thin end of the wedge here

[Ken Gargett]

i know it was largely tongue-in-cheek, but that last line sums up why the fight is going to be a long and relentless one.

that said, why wouldn't you take trains around europe for short trips. convenient, quick, the ones i have done have been closer to business class than the sardine tin stuff in economy flights. 

 

France Is Banning Short-Haul Domestic Flights in a Bid to Reduce Carbon Emissions

Three routes with viable rail alternatives have been prohibited.

By RACHEL CORMACK 

 

 

 

 

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Christophe Morin/Getty

France can now make you train rather than plane.

The European Commission (EC) has given French officials the green light to ban select domestic flights if the route in question can be completed via train in under two and a half hours.

 

The plan was first proposed in 2021 as a means to reduce carbon emissions. It originally called for a ban on eight short-haul flights, but the EC has only agreed to nix three that have quick, easy rail alternatives with several direct connections each way every day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The three routes that currently fall under the edict include journeys between Paris-Orly Airport (pictured top) and Bordeaux, Nantes and Lyon. Some proposed routes were excluded from the plan as there were no genuine rail alternatives.

Although the ban was initially met with pushback from the aviation industry, the EC said France was justified to introduce the measure provided it is “non-discriminatory, does not distort competition between air carriers, [and] is not more restrictive than necessary to relieve the problem.” The decree will be implemented for three years, after which it will be assessed by the Commission.

“This is a major step forward, and I am proud that France is a pioneer in this area,” France’s Transport Minister Clément Beaune said in a statement.

Indeed, the French Parliament passed a “Climate and Resilience Law” in 2021 that should make it possible to achieve a 40 percent reduction in greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by 2030. The French government is also looking to tax private jets to limit the number of private fliers, though earlier discussions of outright bans on private flying have not materialized.

There is still a lot of work to be done, of course. The Gallic nation currently has the highest number of private-jet flights in Europe. Private jets are up to 14 times more polluting than commercial flights per passenger mile and 50 times more polluting than trains, according to a report from the Transport and Environment.

If only trains were as appealing as private planes.

[El Presidente]

....I have read about trains. One day  

[NSXCIGAR]

Excellent, that will reduce world emissions by 0.001%. But it's important to lead. 

In recognition of this historic event China will dedicate this week's new coal fired plant to France in the sprit of state control.

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Excellent, that will reduce world emissions by 0.001%. 

But it's important to lead. 

i think that second sentence is the key one. 

think of all this like wildebeest at the edge of the Mara with the crocs in residence. at some stage, one has to out his hoof in and take the first steps. none really want to. eventually one does and then another and another and then the floodgates open. the crocs get a couple but in the end...

[NSXCIGAR]

Just now, Ken Gargett said:

i think that second sentence is the key one. 

think of all this like wildebeest at the edge of the Mara with the crocs in residence. at some stage, one has to out his hoof in and take the first steps. none really want to. eventually one does and then another and another and then the floodgates open. the crocs get a couple but in the end...

30 years of "leading" and China and India go the opposite direction. Definition of insanity? 

Just like China will follow the west to democracy...idealistic, naive, pie in the sky. 

[El Presidente]

Follow the money. 

WHo owns French Rail?

The system was effectively nationalized in 1938, when the Société Nationale des Chemins de Fer Français (SNCF) took over the operations of the privately owned Est, Midi, Nord, Paris-Lyons-Mediterranean, and Paris-Orleans railways, as well as the railways in western France.

[Ken Gargett]

3 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Follow the money. 

WHo owns French Rail?

The system was effectively nationalized in 1938, when the Société Nationale des Chemins de Fer Français (SNCF) took over the operations of the privately owned Est, Midi, Nord, Paris-Lyons-Mediterranean, and Paris-Orleans railways, as well as the railways in western France.

yes, never underestimate the role greed can play. mind you, they also own a good chunk of air france.

[El Presidente]

Just now, Ken Gargett said:

yes, never underestimate the role greed can play. mind you, they also own a good chunk of air france.

