The Cuban rum master preserves a century-old tradition

[El Presidente]

The Cuban rum master preserves a century-old tradition

Rum-maker Cesar Marti takes pride in the unique aromas and natural maturation process of his American oak barrels.

 

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[helix]

Those barrels look ancient . Wonder if they are always reusing barrels they have or can they get new barrels ?

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, helix said:

Those barrels look ancient . Wonder if they are always reusing barrels they have or can they get new barrels ?

plenty of spirit makers do not use new barrels. think of all the whisky producers - rare there. think of all the sherry barrel whiskies as an example. much more common, obviously, with bourbon. as a generalisation, rum goes for used bourbon barrels. i don't think they'd chase new barrels even if they could get them. 

[GoodStix]

Yep.  Malt whisky makers are always sourcing new barrels, ex-bourbon and sherry, or their whisky will be shyte.  Old wood doesn’t mature new-make well.  The sherry barrels aren’t ex-solera (those get used near forever, sherry producers don’t want wood in their sherry), nor are they mature sherry transport casks which were the old GREAT source of sherried malts like old Macallan (Spain ended bulk transport of named sherry in the mid 80s). Today’s “sherry casks” are coopered and seasoned with young sherry for the whisky industry.  Anyways, malt whisky makers use a high proportion of new barrels/casks in their mix.  Old wood (third fill and beyond) is more for cheap grain whisky.  Those rum producers aren’t “maturing” rum in the whisky sense, drawing out wood compounds (in addition to oxidation), they’re simply oxidizing the rum, similar to sherry bodegas.

[Ken Gargett]

17 minutes ago, GoodStix said:

Yep.  Malt whisky makers are always sourcing new barrels, ex-bourbon and sherry, or their whisky will be shyte.  Old wood doesn’t mature new-make well.  The sherry barrels aren’t ex-solera (those get used near forever, sherry producers don’t want wood in their sherry), nor are they sherry transport casks which were the old GREAT source of sherried malts like old Macallan (Spain ended bulk transport of named sherry in the mid 80s). Today’s “sherry casks” are coopered and seasoned with sherry for the whisky industry.  Anyways, malt whisky makers use a high proportion of new barrels/casks in their mix.  Old wood (third fill and beyond) is more for cheap grain whisky.  Those rum producers aren’t “maturing” rum in the whisky sense, drawing out wood compounds (in addition to oxidation), they’re simply oxidizing the rum, similar to sherry bodegas.

not sure i'm completely on board with some of this. the ex-sherry casks are certainly "prepared" for the Scottish whisky industry over a period of 6 to 24 months, give or take. and that liquid is not legally sherry so can't be sold as such. but ex-sherry casks would be well less than 5% of what is used in Scotland. 95% of malts see ex-bourbon casks. this is because it is a requirement that bourbon be matured in new oak. it means a hell of a lot of casks become available. but they have been used for bourbon. they are not new. there is very little Scottish whisky that goes into new casks - you can find a few "virgin" malts but not that many. 

[GoodStix]

@Ken Gargett Actually we’re in complete agreement.  Yes, the seasoning “sherry” technically isn’t sherry yet.  Just young wine from sherry grapes in the Jerez sherry triangle.  Yes, all US bourbon must use virgin oak, then the Scots buy and use the barrels for maturing malts.  When I used the term “new casks”, I didn’t mean virgin oak, I mean “new” in the Scottish sense which means 1st fill casks (new to the Scots and first time filled with Scotch malt new-make, after one time virgin use by bourbon makers).  We’re saying the same thing, I perhaps wasn’t clear.  The OP was wondering if rum producers could still get “new casks”, which I took to mean ex-bourbon barrels from US makers, same as the Scots do.  And your comments about Scotch malts rarely being aged in virgin oak are spot on 👍.  Sorry I wasn’t clear.

[Cigar Surgeon]

11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

not sure i'm completely on board with some of this. the ex-sherry casks are certainly "prepared" for the Scottish whisky industry over a period of 6 to 24 months, give or take. and that liquid is not legally sherry so can't be sold as such. but ex-sherry casks would be well less than 5% of what is used in Scotland. 95% of malts see ex-bourbon casks. this is because it is a requirement that bourbon be matured in new oak. it means a hell of a lot of casks become available. but they have been used for bourbon. they are not new. there is very little Scottish whisky that goes into new casks - you can find a few "virgin" malts but not that many. 

That's certainly true of a lot of sherry casks but let's not paint the industry with the same brush. There's a reason why some family owned distilleries have better spirit than others, and it comes down to them getting genuine sherry casks instead of splash and dump versions. 

And I should stop calling them sherry casks, they're sherry butts. Call them casks around George Grant and you'll get a 5 minute ear full 🤣

12 hours ago, GoodStix said:

Yep.  Malt whisky makers are always sourcing new barrels, ex-bourbon and sherry, or their whisky will be shyte.  Old wood doesn’t mature new-make well.  The sherry barrels aren’t ex-solera (those get used near forever, sherry producers don’t want wood in their sherry), nor are they mature sherry transport casks which were the old GREAT source of sherried malts like old Macallan (Spain ended bulk transport of named sherry in the mid 80s). Today’s “sherry casks” are coopered and seasoned with young sherry for the whisky industry.  Anyways, malt whisky makers use a high proportion of new barrels/casks in their mix.  Old wood (third fill and beyond) is more for cheap grain whisky.  Those rum producers aren’t “maturing” rum in the whisky sense, drawing out wood compounds (in addition to oxidation), they’re simply oxidizing the rum, similar to sherry bodegas.

I've found when it comes to a lot of older sherry expressions, you're better off with a 2nd or even 3rd fill cask versus fresh, otherwise the sherry takes the spirit over completely.

[GoodStix]

4 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

I've found when it comes to a lot of older sherry expressions, you're better off with a 2nd or even 3rd fill cask versus fresh, otherwise the sherry takes the spirit over completely.

Agreed 👍