Cigar Aficionado Top 25, 2022 guesses

[Corylax18]

I had some time to dig a bit deeper on my previous comments this morning and realized why I may not be able to find what I've been looking for. 

Some of these embarrassing/loose lipped videos may have suddenly "violated terms of service" and aren't available on Youtube anymore. Despite dozens of other nearly identical videos still being there. Very interesting. 

A link to the Infamous Plume/Bloom/Mold Video with Mott and Savona below. I like AJ very much, I don't personally know any of the guys at CA, but I'm not taking a shot at the people. I'm taking a shot at the industry. The industry that CA essentially created in its current form. 

Cigar aficionado is purely entertainment, as I said above. Weather its 3 puffs, 10 puffs or 20, they readily admit, frequently, that they don't smoke most or all of most of the cigars they rate. Nobody can garner enough information about a cigar to make broad, general sweeping comments on how all x million of them produced will taste/draw/perform.

I don't feel comfortable sharing my opinion on a cigar until I've smoked through a couple boxes, let a lone 1" of 1 cigar. I'm not using anybody's 1" review to make any buying decisions, ever. Its not just CA that I ignore. 

Watch Shanken absolutely TORCH the first 1" of this Pre Castro Cuban during the MJ interview, but still not actually get the cigar properly lit.(41.36) Then he hits AGAIN, still doesnt get it lit and fries it a THIRD time. How many puffs was that? Enough to tell me the cigar tastes like Oiled Burmese Teak? That it tastes like Dried Jaipur Limes?

You're telling me this is the guy I should be taking tasting notes from? He's painful to watch. That first inch probably tasted like butane, charcoal and campfire. If he got lucky he only ruined the first inch. I'll say it again, its pretentious bullshit. Humorous, fun to read, entertaining. But it contains as much useful information as the instructions on a shampoo bottle. 

 

[Carrie Nation]

33 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I had some time to dig a bit deeper on my previous comments this morning and realized why I may not be able to find what I've been looking for. 

Some of these embarrassing/loose lipped videos may have suddenly "violated terms of service" and aren't available on Youtube anymore. Despite dozens of other nearly identical videos still being there. Very interesting. 

A link to the Infamous Plume/Bloom/Mold Video with Mott and Savona below. I like AJ very much, I don't personally know any of the guys at CA, but I'm not taking a shot at the people. I'm taking a shot at the industry. The industry that CA essentially created in its current form. 

Cigar aficionado is purely entertainment, as I said above. Weather its 3 puffs, 10 puffs or 20, they readily admit, frequently, that they don't smoke most or all of most of the cigars they rate. Nobody can garner enough information about a cigar to make broad, general sweeping comments on how all x million of them produced will taste/draw/perform.

I don't feel comfortable sharing my opinion on a cigar until I've smoked through a couple boxes, let a lone 1" of 1 cigar. I'm not using anybody's 1" review to make any buying decisions, ever. Its not just CA that I ignore. 

Watch Shanken absolutely TORCH the first 1" of this Pre Castro Cuban during the MJ interview, but still not actually get the cigar properly lit.(41.36) Then he hits AGAIN, still doesnt get it lit and fries it a THIRD time. How many puffs was that? Enough to tell me the cigar tastes like Oiled Burmese Teak? That it tastes like Dried Jaipur Limes?

You're telling me this is the guy I should be taking tasting notes from? He's painful to watch. That first inch probably tasted like butane, charcoal and campfire. If he got lucky he only ruined the first inch. I'll say it again, its pretentious bullshit. Humorous, fun to read, entertaining. But it contains as much useful information as the instructions on a shampoo bottle. 

 

"they readily admit, frequently, that they don't smoke most or all of most of the cigars they rate."

 

Uhhh, no. The only thing they "readily admit" is that they smoke 1/3 to 1/2 the cigar. I showed you the excerpt and that's straight from them, on a public forum. Half a cigar is a far cry from a few puffs, yet you keep parroting the same internet rumor that nobody here can find any evidence of. Mandela Effect. 

[Hammer Smokin']

they actually readily admit they only smoke 1/3rd of a cigar eh. 

sounds ..... awesome. 

[Bagman]

2 hours ago, Namisgr11 said:

I'm thinking that everybody's partly right about how much of the testing cigars CA actually smokes.  Some of the mag's reviews describe the tasting notes midway or on the finish.

I don't think you understand the term "on the finish"  It doesn't have to do with the physical end of the cigar.

Finish

A tasting term. It refers to the taste that lingers on your palate after a puff. Mild cigars do not have much finish, either in terms of length or complexity (called a short finish), but stronger, more full-bodied cigars have distinctive flavors that linger for a while. Some novice smokers confuse the term with the way a cigar tastes after it has been smoked down to virtually nothing.

[Cigar Surgeon]

For anyone interested, I'll be a panelist Tuesday night 9:15 EST for the Prime Time CA 2022 recap show.

[Carrie Nation]

On 12/15/2022 at 4:52 PM, Hammer Smokin' said:

no comments around the top 10, but was surprised to hear the poor mention towards the Escogidos. 

2 left from my original box but all 8 were excellent cigars. 

have a 2nd box resting. 

