i shall never surrender.

[generalnegroni]

I will consider an amendment to “no millenial has ever been upset by punctuation.” As with all language, read that as you wish. I do not intend to get into the legal weeds with you unless you send me a substantial amount of bitcoin. I think your suggestion that young people texting should be forced to adopt the language of legal contracts is absurd. The courts have proven themselves capable of adapting to modern language and technology, and contracts continue to be enforced regardless of a missing period. Should you wish to remain perturbed by this is your business. I myself will be trying chateau d’Yquem for the first time this evening and have better things to do.

[generalnegroni]

Emojis are increasingly coming up in court cases. Judges are struggling with how to interpret them

By Samantha Murphy Kelly, CNN Business 

Updated 10:33 AM EDT, Mon July 08, 2019

 

New York(CNN Business)Can a knife emoji double as a threat to kill someone? Does a heart emoji from a manager constitute sexual harassment?

More emojis are showing up in court cases throughout the United States. Attorneys are having to argue for different interpretations of the small illustratedcharacters that are used to express emotions, activities or objects. And courts are struggling to handle the nuances of emojis as evidence.

"Many courts haven't had to deal with the emoji much, but the numbers are up and it will likely increase," Vinson & Elkins partner Jason Levine, who has worked on cases with emojis as evidence, told CNN Business. "Judges aren't prepared for the influx, especially ones who are older and may not be familiar with newer vernacular."

 

The number of reported cases with emojis as evidence in the United States increased from 33 in 2017 to 53 in 2018, and is at nearly 50 so far in the first half of 2019, according to Eric Goldman, a Santa Clara University law professor who monitors court opinions that are made public.

Virtual kidnappings are rattling families across the US

No court guidelines exist on how to approach the topic. Sometimes a judge might describe the emoji in question to jurors, rather than allow them to see and interpret it for themselves. In some cases, emojis are omitted from evidence altogether, Goldman said.

Emojis are most prevalent in sexual harassment and criminal cases. An emoji with Xs for eyes — also known as the "dizzy face emoji" — was an issue in a 2017 murder case in Massachusetts. Prosecutors arguedthat the emoji showed that an individual who received it knew "something was happening."

Emojis are increasingly showing up in workplace lawsuits, too. For example, in an employee termination case related to a possible violation of family medical leave, a manager sent a series of smiley face emojis. The plantiff's lawyers claimed it was evidence the company was happy to let her go.

"Someone may use threatening symbols, a gun, a pointed finger, and then behind it put a symbol for 'just joking,'" said attorney Karen S. Elliott of Eckert Seamans Cherin & Mellott, a firm that has worked on cases with emojis. "There is a lot that could get lost in the translation. Was it a joke? Or was it serious? Or was the person just using the emoji to hedge so that they could later argue it was not serious?"

 

Emojis are not a 'universal language'

 

There are more than 2,823 emojis set by the Unicode Consortium, ranging from food and drink to hand gestures, activities and facial expressions.

Emojis can be especially misinterpreted when used without text, according to ABI Research analyst Stephanie Tomsett. For example, a face with sunglasses could be used to convey a sunny day, feeling cool or "deal with it." Similarly, the emoji with smoke coming out of the nose could be read as "angry" when it's intended to mean "triumph." 

The "truimph" emoji renders differently on varying platforms.

 

"Emojis cannot be considered a universal language," Tomsett said. 

That's especially true when you consider how symbols vary by culture. The thumbs-up gesture has been up for debate as offensive or vulgar in the Middle East, while it's a sign of something good in other parts of the world. A smiley face emoji is taken as sarcasm in China. 

But one of the biggest points of contention for emojis in court cases is that they render differently on varying platforms, whether you're using, say, an Apple iPhone or a Samsung Galaxy device. Although the Unicode Consortium sets the standard for emojis, software makers, such as Apple and Google, then design versions for their platforms, opening up a path for inconsistencies and miscommunication. For example, the pistol emoji looks like a real gun on some devices and a water or toy gun on others. 

