Cohiba and Trinidad is piling up in Cuba....

[Blakes]

7 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

 I'm finding it's much easier than I thought to go without cuban cigars. 

I'm surprised how much easier it is than I thought too...

[Fugu]

9 hours ago, ATGroom said:

Genuine question which perhaps some old-timers might have an answer to: has there ever been a general price decrease of Habanos ever? Was there one in the late 90s when they were rolling tonnes and tonnes of dubious quality stock?

There had been some consolidation with (a slight) setting back of prices exactly around the period you are mentioning, i.e. IIRC 1998-2000 or even up to 2002. But I doubt it was a general HSA policy rather than it lay in the decision of the distributor (5th Ave in this case).

But quite as you and SigmundChurchill address it, it’s a completely different situation today, plus there isn’t a quality issue.

Still, we see in Europe Reyes, Coloniales don’t move right now. So they’ll need a correction or cut. Even former sought-afters like Esmeralda move very slow. Locally, CoRo is >90 percent bought up by Asians. Isn’t bought by locals anymore. Even not by people who’d have the means. Folks still are price/value conscious. But as long as there’s a market taking up all this, no need for HSA to take any action. Trini is a difficult case, however, as HSA still seems to cling to the (original) idea positioning it as a top-top-tier product. Which they killed long ago when deciding to move production out of EL to FD... 

[Hammer Smokin']

wonder if it would be easier to just ship the tobacco to China, roll it there, so it's available where the demand is. 

sounds like I'm joking, but I'm not. 

[vladdraq]

15 hours ago, havanaclub said:

I was in Cuba Jan 1-8 and prices were all over the map.  BBF at this shop was 365 a cab.

I would say BBF at $315 is one of the best deals still available. I haven't seen any tbh. It was $240 before the last hike, it's a no brainer.

[Miguel Gracias]

Not only in Cuba, it was basically every places I've been to. Estancos in Spain, Portugal and LCDHs in Caribbean. I believe those stocks will move to grey vendors just like pre-Covid era. 

[jakebarnes]

2 hours ago, Miguel Gracias said:

Not only in Cuba, it was basically every places I've been to. Estancos in Spain, Portugal and LCDHs in Caribbean. I believe those stocks will move to grey vendors just like pre-Covid era. 

Hopefully at a good price. Would love more Coloniales.

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, Miguel Gracias said:

I believe those stocks will move to grey vendors just like pre-Covid era. 

Unless distributor discounting starts, there will be little incentive as end retail price required will run into the same issue that has seen the Siglo 1, Reyes, Coloniales pile up. 

Distributors are better not ordering. Grey market better off concentrating elsewhere. 

[Double Time]

Passing through Dubai for work last week and same situation with the LCDH Dutyfree T3 stock. The ONLY sticks of any decent ring gauge sitting there are NC's and Trinidad Vigia. I actually had a conversation on the very subject of the pricing for the Vigia with another cigar smoker in there and we both agreed they are shooting themselves in the foot with those prices.

I had a couple of boxes in the past. The first box was sensational, second not so much. It's disappointing to say the least either way. No more trinidad for moi!  

[NSXCIGAR]

7 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

wonder if it would be easier to just ship the tobacco to China, roll it there, so it's available where the demand is. 

sounds like I'm joking, but I'm not. 

That would hurt the other markets. They'd just be giving PCC all the profit and depriving the small number of top end buyers in the other markets of any Cohiba whatsoever. 

At least the local economies are benefitting from the Chinese swarming in. 

8 hours ago, Fugu said:

But as long as there’s a market taking up all this, no need for HSA to take any action. Trini is a difficult case, however, as HSA still seems to cling to the (original) idea positioning it as a top-top-tier product. Which they killed long ago when deciding to move production out of EL to FD... 

Precisely. I've been saying since April as long as Cohiba supply remains low this pricing is appropriate. In fact it may be low--China's tripping over themselves to pay $3,000 for Siglo VI at the moment. 

Now, the small Cohiba and Trini are a different story. The idea that Trini is even close to the same product as Cohiba is one of the worst marketing decisions I've ever seen. We're talking Volkswagen vs. Porsche. And throw in the RyJ LdO & Monte 1935 in as well. 

