Vacuum Sealing Q’s

[Monterey]

I have noticed no sick period after opening a sealed box.  It may be due to giving the box a year of time to age before I vacuum seal.  I have smoked cigars weeks after opening and have never had an off taste where I thought "these need to rest".  Given around 100 boxes that I've opened and smoked, I feel pretty sure that it must be due to my slight pre-aging before sealing up.

7 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Agreed.  The main reason I vacuum seal at all is I ran out of room in the cabinet and I don't want duplicate boxes in there.  The lack of oxygen slowing or changing their aging is just an incidental.

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I was wondering about sick periods and vacuum sealed boxes.  I've never smoked any from the boxes I sealed.  I've given out a handful for 10 count boxes as gifts, but never one for me to try just yet.

You are giving advice and can speak to the air exchange being "incidental" then mentioned you have never had a single cigar from sealed storage.  (Mic drop)

[Fugu]

3 hours ago, TheGipper said:

Possibly the right way to really test the "hard vacuum" thing is to do with not-full SBN box or a SLB.  But I never bothered to try it.

 

3 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

I guess I could put a few with a partial seal and compare, but really it’s a moot question because I found myself constantly fretting about “the squeeze” on cigars (even thick wood boxes like my Maltes were bowing noticeably with a full seal). Not worth the worry, especially since I am sure home sealers aren’t creating a total vacuum anyway. 

If you guys really want to test the effect of an oxygen-depleted atmosphere, you should better / smarter use an oxygen absorber pad. But then in unit with a true low OTR vacuum film (aluminium- or ceramic-laminated, all else isn’t). No need to mechanically force all the air out. An appropriately sized absorber will take up about 20 percent of the starting volume (just the oxygen share). Include an oxygen indicator and you should be good to go for years.

[avaldes]

I don't think you guys are taking my comments in the spirit intended. I am actually quite interested in the vacuum bagging experiments. For sure certain packing helps slow aging so I'm sure bagging up your boxes is working. Being an engineer, I like to understand the mechanism at play.

I also like to fish and packing fresh fish is something where getting as much vacuum as possible helps keep it fresh for a very long time. The guys who do that regularly use chamber vacuums and THICK bags to get nearly a full vacuum before sealing. It makes a big difference over the food saver machines. But even those leak over time.

As I said earlier, it would be an interesting experiment to use a commercial housing and REALLY pull a full vacuum. Unfortunately for all of us, by the time we understand that impact it will probably be a long time from now.

[alephilmac]

3 hours ago, avaldes said:

I don't think you guys are taking my comments in the spirit intended. I am actually quite interested in the vacuum bagging experiments. For sure certain packing helps slow aging so I'm sure bagging up your boxes is working. Being an engineer, I like to understand the mechanism at play.

I also like to fish and packing fresh fish is something where getting as much vacuum as possible helps keep it fresh for a very long time. The guys who do that regularly use chamber vacuums and THICK bags to get nearly a full vacuum before sealing. It makes a big difference over the food saver machines. But even those leak over time.

As I said earlier, it would be an interesting experiment to use a commercial housing and REALLY pull a full vacuum. Unfortunately for all of us, by the time we understand that impact it will probably be a long time from now.

Maybe it can become a multi-generational experiment. Ha

[Michael303]

I'm curious for feedback from anyone on what you think about vacuum sealing vs an airtight storage bin.  I searched around but didn't find much comparing these two methods. 

Is there a significant difference?  Does vacuum sealing have an advantage in the reduction of the amount of air around the cigars or would a bin with a Boveda pack and more air be advantageous?  As I type this out maybe a better question would be is it better to minimize and seal the air around the cigars or is it better if the air is changed over at some rate?  

I remember watching a video of the Davidoff London storage room and nothing was "sealed" as far as I could tell.  Just temp and humidity controlled.  I imagine that's how most stores and manufactures age their cigars but just because it's been done that way for a long time that may or may not be the best way.  

I did just take delivery of some 5yo Montes that I haven't tried thanks to our hosts.  Nothing else in my humidor is older than about 1.5 years though as my interest in cigars is only that old so these are just some questions I've had rattling around in my head recently.

[Bijan]

On 2/19/2023 at 10:14 PM, Monterey said:

I can tell you that cigars sealed up for 7 years have not lost any intensity.  They have aged without getting mellow.  I plan to report back regularly on this subject over time.  And for the record, everything i sealed up was around 1 year after the box date.

