication flow to determine what leaf is allocated to what cigars? By that I mean how do the factory managers know the bales they select at the warehouse are for Cohiba or Partagas? 

Those markings on the bale indicate which Tabacuba processing facility the tobacco came from, its grade and the Priming or strength. That's as detailed as it gets. As I quoted above, HSA says the tobacco institute keeps detailed records of what rough flavor profiles each sub region should generate, but its highly variable. The master blenders have that info, for what its worth. But A bundle like that often contain leaves from 5, 10, 15, maybe more farms, farms that often grow different strains. Within each of those stacks the Blender is preparing, every leaf could be from a different farm and of a different strain of tobacco. One leaf of Criollo from x Farm, next to a leaf of Corojo from Y farm, next to a leaf of Habano from Z farm. The blenders have an almost impossible job to do. 

On 5/11/2023 at 12:42 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

I may not be a blind tasting champion but the day I can't tell a Famosos from a Choix Supreme is the day I hang up the spikes. 

The results of the blind tastings here and plenty I've participated in other places (mainly in Cuba) show that people don't have nearly the palate they think they do. People guessing right 30% of the time, year after year, location after location leads me to believe its more than just rookies with inexperienced palates that can't tell. The bands lead to a tremendous amount of "confirmation bias". 

On 5/11/2023 at 12:42 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

Although Cohiba leaf would always be fermented a second time in the barrels at El Laguito so I suppose that leaf could be kept separate. 

Another fanciful tale of marketing, nothing more. You can see the barrels you mention in the 2nd photo of my 2nd post above, those 15 or 16 barrels make up 100% of the facilities for this "4th fermentation" on the entire island. They couldn't even store a weeks worth of tobacco for EL production, let alone all Cohiba rolled all over the island. I've asked to see them every time I visit La Corona, Partagas/Upmann, Fransisco Donatien and they look at me like I'm crazy. They're also lined with super thick black plastic as you can see in the photos, so that would completely eliminate any interaction between the Oak barrels and the tobacco itself. 

I asked both the master blender and the factory manager about how these barrels where used on the trip pictured. Both said they use them to "temper" or "air out" ligero that comes in and that all that tobacco doesn't necessarily even go into Cohibas.(El Laguito rolled E2s are legendary for a reason) Also, all Cohibas don't contain ligero, so the story just completely falls apart. I've spent years exploring every inch of Cuba I can get to, every stripping house, sorting barn and factory I can get access to and I've never seen or even heard of a location where "Cohiba Tobacco" gets its 4th fermentation. Those barrels pictured above are it. Now, if some explorer finds this "Fountain of Youth" I'd be happy to change my tune, but nothing I've learned in Cuba indicates that it exists. 

[Bijan]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

The results of the blind tastings here and plenty I've participated in other places (mainly in Cuba) show that people dont have nearly the pallet they think they do. People guessing right 30% of the time, year after year, location after location leads me to believe its more than just rookies with inexperienced palettes that cant tell. The bands lead to a tremendous amount of "confirmation bias". 

Blind tasting of wine is worse. Often even by the experts. And wine is way more consistent than CCs.

If we had blind tastings that were 5 examples of cigar A vs 5 examples of cigar B, would we still have everyone guessing wrong?

Edit: A/B tests are about as good as you get with most things (when humans are involved). Imagine you had a 4 way or 7 way blind coffee tasting.

I drink a lot of coffee, and I'm not terrible at tasting, but I don't ever look for tasting notes when drinking coffee. At best I could tell which ones were more bitter, more sweet or more sour/acidic.

[ha_banos]

This is when I throw out The Judgement of Paris 😁 Some have scoffed that the fashion for fruity wines ruined everything.

And who's this guy anyway?

https://timatkin.com/the-truth-about-the-1976-judgment-of-paris/

There's always parallels drawn between wine and cigars!

[JohnS]

Yes, well...that was an infamous moment in the history of wine tasting, wasn't it?

[ha_banos]

Speaking of Monte 4's... currently being offered in bulk deals in UK.

Edited May 13, 2023 by LordAnubis
Removed info

[LordAnubis]

There was that post about cigarmageddon. Coro are on sale at a vendor. On sale. And not sold out yet. The end is near. 

[ha_banos]

7 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

There was that post about cigarmageddon. Coro are on sale at a vendor. On sale. And not sold out yet. The end is near. 

yup. those too. still crazy ££.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by LordAnubis
Removed info

[NSXCIGAR]

7 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

There was that post about cigarmageddon. Coro are on sale at a vendor. On sale. And not sold out yet. The end is near. 

That was before the glut of $1,200 CoRo were revealed to be fake. 

All I can say is large Cohiba production must be next to nothing for prices to double in 5 months and still be hard to find.