....and follow the votes ! 

They just re-opened up a coal fired power station 

'Necessary evil': France refires coal plant amid energy woes

Like all politicians.....red...blue...watermellon....green. They are just slimy pieces of shit. 

[Ken Gargett]

17 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Excellent, that will reduce world emissions by 0.001%. But it's important to lead. 

 

i take the view that, along with a number of issues, humanity has stuffed this up beyond belief, although this year has thrown up a few surprises and perhaps even the occasional sliver of hope. 

and as for politicians, all politicians, slimy is far too kind. the vermin of humanity. 

personally, i think the absolute best we can hope for is a horrendous mess, but worse likely. no question china and india need to do more (well, they, like almost every country, will tell us they are but the reality? good luck). it is a little understandable that they and others might be a smidge miffed when certain countries have basically been cooking the planet for years and suddenly decided that is no good so if you other countries wouldn't mind, stop doing what we did. and because we were doing it for so long, it will be tough for us to change quickly. so if you wouldn't mind...

very grateful i was born when i was. it is all downhill from here. climate change is not like the bear in the woods. won't matter if i can run faster than you or anyone else. it will get everyone and everything. and it is coming so much faster than most realise. following the money is spot on. it is going to be the destroyer of economies. and every day that nations delay, it just gets more expensive in the end. 

[Bijan]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

....and follow the votes ! 

They just re-opened up a coal fired power station 

'Necessary evil': France refires coal plant amid energy woes

Like all politicians.....red...blue...watermellon....green. They are just slimy pieces of shit. 

I believe half the nuclear plants in France are under maintenance/overhaul.

They didn't go the way of Germany and shut them all down, but they're still huge money sinks that pretty much need to be rebuilt every couple of decades.

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

it will get everyone and everything. and it is coming so much faster than most realise. following the money is spot on. it is going to be the destroyer of economies. and every day that nations delay, it just gets more expensive in the end. 

Relax, Ken. Humans are very good at adaptation. Rapid shifts, not so much. It's just human nature. And sky-is-falling proclamations are generally ineffective.

All I know is quite a few of the richest and loudest proponents of this are still building $50 million homes right on the beach. 

[Lamboinee]

America has two trains. One ships material goods. The other is the monorail at Disney Land.  I'm fascinated at the idea of trains. I'm told it the train system awesome in Europe. I struggle to think how it could be adopted in the States for various reasons. 

[SirVantes]

A fact that still amazes me:  The first Japanese Shinkansen (bullet train) ran in 1964, just in time for the Tokyo Olympics.  1964!  210km/h / 130mph in 1964.  Think of the cars on the road then and tell me you are not amazed.

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, SirVantes said:

A fact that still amazes me:  The first Japanese Shinkansen (bullet train) ran in 1964, just in time for the Tokyo Olympics.  1964!  210km/h / 130mph in 1964.  Think of the cars on the road then and tell me you are not amazed.

i am amazed and yet, man still had not thought to put wheels on luggage. 

 

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Relax, Ken. Humans are very good at adaptation. Rapid shifts, not so much. It's just human nature. And sky-is-falling proclamations are generally ineffective.

All I know is quite a few of the richest and loudest proponents of this are still building $50 million homes right on the beach. 

sky is not falling, just getting hotter. the worst won't be in our lifetimes, though it will just keep getting worse. humans have some weird belief that they have a god-given right to exist forever, to overcome everything. that we are cleverer than anything and for many, either religion or dumb luck will save us. good luck with all that. 

not suggesting that we will go extinct (even if we are going through we are playing an integral role in the 6th extinction level events) but whether it be 100 or 200 years, we won't recognise the world we live in today.  

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

the worst won't be in our lifetimes,

If humans can't adapt to 10 feet of sea level rise over the next 300 years then we deserve to perish. 

This problem isn't sneaking up on anyone. It is a centuries-long event. Who knows what technology we will have in 100 years. I strongly suspect we'll have fusion in the next 50. 