For me, I want to be smoking 8 year old Coros from 2020 in the year 2050.

I look forward to your results around 15-20 years in. I find that 15-20 years is when cigars tend to become hit and miss, in terms of being too mellow or flat.

But I've never stored cigars that long myself, so I don't know if that's what happens naturally, or that it's just a coin toss whether the cigars were stored properly for that period or not (by the previous owner before I got them).

[Montegod7ss]

If you were going to purge would you use Argon that is used in other applications?  It is heavier than air, so purging air wouldn't be all that hard prior to vacuum sealing.  In the end there wouldn't be much argon left in the bag, but there shouldn't be much if any air left.

[MrBirdman]

13 hours ago, Montegod7ss said:

If you were going to purge would you use Argon that is used in other applications?  It is heavier than air, so purging air wouldn't be all that hard prior to vacuum sealing.  In the end there wouldn't be much argon left in the bag, but there shouldn't be much if any air left.

That's a very interesting idea, though it would be expensive since you'd need a fair bit to purge the oxygen for each box. 

[Shrimpchips]

You could nitrous oxide from a whip-it/cream dispenser to flush the air in a bag prior to sealing.  Not sure what effect it would have on aging, but if your aim is to slow things down, it probably wouldn’t hurt. 

[djrey]

Planning on sealing up a good number of my boxes after reading through this. Assuming stored at proper conditions is there any concern for mold growth? Seems that being totally sealed up in plastic could be an idea environment for mold. Thoughts/experience? 

[Montegod7ss]

Watching the cigar aging video from Eddie Sahakian he ages in the 53-57° range, and RH between 63-65%. Curious as well if you all age at low temp and humidity.

[HailState]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:20 PM, Michael303 said:

I'm curious for feedback from anyone on what you think about vacuum sealing vs an airtight storage bin.  I searched around but didn't find much comparing these two methods. 

Is there a significant difference?  Does vacuum sealing have an advantage in the reduction of the amount of air around the cigars or would a bin with a Boveda pack and more air be advantageous?  As I type this out maybe a better question would be is it better to minimize and seal the air around the cigars or is it better if the air is changed over at some rate?  

I remember watching a video of the Davidoff London storage room and nothing was "sealed" as far as I could tell.  Just temp and humidity controlled.  I imagine that's how most stores and manufactures age their cigars but just because it's been done that way for a long time that may or may not be the best way.  

I did just take delivery of some 5yo Montes that I haven't tried thanks to our hosts.  Nothing else in my humidor is older than about 1.5 years though as my interest in cigars is only that old so these are just some questions I've had rattling around in my head recently.

I’m curious about this myself. Does anybody have any experience they could share on vacuum sealing vs keeping in an airtight container with Boveda? Currently all of my “overflow” boxes are in airtight containers with Boveda but am currently researching/debating going the vacuum sealing route.

[Monterey]

Been discussed before.  Just do a search on the subject.

In short, yes, there is a huge difference.  There is no such thing as airtight container unless you had a container that was the exact same size as your box.

I would go more into it, but I've grown tired of people who never vacuum seal tell me that I don't know what I'm doing.

[wjs]

When you seal - is there a Boveda in the mix?

[BrightonCorgi]

5 hours ago, wjs said:

When you seal - is there a Boveda in the mix?

No

[Domsday]

Just looking into this, any recommendations for which vacuum sealer machine to use that’s available in the UK?


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[TheGipper]

51 minutes ago, Domsday said:

Just looking into this, any recommendations for which vacuum sealer machine to use that’s available in the UK?

It's a fairly simple technology, no need to spend a lot.

Features you'll want to look for:

Must have a manual seal button (most have this).

At least 12 inch (30cm) opening, so it can accommodate the 11-11.5 inch (28-29cm) wide bag rolls.  Those size rolls will fit most Habanos boxes.  Only the largest cabs, like 50 count double corona won't fit in that size.

Built-in cutter is nice, but not necessary.

[Domsday]

It's a fairly simple technology, no need to spend a lot.
Features you'll want to look for:
Must have a manual seal button (most have this).
At least 12 inch (30cm) opening, so it can accommodate the 11-11.5 inch (28-29cm) wide bag rolls.  Those size rolls will fit most Habanos boxes.  Only the largest cabs, like 50 count double corona won't fit in that size.
Built-in cutter is nice, but not necessary.

Many thanks!


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