Not really. Here's what they say: "Normally, it takes ⅓ to ½ of the cigar to develop its natural flavors. That’s how much we generally smoke." I don't interpret that as only 1/3 and see no reason to not take their statement at face value.

On 12/15/2022 at 4:52 PM, Hammer Smokin' said:

no comments around the top 10, but was surprised to hear the poor mention towards the Escogidos. 

2 left from my original box but all 8 were excellent cigars. 

have a 2nd box resting. 

 

[Hammer Smokin']

that's cool. 

as you can tell the majority of cigar smokers know how valuable an opinion is when you only smoke 1/3rd to 1/2 the cigar. 

 

[Carrie Nation]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:10 AM, Fugu said:

Groundhog Day yet again?! 😅

And, as usual .... I couldn't care less. 

 

Yup, took me a while, too (FOH search ....)

According to Greg Mottola (in an AMA through Reddit with Savona/Mottola) they smoke 1/3 to half of a cigar. But indeed, if the start is not appealing, a cigar might be skipped after just a few draws already. There’s more to be said about their procedure... Check out the below thread from a few years back (link to said AMA/interview to be found in that thread). I also remember that you could once find their procedure being detailed in the CA mag. But didn’t bother to check now.

 

.

[Ford2112]

It's funny what some folks get all bunched up about. 

 

Incidentally I've seen that MJ video a few times. That old guy destroys that cigar 🤣

 

 

 

 

[Fugu]

20 hours ago, Carrie Nation said:

Let's not change the argument now. Corylax18 said ""They flat out tell you they only take a few puffs of each cigar" when it seems they did no such thing. There is a world of difference between taking a few puffs and smoking 1/3 to 1/2 the cigar. Even if 1/2 the cigar isn't enough, that isn't the point. They never flat out told anyone "they only take a few puffs of each cigar" so let's not misrepresent CA with exaggerations or repeat internet rumors that no one can seem to substantiate. There are plenty of ways to criticize CA without introducing nonsense into the argument.

There had been a time even prior to that AMA posting that you are beating to death now (and likewise - your sole source of info for that matter...). While it seems you haden’t been around back then already, some of us had, and I recall pretty clear what’s been stated and been discussed at the time. Some of that information had also been based on personal communication that was never published. I do recall the same what others here seem to recall, and what Rob @elpresidente had been referring to in his post linked by @NSXCIGAR, when he said:

“CA only smoke the first inch of any cigar. I think Ken and Smithy would agree that the first inch of the Eagle and Master didn't entirely suck. No 91 but a solid 84/5 from memory. It was after the first inch that the cigar crumbled to the depths of meaninglessnes.”

A true shame indeed that nobody of us is able to come up with an original citation and proof to verify, if that is what’s needed to go by your standards. It looks as if those original “official“ or semi-official CA statements have been erased meanwhile, perhaps as they had all too often been criticised for it among the community. And maybe that’s why CA came up with a different “wording” / LTT, later. Or perhaps they factually changed their procedure, who’d really know (cares to know)? That hasn’t been made transparent either.

Here’s the Gordon Mott bit for you. And, no, I cannot substantiate it any further, since the original page has been taken down (such things happen, the web may forget, whereas we do not 😅). This is originally from a statement in a CigarFamily thread, which you find re-cited on old cigarasylum- and cigarpass-threads:

“I have said openly that we smoke between half an inch to an inch of each cigar. I've had manufacturers rake me over the coals for that fact, and for the fact that we don't "smoke a whole box" to get the true nature of their product. [...] We didn't just arbitrarily chose the half-inch to an inch limit, although Andy is right; there is a simple logistical imperative that comes into play. But after many hours of talking with cigar people, and I hope mastering some of the intricacies of what makes a handrolled cigar function, nearly everyone talks about a point where a cigar gets "running." It's usually after that first-half inch. By then, you will in 99 percent of the cases, know the true nature of the cigar; you certainly will [get; AN] a perfect idea of draw and burn, most flavor components, and whether or not you like it.”

[SCgarman]

21 hours ago, Ford2112 said:

It's funny what some folks get all bunched up about. 

 

Incidentally I've seen that MJ video a few times. That old guy destroys that cigar 🤣

The old guy is Marvin Shanken, owner of CA magazine. He paid $500,000 for JFK's humidor. Has money to burn. 

[Carrie Nation]

5 hours ago, Fugu said:

There had been a time even prior to that AMA posting that you are beating to death now (and likewise - your sole source of info for that matter...). While it seems you haden’t been around back then already, some of us had, and I recall pretty clear what’s been stated and been discussed at the time. Some of that information had also been based on personal communication that was never published. I do recall the same what others here seem to recall, and what Rob @elpresidente had been referring to in his post linked by @NSXCIGAR, when he said:

“CA only smoke the first inch of any cigar. I think Ken and Smithy would agree that the first inch of the Eagle and Master didn't entirely suck. No 91 but a solid 84/5 from memory. It was after the first inch that the cigar crumbled to the depths of meaninglessnes.”