Let people deal with it as it comes. The likelihood that the world will come together to reduce emissions enough to satisfy the alarmists is virtually zero. Let's stop trying to lead those who don't wish to be led. 

In the meantime let's enjoy the higher crop yields and the fewer deaths from cold. 

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

If humans can't adapt to 10 feet of sea level rise over the next 300 years then we deserve to perish. 

This problem isn't sneaking up on anyone. It is a centuries-long event. Who knows what technology we will have in 100 years. I strongly suspect we'll have fusion in the next 50. 

Let people deal with it as it comes. The likelihood that the world will come together to reduce emissions enough to satisfy the alarmists is virtually zero. Let's stop trying to lead those who don't wish to be led. 

In the meantime let's enjoy the higher crop yields and the fewer deaths from cold. 

so when you say alarmists, you mean realists? i know the deniers had to find a name for people who actually think science is not voodoo and fairy stories but is that the best they can do? still, feel free to take off the tin hat and get on board. 

10 feet in 300 years? estimates vary of course but not sure i have seen any that generous. 13 feet in the next 130 years seems to be about average (yes, i know, that is those pesky scientists and their whacky theories and we all know that they have no clue compared to self appointed experts and deniers - and yes, much could happen but crossing your fingers and hoping really hard has not won many wars).

i do agree with you on a couple of things. who knows what technology. but the issue might be timing. will we have the magic bullet, or even a minor one, in time? who knows. but if you think we can wait 100 years, it won't matter much. it will be way too late. and i do agree the chances of reducing emissions anywhere near enough is zero. 

but "Let people deal with it as it comes." and "Let's stop trying to lead those who don't wish to be led." the implications of that go so far beyond climate change. what would history look like? that just does not even begin to work. 

enjoy higher crops and fewer deaths? so this is all just taking the piss because you can't really be serious? the figures of deaths attributed to climate change is already horrendous. crops? wow, that doesn't even deserve wasting time on a response. 8 year olds can understand this stuff. i guess it just depends on whether someone wants to. 

[Cairo]

14 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

it's important to lead. 

Lol.

Private jets will still be flying around all they want.

The "leaders" are laughing at the peons.

[Fuzz]

14 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i take the view that, along with a number of issues, humanity has stuffed this up beyond belief, although this year has thrown up a few surprises and perhaps even the occasional sliver of hope. 

and as for politicians, all politicians, slimy is far too kind. the vermin of humanity. 

personally, i think the absolute best we can hope for is a horrendous mess, but worse likely. no question china and india need to do more (well, they, like almost every country, will tell us they are but the reality? good luck). it is a little understandable that they and others might be a smidge miffed when certain countries have basically been cooking the planet for years and suddenly decided that is no good so if you other countries wouldn't mind, stop doing what we did. and because we were doing it for so long, it will be tough for us to change quickly. so if you wouldn't mind...

very grateful i was born when i was. it is all downhill from here. climate change is not like the bear in the woods. won't matter if i can run faster than you or anyone else. it will get everyone and everything. and it is coming so much faster than most realise. following the money is spot on. it is going to be the destroyer of economies. and every day that nations delay, it just gets more expensive in the end. 

China does have the most solar energy of any country, at 340GW, which dwarfs the next four largest countries combined. China's target is to have 30+% of the countries energy supplied by renewables by 2025, and to have 1200GW of solar and wind energy by 2030. Considering they are the largest manufacturer of solar panels, it's not an overly ambitious target.

Now, as for all their other industries that create pollutants, that's a different story.

[BoliDan]

I hate the Chunnel ride. It's always packed and the outside of the Gare du Nord smells like a toilet. 

 

That's all I have to say. Good night

 

[Cairo]

6 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

8 year olds can understand this stuff

Ken--I am even older than you are--and I remember getting lectured on this stuff back in my college days:

https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/

You only get to cry "wolf" so many times--and then even 8 year olds stop paying attention.

[SirVantes]

15 minutes ago, Cairo said:

You only get to cry "wolf" so many times--and then even 8 year olds stop paying attention.

