EAR: Retailer woes.

[BrightonCorgi]

The charge back on a delivered item is a bridge too far. 

Did the buyer ask for the cigars to be inspected?  Did the buyer offer any resolutions beyond an exchange?  I've never sent a box back. 

I ask the few vendors I use, what is good (at the time of order) and just go with their recommendation.  If they said it's good, they inspected the cigar, I think that mitigates getting a lousy box as much as possible.  I realize it's take what you can get in this market today 😢

 

[99call]

I feel massive sympathy for retailers at the moment, all these things happening at once

1, Customers scrabbling around and desperate for product more than ever

2, Supply and delivery routes still difficult and messed up

3, The ongoing shit show that is HSA.

4, On going inconsistency in the product itself.  

I had to send an order back recently, for a reason I wont go into.   No fault of the supplier.  My line of communication was "charge me whatever you see fit, restocking, inconvenience charge etc).    I want to keep in the good graces of good retailers.......there are only a handful out there. 

Generally if someone is going to spit their dummy out, it will usually involve being a bit green to Cuban Cigars, and the standard pitfall.   if people communicate openly and honestly a solution can be found.   

But someone saying  "I smoked these cigars......and now i've decided I don't like them".  Welllll!!???......my sympathy is very much with the retailer on this one. 

It's also worth thinking about unforseen issues that may come along.  Pre-Brexit I had dozens of potential suppliers.  Post that god awful outcome, I have 1 maybe 2 at a push. 

Be nice, be empathetic, be respectful

 

[Cigar Surgeon]

As far as I'm concerned a chargeback is only warranted when the retailer fails to deliver a product or partially delivers a product and fails to rectify. In this case EAR's issue is with Habanos S.A.  Good luck with that.

The sad thing is that this is only going to get worse.

[jakebarnes]

Retailer responsibilites: wrong product/misstated product; storage conditions prior to shipping (mold, dry, beetles prior to ship); product condition prior to shipping; poor shipping/packaging

Everything else is the sort of the "caveat emptor" of buying CCs--there's gonna be QC issues most likely and that's sort of a known quantity already. 

[MrBirdman]

While doing a chargeback in this instance is uncalled for (and no way to treat someone with whom you’ve had a long term business relationship, even if you feel slighted), the fact is that retailers are going to have to expect this kind of attitude more. With price hikes, some Cuban cigars are already entering the “rip-off” territory (and many more are getting perilously close), and that’s before accounting for the terrible QC. People new to Cuban cigars may not realized that’s part of the price of entry, especially if their prior experience is with NC. 

That being said, even in the NC world you aren’t getting a refund purely on taste, and certainly not a full box refund for two duds. The only time I’ve asked for a partial refund is when there is damage or there are visible construction issues with some of the sticks, and I’ve never had a problem getting a credit for those sticks on the rare occasions it’s happened (and that’s across multiple vendors including FOH). I wouldn’t be expecting a full box refund even if two cigars were MISSING!  

[Çnote]

I've never considered a chargeback for CC. It's been well enough that a vendor is willing to ship, pre-cigarapolocalypse and now.

The only problem I've had with NC vendors is bad website inventory, ie I get a call within an hour of my order explaining that inventory is off, we come to a resolution (pack me up whatever makes sense given I'm shopping for x), and the occasional bad communication (I called ahead of my order seeking clarification, was given bad info, package was wrong due to bad info, more cigars shipped after the report.)

I don't ever want my money back, I just want cigars! Even something close to what I wanted will often do the trick, especially with a doubledip discount for the trouble.

On the other side, I have been (and personally) offer replacements for badly burning cigars, even when I know it's user error. Deathgrip on a rare Fuente causes a delicate wrapper to crack and fall off in front of me? Alas, I'm dipping into my personal stock to replace that.

I know a place that can't keep Davidoff on the shelf, so packages go up on the shelf within minutes of arrival; almost guaranteed that the wrappers burst 1/3 in when smoked on site for the next few days/weeks. A more well heeled buddy and I meet there often, he always arrives early and bags up 10+ Davidoff, I always smoke one due to his peer pressure and have to wave off the 'please let me replace that' from the attendant. It's a tough world where retailers cannot manage stock well enough to avoid issues with stock...