It's a shame how many Media Luna are just sitting around. I would love to buy them. I recall the last box I bought at Club Habana in June for $120. Never had a cigar enter and exit my regular rotation so quickly!

[El Presidente]

3 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

That would hurt the other markets. They'd just be giving PCC all the profit and depriving the small number of top end buyers in the other markets of any Cohiba whatsoever. 

 

Simply for the sake of accuracy, the China distributor is Infifon. Technically a different group to PCC. 

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, vladdraq said:

I would say BBF at $315 is one of the best deals still available. I haven't seen any tbh. It was $240 before the last hike, it's a no brainer.

It is a pretty good deal but in Oct there were zero boxes anywhere and there had been plenty in June. I suspect the Chinese may be gobbling some of that up as well. Same with the Libertadores which I saw in June but none in Oct. 

I also saw a complete disappearance of Connie 1, 2 & A, all DCs, RAS, ERDM CS PL Galanes between June and Oct. 

[Tomasito]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:53 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

Siglo I-III and CCE is always around. You won't see much if anything larger. 

Trini is having major problems and was already piling up in Oct.

$40.25 for a Coloniales or $30 for a LGC Glorias or JL SE? 

Where are you buying the Glorias or JL Seleccion Especial? 

[JohnS]

17 minutes ago, Tomasito said:

Where are you buying the Glorias or JL Seleccion Especial? 

You are asking @NSXCIGAR specifically in terms of where in Cuba? I say that because I can guarantee he's well aware of Forum Rule 5 in regards to not naming sources for purchases otherwise.

[NSXCIGAR]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:06 AM, Tomasito said:

Where are you buying the Glorias or JL Seleccion Especial? 

When boxes aren't available singles are around here and there if you run into people you know. 

Believe it or not it's actually easier to find under the table (or behind the counter might be more accurate) singles of large Cohiba, JL and LGC at than any Trini. No one has under the table Trini. I didn't see it in Oct and I'm not seeing it so far although I will start to ask as it would be nice to grab a few ML and Topes as a reasonable price. 

 

 

On 1/15/2023 at 9:11 PM, Arabian said:

HSA is testing the water with the recent price increase. Why would 3rd party flippers get extra cash from willing buyers where HSA can squeeze them out and take all that margins?

The only flipping that was going on was in China and I would say it was less flipping and more for personal use. It's the party elites that are sending out these buying parties. Chinese customs only allows 50 cigars in so obviously the party elites are able to bypass that. That isn't the case in other high-duty markets like the UK and Canada where nothing's getting through customs. Don't know if HK customs is being overridden by the Chinese elites also. Probably. If customs could be bypassed in the UK or Canada you'd have big shots sending out buying parties as well. 

The Chinese are paying $3,000 for Siglo VI right now so as I pointed out there's not much room for flipping. They are just trying to satisfy demand. 

Of course there will always be flipping of special production but that's a small segment. 

[MPS]

On 1/15/2023 at 12:12 PM, benfica_77 said:

Some pictures (not mine) from Today at Plaza America 

Maybe these price increases are starting to catch up with supply....maybe if some boats with Chinese tourists might changes this but I hope not.

Looks like a well stocked store. Isn't this how it should be? 

[Fugu]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:35 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

The idea that Trini is even close to the same product as Cohiba is one of the worst marketing decisions I've ever seen. We're talking Volkswagen vs. Porsche.

Not an idea to criticise per se. But they buggered up the execution. The original idea had been to have a Merc 300SL above the Porsches...

Can’t find it right now, but some good reading in the 1992 CA interview with Avelino Lara, from a time even a couple of years before the Fundi was released to market.

And to be fair, in terms of quality and enjoyment a Fundie is fully up there with the Lanceros.

20 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The only flipping that was going on was in China and I would say it was less flipping and more for personal use. ...

...The Chinese are paying $3,000 for Siglo VI right now so as I pointed out there's not much room for flipping. They are just trying to satisfy demand. 

I think @Arabian is addressing the flipping prior to the price ‘adjustments’. And indeed, I also said it before, when you saw how youngest boxes of ‘iba and specialities were being flipped on the second market, even HSA it slowly dawned that something was wrong, and that they would better milk the margin themselves...

Now, there seems to be some punctual overshooting... 😂

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, Fugu said:

Not an idea to criticise per se. But they buggered up the execution. The original idea had been to have a Merc 300SL above the Porsches...