I always thought the moral about crying wolf was that, if you care, you'd come running every time because ultimately there will be a wolf.  If you don't, your boy is dead, for the price of "a lesson".  For climate change, replace the boy with everyone.

I'm not sure if I'm joking or not.

[El Presidente]

10 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

 

enjoy higher crops and fewer deaths? so this is all just taking the piss because you can't really be serious? the figures of deaths attributed to climate change is already horrendous. crops? wow, that doesn't even deserve wasting time on a response. 8 year olds can understand this stuff. i guess it just depends on whether someone wants to. 

To be fair, I am enjoying the fact that we can now catch Barramundi in the Brisbane river without having to travel 6 hours north. 

😎

Woooohoo!

A fish tagging study found at least 35 barramundi living in the Brisbane River in 2021. One scientist from The University of Queensland says climate change could be the reason for the fish migration. 

[El Presidente]

10 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

so when you say alarmists, you mean realists? i know the deniers had to find a name for people who actually think science is not voodoo and fairy stories but is that the best they can do? still, feel free to take off the tin hat and get on board.

I love labels 

There are plenty of "flat earthers"  on this board as well as "Chicken Littles".  It resembles the real world and you know to which end of the spectrum you lean.  

The reality is somewhere in between the extremes proposed between the dinosaurs and the poultry. 

Western society will go green because that is where the votes are (The under 40 vote is rapidly moving away from right wing politics).Scientific reports will reflect the politics. God knows that is how they are largely paid (Govt grant).  The only kink in the Wests armour is those pesky power bill increases. Wasn't all that free sun/wind goodness suppose to make things cheaper? Wait...of course. It is the Russians fault. Hang on? How come power prices are tripling in Australia? 

The non democratic world will do whatever is best for themselves because they don't have to rely on getting elected every 3-4 years.  The pain in the arse is that they have a shiteload of people and by sheer luck manage to dominate manufacturing and rare earth minerals at the same time. 

I look forward to catching Barramundi regularly in Brisbane. I am not getting ahead of myself thinking that rising sea levels will mean I can shorlty launch my boat from Czars. That would be handy but I am not prepared to sell my trailer just yet. 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

10 feet in 300 years? estimates vary of course but not sure i have seen any that generous. 13 feet in the next 130 years seems to be about average

From NASA:

11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

so when you say alarmists, you mean realists?

Since when is solely focusing at the high end of models realistic? That means the rest of us can focus on the low end and also claim to be realists. Not to mention at this point it seems virtually all the models of the last 20 years have been wildly off to the high side. 

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

The reality is somewhere in between the extremes proposed between the dinosaurs and the poultry. 

Exactly.

11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

but "Let people deal with it as it comes." and "Let's stop trying to lead those who don't wish to be led." the implications of that go so far beyond climate change. what would history look like? that just does not even begin to work. 

In this case "leading" is forcing people at the point of a gun into a lower standard of living for moral posturing. Good luck with that, and no thanks. 

11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

enjoy higher crops and fewer deaths? so this is all just taking the piss because you can't really be serious? the figures of deaths attributed to climate change is already horrendous. crops? wow, that doesn't even deserve wasting time on a response. 8 year olds can understand this stuff. i guess it just depends on whether someone wants to

It's well understood that estimating deaths due to 2 degrees of warming is highly problematic and totally unreliable. And the connection between climate change and extreme weather events simply is not there. At best they can say it "may be" linked and that it is "expected to" increase severity. Also, higher standards of living can do a lot to protect people from extreme weather. And again, are they subtracting the lives saved from greater crop yields and less deaths from cold? 

Here's an argument that I actually heard: there are now more hospital admissions and injuries due to climate change since people are more active when it's warmer and get hurt during activities. You can't win. 

[El Presidente]

All participants need to play the ball and not the man.

Flat earthers, creationists,  chicken littles. All of you.......or your post goes "poof" and you will disappear quicker than the dodo.