A true shame indeed that nobody of us is able to come up with an original citation and proof to verify, if that is what’s needed to go by your standards. It looks as if those original “official“ or semi-official CA statements have been erased meanwhile, perhaps as they had all too often been criticised for it among the community. And maybe that’s why CA came up with a different “wording” / LTT, later. Or perhaps they factually changed their procedure, who’d really know (cares to know)? That hasn’t been made transparent either.

Here’s the Gordon Mott bit for you. And, no, I cannot substantiate it any further, since the original page has been taken down (such things happen, the web may forget, whereas we do not 😅). This is originally from a statement in a CigarFamily thread, which you find re-cited on old cigarasylum- and cigarpass-threads:

“I have said openly that we smoke between half an inch to an inch of each cigar. I've had manufacturers rake me over the coals for that fact, and for the fact that we don't "smoke a whole box" to get the true nature of their product. [...] We didn't just arbitrarily chose the half-inch to an inch limit, although Andy is right; there is a simple logistical imperative that comes into play. But after many hours of talking with cigar people, and I hope mastering some of the intricacies of what makes a handrolled cigar function, nearly everyone talks about a point where a cigar gets "running." It's usually after that first-half inch. By then, you will in 99 percent of the cases, know the true nature of the cigar; you certainly will [get; AN] a perfect idea of draw and burn, most flavor components, and whether or not you like it.”

These disjointed excerpts and random recollections are all moot seeing how CA has officially stated how much they smoke. And they said it 7 years ago, so we're going on a decade now. They do not "flat out tell you they only take a few puffs of each cigar for the regular reviews." That's simply misrepresentation. And saying I'm beating the AMA post to death is quite silly. That's the only concrete evidence and official statement available...and far more reliable than what's been offered up here so far. Far more current too. Time to update. 

[Fugu]

58 minutes ago, Carrie Nation said:

official statement

There is no such thing as an “official statement” outlining the particular smoking procedure, beat the dead horse as much as you want (How CA Tastes Cigars, as per Mar 2020).

I won’t continue feeding the troll. Make of that what you will, mate. If you lay any value into their lists and ratings, more power to you! At least you could do worse than stocking up on HU No.2. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 😅

[Ford2112]

1 hour ago, SCgarman said:

The old guy is Marvin Shanken, owner of CA magazine. He paid $500,000 for JFK's humidor. Has money to burn. 

It's hilarious. What a waste .

[Carrie Nation]

30 minutes ago, Fugu said:

There is no such thing as an “official statement” outlining the particular smoking procedure, beat the dead horse as much as you want (How CA Tastes Cigars, as per Mar 2020).

I won’t continue feeding the troll. Make of that what you will, mate. If you lay any value into their lists and ratings, more power to you! At least you could do worse than stocking up on HU No.2. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 😅

Troll? I'm not so willing to accept irresponsible statements made willy-nilly just because it's become conventional wisdom on the internet. Especially when I've shown you something more concrete. But I understand your need to revert to name calling when you can't really make a strong case. Maturity is not the internet's strong point. 

[El Presidente]

It never ceases to amuse me how CA has the ability to reduce normally intelligent individuals to  cigar click bait teens.   

Hat's off to Marven/Greg and the team.  They know exactly what buttons to push in order to get eyeballs on site/print and revenue in pocket. 

I tip my hat to you   

 

[BeerPimp]

Wow there is more purse swinging in this thread than I thought there would be.  Figured I would smoke an H Upmann #2 yesterday when I got together with my Friend who got me in to this expensive hobby.  It was good amazing burn.   It was a little tight on the draw.  I love Connie 1's and I didn't get as much of the bread/cake flavor as one of those.   I still like a Monte #2 better for a pyramid.

[Nevrknow]

1 minute ago, BeerPimp said:

.   I still like a Monte #2 better for a pyramid.

Agreed. My Monte 2's are out damn standing! 👍🏻

[BeerPimp]

5 minutes ago, Nevrknow said:

Agreed. My Monte 2's are out damn standing! 👍🏻

It was one of the first CC (given as a gift) that I tried and when I started purchasing CC's that was the first box I purchased.  The last one I smoked was absolutely amazing and made me wonder why I waited so long to smoke one.

[PigFish]

I remember one of the CA writers discussing the Cuban cigars that one can obtain from many a LA retailer.

I once scored a barber pole wrapped Belicosos from the Sagebrush Cantina’s solo act. And a stunning sample of a Cuban cigar it was….👨🏼‍🦯

[SCgarman]

23 hours ago, Nevrknow said:

Agreed. My Monte 2's are out damn standing! 👍🏻

They should be at $520.00/box! 😂

23 hours ago, BeerPimp said:

Wow there is more purse swinging in this thread than I thought there would be.  Figured I would smoke an H Upmann #2 yesterday when I got together with my Friend who got me in to this expensive hobby.  It was good amazing burn.   It was a little tight on the draw.  I love Connie 1's and I didn't get as much of the bread/cake flavor as one of those.   I still like a Monte #2 better for a pyramid.

Upmann 2=Upmann PC. Same flavor DNA, different vitola

[Cigar Surgeon]

For anyone interested and didn't tune in last night (gets posted in just over an hour):  Despite the promise we wouldn't go long, we went way long.