To ban or not to ban? The Tik Tok Connundrum

[dominattorney]

4 hours ago, Arabian said:

banning TikTok will not solve the issue, another app will take its place. as long there's demand and interest in what I call silly and cheap content, China or any XYZ country will be happy to supply.  

Or some new hoodie-wearing kid from the USA.  The problem will persist.  I have a real issue with anyone in the west complaining about foreign influence or interference with its affairs.  It's a false flag.  Not only has the west meddled in the affairs of the rest of the world for centuries unimpeded by consequence, but this type of argument also deflects scrutiny from what western corporations are doing on a daily basis in our own backyard. 

[dominattorney]

1 hour ago, MrBirdman said:

I think the existence of those algorithms is well-attested. It’s how they drive up viewership. 70% of YouTube views are from recommended content.

Fair enough.  I should have been more clear.  Is not the algorithm itself proprietary?  How will anyone determine the way it works?  That would be a condition precedent to establish that an algorithm is targeting susceptible young people with content that solicits them to commit criminal acts. 

[Arabian]

37 minutes ago, BEVOSREVENGE said:

I think there is evidence that the US is moving to build a new supply chain that isn't dependent upon China.  It will take time and this is very much similar to the cold war against the USSR in that we intend to isolate China as much as possible.  How can there be any other choice when Xi has made himself president for life and purged all political opponents?

Agree that cleaning up the social media of both foreign and domestic companies would be a prudent practice.

YMMV

Isolating China from whom?. China has a strong presence in many regions and investing heavily in the new silk road, the difference between China and the U.S is that the latter has one more party. I doubt the white house cares about who sits on the throne or political opponents as long as China does not pose a threat to the U.S worldwide hegemony. which I find it interesting, outsourcing pretty much everything to the CCP and turning into a global factory, I'm not sure how U.S policy makers neglected this. 

[MrBirdman]

27 minutes ago, dominattorney said:

  Is not the algorithm itself proprietary? 

That’s what discovery is for! I think there is enough evidence publicly available to make out a plausible claim even in Federal court after Twiqbal. 

[BrightonCorgi]

Parents need to start parenting.

[MrBirdman]

34 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Parents need to start parenting.

Kids don’t always listen to their parents. Social media would require monitoring your kids every waking moment at this point.

If I took a bunch of 13-year olds, pulled them aside and said “Hey, here’s a really cool video about how to steal cars” and they go out and steal them, I think our clear moral intuition would be that I am at least partly responsible. Corporations should be held to the same standard, at least civilly, especially when they’re using methods that are calculatingly refined to engage people with the content anytime, anywhere. Instead we functionally immunize any and all behavior by content platforms just because it occurs on the internet. 

[dominattorney]

27 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

That’s what discovery is for! I think there is enough evidence publicly available to make out a plausible claim even in Federal court after Twiqbal. 

Your faith then, in our legal system, exceeds my own sir. 

[MrBirdman]

2 minutes ago, dominattorney said:

Your faith then, in our legal system, exceeds my own sir. 

That’s the thing - it might be bad but at least it would be a possibility for plaintiffs. Right now these cases are almost invariably dismissed before trial because of Section 230. 

[Meklown]

Nothing more than the cold war mentality fear mongering from the US govt, starting with one party, continued by the next. It's the only thing that they can agree on! 

[SpecialK]

  

 

 

 

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, MrBirdman said:

Kids don’t always listen to their parents. Social media would require monitoring your kids every waking moment at this point.

No electronics for the majority of the day.  I know it sounds like cruelty, but we made it 1,000's of years without.  Phones are the most addictive thing ever created.  You can control the home.

[Guest Nekhyludov]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

You can control the home.

🤣🤣🤣 You don't have young children, do you? This is the kind of arrogant nonsense that childless people and retirees have mercilessly beaten out of them as soon as they confront the realities of parenting.

We have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. They have no tablets or electronics and get 20 minutes of TV once a week. They are literally the ONLY kids we know of who don't have tablets yet. And once they start school, electronics become mandatory for assignments and homework and the game is over.

[BEVOSREVENGE]

8 hours ago, Arabian said:

Isolating China from whom?. China has a strong presence in many regions and investing heavily in the new silk road, the difference between China and the U.S is that the latter has one more party. I doubt the white house cares about who sits on the throne or political opponents as long as China does not pose a threat to the U.S worldwide hegemony. which I find it interesting, outsourcing pretty much everything to the CCP and turning into a global factory, I'm not sure how U.S policy makers neglected this. 

Because one is unaware of what is going on, doesn’t mean it is not happening.

Disagree that the only difference between China and the US is the number of political parties.

I am sure there are many that don’t like a world dominated by the policies of the US or China.  Much like there were likely many that did not like a world dominated by the policies of GB, Spain, the Romans, the Mongols, etc.

[MrBirdman]

7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

No electronics for the majority of the day.  I know it sounds like cruelty, but we made it 1,000's of years without.  Phones are the most addictive thing ever created.  You can control the home.

Great. Kids spend half their day outside of it. I’m not saying the internet is an excuse to give up on good parenting - but handwaving away the problems from social media as bad parenting is facile, to say the least.  

[NSXCIGAR]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:15 PM, MrBirdman said:

Repeal Section 230 immunity

The issue isn't Section 230 itself. Repealing it would destroy the internet as we know it. The issue is that it's not being enforced. Individual companies, acting as they have been, should have lost their immunity long ago. 

The deal was don't engage in editorial behavior and we won't hold you liable for users' behavior. Today 99% of what they do is editorial. All non-public algorithms are editorial. Overly broad terms of service are editorial. They have ignored section 230 and congress does nothing. 

 

On 3/22/2023 at 8:18 AM, Nekhyludov said:

They have no tablets or electronics and get 20 minutes of TV once a week.

I would definitely err on this side, but I had a Nintendo, played it about 2 hrs a day, did as much outdoor stuff as indoor, turned out fine. Lost all interest in video games at 13-14. Seemed pretty organic. All my friends pretty similar. 

I definitely don't see the need for a toddler to have any electronics at all. And there should be no electronics outside the house. If your kid can't handle 30 mins in the car or behave in a restaurant you're doing something wrong. 

[BrightonCorgi]

15 hours ago, Nekhyludov said:

🤣🤣🤣 You don't have young children, do you? This is the kind of arrogant nonsense that childless people and retirees have mercilessly beaten out of them as soon as they confront the realities of parenting.

We have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. They have no tablets or electronics and get 20 minutes of TV once a week. They are literally the ONLY kids we know of who don't have tablets yet. And once they start school, electronics become mandatory for assignments and homework and the game is over.

The only thing that is on par worse with allowing kids electronics beyond the mandatory for school is posting picture of children online, especially in social media.  Cyber security is my industry and I know who perverted and harmful social media is.  The amount of predators actively seeking to harm children solely from online sources is quite an eye opener.   There is very little need for social media and children IMO.

If a child is given an electronic device, it needs be locked down, with timers and reviewed daily by a parent.

[Arabian]

Montana becomes first state to ban TikTok 

 

thoughts? 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 5/21/2023 at 1:46 AM, Arabian said:

Montana becomes first state to ban TikTok 

Well, the spirit is there. 

I just read today that Oracle is considering hosting all of TikTok's US user data. If that happens it will probably end any more discussions of banning TikTok because most people I hear argue against TikTok only bring up the data security issue which to me is a distant second to the problem of influence and psychological damage TikTok causes. That's the real issue. 

On 3/22/2023 at 5:24 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

There is very little need for social media and children IMO.

People have been worshipping their children and using them as props for decades now.