Can’t find it right now, but some good reading in the 1992 CA interview with Avelino Lara, from a time even a couple of years before the Fundi was released to market.

And to be fair, in terms of quality and enjoyment a Fundie is fully up there with the Lanceros.

I think there's something to that but what Trini had was really only the mystique which was only really appreciated by aficionados anyway. 90% of smokers wouldn't have even known about the Fundy or its history. The foundation was destroyed with the way the Reyes and especially the Coloniales with its price point and quality. I love the Reyes and Coloniales as much as the next guy but it really can't compete with a Siglo I or Siglo III. And yes, a Fundy can be great but a great Lanceros is a cigar you never forget. Their ceilings are just not the same. 

I saw a few boxes of Siglo IV today as well as quite a few MS and CoRo. Clearly the Chinese have been out of town for a few weeks...

I also found 11 cabs of 18 Party Shorts at the Nacional that were beetle fodder. 

[ha_banos]

"This is a very special cigar, the Trinidad," said Lara, holding one of them in his hand. "It is better than the Cohiba. It is the selection of the selection of the selection." ref. CA

[Miguel Gracias]

Claims to be rolex of cigar... I dont think i can find dozens of rolex at my local watch dealers 🤔

[SCgarman]

9 hours ago, Miguel Gracias said:

Claims to be rolex of cigar... I dont think i can find dozens of rolex at my local watch dealers 🤔

We all know that's a crock of sh**. Not even on the level of a Timex

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, SCgarman said:

We all know that's a crock of sh**. Not even on the level of a Timex

You're almost being generous. Every single Timex tells time. 

[MossybackR]

On 1/15/2023 at 10:45 AM, Hammer Smokin' said:

it's tough to go without car insurance. 

i'm finding it's much easier than I thought to go without cuban cigars.

The Nudies have been a salve to the pain of such a brutal paradigm shift. They have also been a gateway to the world of other NC long skinny cigars. I look forward to future versions of the Des Nudos,

[KnightsAnole]

They choke on them- these 2 brands are dead to me 

[Lamboinee]

The horse says "NAAAAAYYYYY". Nay I say.

We all seem to be relying on anecdotal evidence that supports the perspective that we all "want" to be true.  We are like McDonald's workers making minimum wage who one day read a google news post about how so-and-so revolted and demanded $20/hr to work at McDonalds. So, we put a sign on the door that says the manager sucks and treats us like slaves. Then, we take the bus home and meander through life till we take a new job at Burger King making the same/similar wage that we made at McD's.  I should know...I read that same google news post. McDonald's doesn't care. They don't have to.  Habanos doens't care. They don't have to. Their own citizens are hungry and poor and still NO ONE cares.

Yes, I am using anecdotes to prove my point about how the other anecdotes are wrong. But, no one cares.

The strategy is to milk the consumer base for all it's worth and every consumer good seems to have followed that path until they cash out for whatever reason.  There's a powerpoint somewhere outlining the "3 steps to market milking for consumer/luxury goods".  Land Rovers have turn signals that blink when you open the glove box.  The solution...make them cost more and make them status symbols that way their blinker bullocks will be seen as "eccentricities of the luxury life". 

Habanos knew everyone would be pissed, cause uh people don't like being told what to do or spending more money...just like the Cubans are probably pissed off every time they have to use a ration book to buy food.  And no one cares.  Habanos was so underwhelmed with our discontent that they raised the prices again a few months after the largest increase in history.  Please sir, may I have another. It hurts so good though. No one cares.

Why would habanos stop now? Because some boxes piled up at a bunch of duty free shops? There's doody in that duty free shop argument. No way. They making uber-status symbols and people will buy them at whatever price. We might as well put red-bottoms on the bottoms of all Cohibas (hey that's not a bad idea...Jimmy Chohibas) I think we should start shoring up funding so that we can open a bank and finance high interest loans over 30 years and sell them to low-income cigar smokers.  Finance your 1997 Dodge Dart along with 8.9% on 3 Cohiba Robustos.  Dartbustos me gustos.    