In a 2016 study from the University of Minnesota, participants rated popular emoji characters on Android and iOS as positive or negative. In the case of the emoji called "a grinning face with smiling eyes," some people interpreted the image as "blissfully happy" on Android, while it looked like it was "ready to fight" on iOS.

Slack is ruining my life and I love it

 

Another study found about 25% of participants were unaware the emojis they posted on Twitter could appear differently based on their followers' devices. After being shown how one of their tweets rendered across platforms, 20% said they would have edited or not sent the tweet. 

"Earlier on, we may have all thought all smiley faces were the same, so it might have seemed OK to the courts for the evidence to come in simply as a smiley face," attorney Elliott said. "Then someone realized that the smiley face from Google might be interpreted differently than the smiley face from Apple -- and that might make a difference in the evidence in the case."

 

Was that emoji a joke or a threat?

 

Some experts such as ABI Research's Tomsett argue there should be consistency across platforms to avoid confusion. But she believes standardized emojis are unlikely because platforms want to "stand out and offer unique experiences." However, she believes they could start to look increasingly similar to help alleviate some of these issues.

Attorney Elliott argues courts will need to develop literature that requires lawyers to obtain the exact depiction of what was sent and received on each platform, and show it to the judge and jurors in a case. "Words may not adequately describe the precise emoji meaning," she said. 

Of course, emojis are commonly used to bring levity to conversations. Courts generally recognize attempts at humor, and defendants have invoked "I was just joking" defenses for centuries.

According to Elliott, the courts and judges are becoming more skeptical about this defense in criminal cases because the recipient doesn't know whether it's actually a joke. 

"As long as the threat is conveyed, it remains a threat,' she said. "For example, you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater and then say 'just joking.'"

Some judges omit emojis as evidence because they think it's superfluous, according to professor Goldman. He referenced a sex-trafficking case in which an expert witness detailed how a series of sent emojis, including a crown, high heels and bags of money, provided evidence of prostitution, noting a crown often references a pimp.

"We might not think twice about a crown emoji, but in the sex-trafficking world, it added context," he said. "If a judge said 'omit emoji' and ... wasn't briefed by other parties on its meaning ... that would make it impossible for any of us to audit ... and understand what the court did to independently consider the evidence was irrelevant."

However, Goldman believes the issue will eventually solve itself as more emojis surface in cases. 

"With the proliferation of any new technology, there is an adjustment period for everyone, including judges," he said. "As judges become more familiar and comfortable with emojis, they will figure out the best ways to adapt existing legal principles to [them]."

[generalnegroni]

I’ll leave you with law academic and judge sir Robert Megarry in textbook Modern Legal Drafting, who argued that: “Punctuation is the servant and not the master of substance and meaning.”

[generalnegroni]

Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing? Such a little thing. - Boromir

[MrBirdman]

11 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Neither of those have anything to do with the fact that the 1973 removal was a totally unscientific and political decision

You stated yourself that the study I posted describes the DATA and STUDIES used by the APA to arrive at their decision. How is that “totally unscientific”????? 

What the studies at the time allowed the APA to recognize was that their pathologizing of homosexuality wasn't anything inherent to being homosexual, but people’s natural response to society’s bigotry. To reduce that to political influence implies most at the APA agreed to the change despite their belief that it was still a disorder, which a) has no basis in fact; and b) ignores that those who did retain that belief probably did so out of a belief that homosexuals could never truly be well-adjusted and happy - which, again, is itself a belief grounded in prejudice, not science.

And where is YOUR evidence contradicting the study I posted by someone who presumably knows more than you on the subject (a shocking idea that anyone could know more than you about something, I know!!)

[dominattorney]

I might smoke a cigar later you guys. Anyone wanna talk about that? Now I feel self conscious because my posts, written from my phone in haste, are likely riddled with punctuation and grammar mistakes, to say nothing of the half formed thoughts I toss out while brewing espresso in the morning. 

Anyway, probably a bolivar corona junior today. Love those. 