[SCgarman]

The chargeback was inappropriate and ethically wrong. The jack wagon who did that deserves all the blacklisting he/she gets. No fraud, failure to deliver product or anything else nefarious done by the retailer. No sympathy from me. 

[Silverstix]

Someone who has been in the game that long and bought that many boxes should know better than to expect a refund because of taste.  Feels like there is more to this story

[LordAnubis]

I was contemplating posting a similar topic myself. In this case Cubans have always been a dice roll. Unless the box was advertised specifically with a pic or something as some vendors do and you didn’t get what what was described. If you’re bought blind like you do from most retailers you get what you’re given. Even if it was a box of damaged sticks, I’d let it roll and move on with my life. 
 

However. I do think customer service standards have dropped overall in various retailers. Cigars fly off the shelf by themselves. No need to reply to customer complaints and questions. There’s always another no questions asked buyer right behind them. 

[BlueRidgeFly]

Would have never even crossed my mind to get a refund “on the basis of taste.” Don’t know how that person could think it’s justified. When I’ve gotten cigars that taste off, I leave them alone for months or longer. They usually improve, sometimes massively, both NCs and CCs.

[bates40]

So I guess it is okay for retailers to pull and smoke a stick from each box they sell to you, at your expense, ya know, just to make sure they are okay? 

[dominattorney]

I would never charge back a credit card unless the cigars were clearly damaged and it was obvious that the damage should have been discovered by the retailer and not caused during shipping. Even then, I hesitate to believe I would do a charge back. If I were unhappy with the retailer's response to a legitimate complaint, I would just leave well enough alone and shop elsewhere in the future. 

[BrightonCorgi]

The story and outcome would be much different if he bought these in person at a B&M.  The owner would likely exchange the box and that's that.  There's something to be said about B&M's even if it may cost a little more.

I've returned wine stores on several occasions.  Couldn't do that online.  I am stuck with the corked bottle they sent me.  Even though corked bottles are a given small percent, B&M's will refund or exchange the bottles.  They'll send it back to the distributor...

[dominattorney]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

The story and outcome would be much different if he bought these in person at a B&M.  The owner would likely exchange the box and that's that.  There's something to be said about B&M's even if it may cost a little more.

I've returned wine stores on several occasions.  Couldn't do that online.  I am stuck with the corked bottle they sent me.  Even though corked bottles are a given small percent, B&M's will refund or exchange the bottles.  They'll send it back to the distributor...

This is an excellent perspective.  I think people fail to realize the logistical hurdles attendant to online retailing.  You've got to put on a cheery face over a de-personalizing medium. It's not as easy as people think.  You've also got to keep your eye on shipping and factor those costs into your bottom line, all the while trying to stay competitive when you're basically selling the same thing as the other guy with an online storefront.  The customer is happy as a clam when things go right, but then there are some who will turn a fit upon the first difficulty.  If your box was water damaged or moldy, you've got grounds to send an email and seek redress.  If it "just doesn't taste as good as I hoped it would" I don't blame a retailer for replying in a cold manner.  That's the game.  If they did a great job for 20 years, that says a lot.  I'd just be happy and try again if I still felt it was justified at the prices cigars are on offer for these days.  I haven't gotten a corked bottle of wine from an online shop, but I've had boxes of cigars that I've found to be less than I expected.  Just chalk it up to what you knew when you started the hobby--some cigars, especially Cubans, are not as good as others.  I can understand the heartache being a bit more pressing now that prices have gone through the roof, but that's just part of the cost/benefit analysis for me.  I will buy fewer Cubans because the risk of sub-optimal boxes at the current prices does not justify the expense.  It used to justify the expense in spades.  I'd expect to toss 3-5 cigars per box for either being plugged, open draw, or not tasting like they should.  That was factored into the price point.  I doubt I'd even return a box that "didn't taste as good as I'd hoped" to a B&M, but that's just me.