My calculator (it's on my watch) says that if they sell a ton of Behikes at 1 billion doll hairs, then they don't care if a ton of siglo-minis pile up at a duty free shop costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.  That's undeniably good dam math that resembles fact people.....plus they'll just sell them back to us as "vintage" in the future.  People love old antique mini stuff....like small porcelain gnome figurines. 

I want to believe what everyone says about the difficulties that Habanos is having after their price increase.  But, the only evidence I really see supporting that viewpoint is my own bias and my foolish desire to "hope".  Habanos isn't having trouble......people that can't afford Behikes are having trouble, like they always have. My life is truly tragic folks, I've never actually had a Cohiba....it's so embarrassing at tax time.  No one cares.

The worst part is that we consumers are doing nothing to help ourselves. 24:24 sells out daily (and it should, it's a dam beacon of light in this whole ordeal imo and it's become the only place I purchase whether directly or downstream when I trade or buy on Bond Roberts). But the point is....we are still buying CC's because we want them. We want them.  I like buying them as much as smoking them. WE WANT THEM, which is why market milking works. But, eventually, will be feeding our tails to our heads.  I do love tail steak.

Cigars that everyone says are "outrageously priced" seem to sell out on online retailer's regularly.  I once heard a reputable cigar industry say that "all cigars will sell eventually"....and they will. 

I am buying stuff off Bond Roberts at a price that is probably more than what some of y'all would ever consider paying because I haven't had a lot of CC's and the prices on regional stuff ain't that bad compared to the $30 Opus I was already smoking.  Monte 4's BLEW MY FRIGGIN MIND y'all. If I can smoke those at $300/box I almost feel like I'm saving money compared to the $18-30 NC's that I was already buying. 

The scenario was likely very clear to the illuminatahabanos reptile lords.... Will dummy yank justify a $300 box MC 4's .....or, smoke a Chinchilla Yard 'Gar from the Nickleback NC collection?  They knew I would overpay and that some other slack jawed mouth breather would fill in behind me and buy the Marvel Universe Maravillas.

I am also concerned with how the NC outbreak is being billed, by some, as the "fill-in" panacea for the downtrodden CC world.  Keep yo stank finger out my NC kool-aid bowel unless you're gonna make it sweeter!  That whole situation is likely to exacerbate the CC problems while placing immense burden on the NC manufacturers. Which will leave me, AND EVERYONE, smoking overpriced CC's and/or NC's that have quality control issues and which are likely overpriced as well.  I don't wanna share my NC's with the world if it means everything just gets worse for all cigars and more expensive on everything.  I want everything for nothing.  I think that's in the Constitution.

Revolt. Let's form a Union. Let's demand standards. Let's do it now.  24:24 seems to have standards and respect....and we all seem to like it....let's demand that others follow those standards.  Up with hope, down with dope. I'm ready, but you have to go first because I have a whole sciatica issue. 

How many more entitled yuppies have to suffer before we take action?

Chez friggin Gueverra! Aaron Tippin once said "you gotta stand for something or you'll fall for anything".  If we take a stand the only thing that will fall is CC prices and interest rates.

We can make a better future.

I reserve the right to disavow all knowledge of this post and/or amend its content after a period of reflection and embarrassment.

This post is for satirical purposes only. Unless you agree.

 

 

 

[rcarlson]

3 hours ago, Lamboinee said:

The horse says "NAAAAAYYYYY". Nay I say.

We all seem to be relying on anecdotal evidence that supports the perspective that we all "want" to be true.  We are like McDonald's workers making minimum wage who one day read a google news post about how so-and-so revolted and demanded $20/hr to work at McDonalds. So, we put a sign on the door that says the manager sucks and treats us like slaves. Then, we take the bus home and meander through life till we take a new job at Burger King making the same/similar wage that we made at McD's.  I should know...I read that same google news post. McDonald's doesn't care. They don't have to.  Habanos doens't care. They don't have to. Their own citizens are hungry and poor and still NO ONE cares.

Yes, I am using anecdotes to prove my point about how the other anecdotes are wrong. But, no one cares.

The strategy is to milk the consumer base for all it's worth and every consumer good seems to have followed that path until they cash out for whatever reason.  There's a powerpoint somewhere outlining the "3 steps to market milking for consumer/luxury goods".  Land Rovers have turn signals that blink when you open the glove box.  The solution...make them cost more and make them status symbols that way their blinker bullocks will be seen as "eccentricities of the luxury life". 