[Ken Gargett]

12 hours ago, generalnegroni said:

I will consider an amendment to “no millenial has ever been upset by punctuation.” As with all language, read that as you wish. I do not intend to get into the legal weeds with you unless you send me a substantial amount of bitcoin. I think your suggestion that young people texting should be forced to adopt the language of legal contracts is absurd. The courts have proven themselves capable of adapting to modern language and technology, and contracts continue to be enforced regardless of a missing period. Should you wish to remain perturbed by this is your business. I myself will be trying chateau d’Yquem for the first time this evening and have better things to do.

“no millenial has ever been upset by punctuation.” that is one hell of a back track from your original position. but the obvious response to that is that everyone grows up at some stage (that, in case it is not obvious, is not intended as any personal reflection on yourself but on that particular generation). . 

i am, however, completely baffled as to why you would ever have felt that i would be sending you bitcoin or anything else. have i missed something? i can't honestly say that i know a great deal about the relevant generation but they do seem rather entitled. perhaps this rather bizarre expectation stems from that? 

if you do decide to proceed with a legal career - and the best of luck if you do - my advice would be to make certain you read what people actually write and not make stuff up. case in point - my alleged suggestion of forcing young people to adopt the language of legal contracts. really? please, do point out where i made such a suggestion, outside your mind. my initial post merely pointed out the absurdity of turning a full stop into a form of aggression. there is a massive gulf between the two.

i do note that throughout your posts, despite your stated position, you have continued to use full stops. 

of course, courts deal with punctuation and will continue to do so. i would have thought that was blindingly obvious from my posts. the outcome may, however, not always be what one hopes or expects. it has ever been thus. 

you'll forgive me if the only thing i find of any great interest or relevance in your last post is what vintage of yquem? 

 

[El Presidente]

Haven't you guys finished yet? 

[BoliDan]

19 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Haven't you guys finished yet? 

🥱

[Chibearsv]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Haven't you guys finished yet? 

It is fun to read the banter though 😁👏👏👏

[generalnegroni]

6 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

“no millenial has ever been upset by punctuation.” that is one hell of a back track from your original position. but the obvious response to that is that everyone grows up at some stage (that, in case it is not obvious, is not intended as any personal reflection on yourself but on that particular generation). . 

i am, however, completely baffled as to why you would ever have felt that i would be sending you bitcoin or anything else. have i missed something? i can't honestly say that i know a great deal about the relevant generation but they do seem rather entitled. perhaps this rather bizarre expectation stems from that? 

if you do decide to proceed with a legal career - and the best of luck if you do - my advice would be to make certain you read what people actually write and not make stuff up. case in point - my alleged suggestion of forcing young people to adopt the language of legal contracts. really? please, do point out where i made such a suggestion, outside your mind. my initial post merely pointed out the absurdity of turning a full stop into a form of aggression. there is a massive gulf between the two.

i do note that throughout your posts, despite your stated position, you have continued to use full stops. 

of course, courts deal with punctuation and will continue to do so. i would have thought that was blindingly obvious from my posts. the outcome may, however, not always be what one hopes or expects. it has ever been thus. 

you'll forgive me if the only thing i find of any great interest or relevance in your last post is what vintage of yquem? 

 

Thank you Ken. I believe I have provided evidence and dismissed yours, and I enjoyed straw manning you, as you point out. However, you wrote in the title of the post that you would never surrender, and though I consider you dead upon this hill, I will allow that no white flag flutters over your incorrectly punctuated tombstone. It was therefore foolish to have attempted to change your noble mind and you will forgive me the hubristic attempt.

Now I would like your advice. I will submit a sample of a messages that I sent to a friend yesterday, and I would be grateful for your assistance in punctuating then properly. He sent me an 8 minute voice note, and as I listened, I responded in a flow of consciousness. I will contend that my responses do not comprise sentences, and therefore to add a full stop or to punctuate diligently would be inappropriate. I cannot reveal the full context as his messages are private.

Here they are:

 

Smooth from Ben

Threesome!

Ooh Bali

Very cool

Ouch that’s a lot

You need one hour to learn the basics

Then you need to be somewhere safe

Surfing is cheap too if you have a board

Go on like fiverr

Find a freelancer

Or yeah a hotel will find you an instructor

Enjoy your flow going

Could never be me

 

As you may see, most of these are not sentences, and at least half of them would be better suited to semi-colons rather than full-stops. Now, at first sight, I expect you find these messages meaningless, petty, and of no interest whatsoever, but in the context of responding to his voice notes, I assure you that these are pithy, witty, stylised, concise, and most importantly easily understood responses. If I had wished to respond in full sentences, the response would have looked something like this:

 

My dear friend, si vales, bene est, ego valeo.

Thank you for your voice message, I enjoyed listening to it. I was particularly entertained by your story about Indonesia, and though it went in an unforeseen direction, I admire your fellow colleague for his charm.

I am excited to hear of your plans to visit Bali over the Easter holidays, and commend your efforts to learn to surf, a sport I myself enjoy as you know. I hope we may surf together when I visit you next Easter. The prices you have been quoted for surf lessons there seem extortionate. Clearly you will not need a ten day course to master the basics, and the yoga courses masquerading as surf courses should be disregarded. Once you have had a day or even a morning of lessons, I recommend you practise somewhere suitable for beginners with appropriate safety measures. Freelance instructors may be procured for a reasonable price for many things on the app Fiverr, and I speculate that a surfing instructor with flexible rates could be engaged for a morning or day. If not, as you point out, your lodgings might offer a similar arrangement.

While I admire your readiness to travel without a fixed itinerary, my personal preference is for a more detailed schedule in order that I make best use of my time and am not caught, so to speak, with my trousers down. When I visit you next year, please anticipate a higher degree of planning and co-ordination. I look forwards to discussing this further on a call tomorrow morning. 

Yours truly,

generalnegroni Esquire

 

Now, I was able to write my original messages in less than the time it took to listen to my friend’s voice note, and they convey my thinking equally effectively. Anything not written explicitly was communicated implicitly and contextually, and it is the strength of our mutual understanding that is the essence of our deep and long friendship. Our ease of mutual understanding is indeed strengthened and not diminished by our style of communication, and he required no clarification for any of my messages, having understood everything I have explained to you in far less time. Clearly the only thing that needed punctuating was a girl he and a friend met in Indonesia.

I argue that my original messages are far more warm and familiar, expressive and intimate than the traditional style, and, unfortunately, to respond in the style I suspect you will prefer might be received as assery and pomposity, attaching a gravity to the messages they otherwise do not deserve.

I note in the FoH chat box, members often omit punctuation for shorter messages and include it for longer ones, though this seems readily understood and the source of no confusion. I will look forwards to watching you critique some of the President’s messages.

Thank you for enquiring about the Sauternes. It was a 1997 vintage. A dark amber colour, with a delicate apricot aroma. Medium bodied with an infinite finish, the taste was ethereal, the sweetness pure, the acidity faded, and the tannins very fine. The star of the night was actually a Jura Vin Jaune which, for the price, outshone the d’Yquem, though both were very much enjoyed.

Bitcoin may be obtained readily on a modern invention called the internet. Should I ever wish to embark on a legal career, you would be my first and highest advisor. 

[generalnegroni]

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to change my gender

[Ken Gargett]

18 hours ago, generalnegroni said:

Thank you Ken. I believe I have provided evidence and dismissed yours, and I enjoyed straw manning you, as you point out. However, you wrote in the title of the post that you would never surrender, and though I consider you dead upon this hill, I will allow that no white flag flutters over your incorrectly punctuated tombstone. It was therefore foolish to have attempted to change your noble mind and you will forgive me the hubristic attempt.

Now I would like your advice. I will submit a sample of a messages that I sent to a friend yesterday, and I would be grateful for your assistance in punctuating then properly. He sent me an 8 minute voice note, and as I listened, I responded in a flow of consciousness. I will contend that my responses do not comprise sentences, and therefore to add a full stop or to punctuate diligently would be inappropriate. I cannot reveal the full context as his messages are private.