Habanos knew everyone would be pissed, cause uh people don't like being told what to do or spending more money...just like the Cubans are probably pissed off every time they have to use a ration book to buy food.  And no one cares.  Habanos was so underwhelmed with our discontent that they raised the prices again a few months after the largest increase in history.  Please sir, may I have another. It hurts so good though. No one cares.

Why would habanos stop now? Because some boxes piled up at a bunch of duty free shops? There's doody in that duty free shop argument. No way. They making uber-status symbols and people will buy them at whatever price. We might as well put red-bottoms on the bottoms of all Cohibas (hey that's not a bad idea...Jimmy Chohibas) I think we should start shoring up funding so that we can open a bank and finance high interest loans over 30 years and sell them to low-income cigar smokers.  Finance your 1997 Dodge Dart along with 8.9% on 3 Cohiba Robustos.  Dartbustos me gustos.    

My calculator (it's on my watch) says that if they sell a ton of Behikes at 1 billion doll hairs, then they don't care if a ton of siglo-minis pile up at a duty free shop costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.  That's undeniably good dam math that resembles fact people.....plus they'll just sell them back to us as "vintage" in the future.  People love old antique mini stuff....like small porcelain gnome figurines. 

I want to believe what everyone says about the difficulties that Habanos is having after their price increase.  But, the only evidence I really see supporting that viewpoint is my own bias and my foolish desire to "hope".  Habanos isn't having trouble......people that can't afford Behikes are having trouble, like they always have. My life is truly tragic folks, I've never actually had a Cohiba....it's so embarrassing at tax time.  No one cares.

The worst part is that we consumers are doing nothing to help ourselves. 24:24 sells out daily (and it should, it's a dam beacon of light in this whole ordeal imo and it's become the only place I purchase whether directly or downstream when I trade or buy on Bond Roberts). But the point is....we are still buying CC's because we want them. We want them.  I like buying them as much as smoking them. WE WANT THEM, which is why market milking works. But, eventually, will be feeding our tails to our heads.  I do love tail steak.

Cigars that everyone says are "outrageously priced" seem to sell out on online retailer's regularly.  I once heard a reputable cigar industry say that "all cigars will sell eventually"....and they will. 

I am buying stuff off Bond Roberts at a price that is probably more than what some of y'all would ever consider paying because I haven't had a lot of CC's and the prices on regional stuff ain't that bad compared to the $30 Opus I was already smoking.  Monte 4's BLEW MY FRIGGIN MIND y'all. If I can smoke those at $300/box I almost feel like I'm saving money compared to the $18-30 NC's that I was already buying. 

The scenario was likely very clear to the illuminatahabanos reptile lords.... Will dummy yank justify a $300 box MC 4's .....or, smoke a Chinchilla Yard 'Gar from the Nickleback NC collection?  They knew I would overpay and that some other slack jawed mouth breather would fill in behind me and buy the Marvel Universe Maravillas.

I am also concerned with how the NC outbreak is being billed, by some, as the "fill-in" panacea for the downtrodden CC world.  Keep yo stank finger out my NC kool-aid bowel unless you're gonna make it sweeter!  That whole situation is likely to exacerbate the CC problems while placing immense burden on the NC manufacturers. Which will leave me, AND EVERYONE, smoking overpriced CC's and/or NC's that have quality control issues and which are likely overpriced as well.  I don't wanna share my NC's with the world if it means everything just gets worse for all cigars and more expensive on everything.  I want everything for nothing.  I think that's in the Constitution.

Revolt. Let's form a Union. Let's demand standards. Let's do it now.  24:24 seems to have standards and respect....and we all seem to like it....let's demand that others follow those standards.  Up with hope, down with dope. I'm ready, but you have to go first because I have a whole sciatica issue. 

How many more entitled yuppies have to suffer before we take action?

Chez friggin Gueverra! Aaron Tippin once said "you gotta stand for something or you'll fall for anything".  If we take a stand the only thing that will fall is CC prices and interest rates.

We can make a better future.

I reserve the right to disavow all knowledge of this post and/or amend its content after a period of reflection and embarrassment.

This post is for satirical purposes only. Unless you agree.

 

 

 

Abbie Hoffman lives!