Here they are:

 

Smooth from Ben

Threesome!

Ooh Bali

Very cool

Ouch that’s a lot

You need one hour to learn the basics

Then you need to be somewhere safe

Surfing is cheap too if you have a board

Go on like fiverr

Find a freelancer

Or yeah a hotel will find you an instructor

Enjoy your flow going

Could never be me

 

As you may see, most of these are not sentences, and at least half of them would be better suited to semi-colons rather than full-stops. Now, at first sight, I expect you find these messages meaningless, petty, and of no interest whatsoever, but in the context of responding to his voice notes, I assure you that these are pithy, witty, stylised, concise, and most importantly easily understood responses. If I had wished to respond in full sentences, the response would have looked something like this:

 

My dear friend, si vales, bene est, ego valeo.

Thank you for your voice message, I enjoyed listening to it. I was particularly entertained by your story about Indonesia, and though it went in an unforeseen direction, I admire your fellow colleague for his charm.

I am excited to hear of your plans to visit Bali over the Easter holidays, and commend your efforts to learn to surf, a sport I myself enjoy as you know. I hope we may surf together when I visit you next Easter. The prices you have been quoted for surf lessons there seem extortionate. Clearly you will not need a ten day course to master the basics, and the yoga courses masquerading as surf courses should be disregarded. Once you have had a day or even a morning of lessons, I recommend you practise somewhere suitable for beginners with appropriate safety measures. Freelance instructors may be procured for a reasonable price for many things on the app Fiverr, and I speculate that a surfing instructor with flexible rates could be engaged for a morning or day. If not, as you point out, your lodgings might offer a similar arrangement.

While I admire your readiness to travel without a fixed itinerary, my personal preference is for a more detailed schedule in order that I make best use of my time and am not caught, so to speak, with my trousers down. When I visit you next year, please anticipate a higher degree of planning and co-ordination. I look forwards to discussing this further on a call tomorrow morning. 

Yours truly,

generalnegroni Esquire

 

Now, I was able to write my original messages in less than the time it took to listen to my friend’s voice note, and they convey my thinking equally effectively. Anything not written explicitly was communicated implicitly and contextually, and it is the strength of our mutual understanding that is the essence of our deep and long friendship. Our ease of mutual understanding is indeed strengthened and not diminished by our style of communication, and he required no clarification for any of my messages, having understood everything I have explained to you in far less time. Clearly the only thing that needed punctuating was a girl he and a friend met in Indonesia.

I argue that my original messages are far more warm and familiar, expressive and intimate than the traditional style, and, unfortunately, to respond in the style I suspect you will prefer might be received as assery and pomposity, attaching a gravity to the messages they otherwise do not deserve.

I note in the FoH chat box, members often omit punctuation for shorter messages and include it for longer ones, though this seems readily understood and the source of no confusion. I will look forwards to watching you critique some of the President’s messages.

Thank you for enquiring about the Sauternes. It was a 1997 vintage. A dark amber colour, with a delicate apricot aroma. Medium bodied with an infinite finish, the taste was ethereal, the sweetness pure, the acidity faded, and the tannins very fine. The star of the night was actually a Jura Vin Jaune which, for the price, outshone the d’Yquem, though both were very much enjoyed.

Bitcoin may be obtained readily on a modern invention called the internet. Should I ever wish to embark on a legal career, you would be my first and highest advisor. 

if you'll excuse me, too many deadlines to indulge in entertaining pursuits today but i did see that you seem to think you have proved your point. that is nice. i would suggest that a great many losing defendants and/or plaintiffs have left court thinking exactly that. but it will help you sleep. if and when i can, i will try and return. 

more importantly, yquem will never win on cost and i do like some wines from the jura but i would struggle to go past an yquem, even the 97 (i am merely entertaining myself, of course, the 97 is an excellent vintage). 

until time permits.