Habanos Price Increase Confirmed - January 1/23

[havanaclub]

Does anyone have a link to the most updated island price list?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chas.Alpha]

I can't help but be curious what the 2023-24 crop looks like. What I heard is that 200+ tons of tobacco that was curing was lost after hurricane Ian. High dollar crap???

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Chas.Alpha said:

I can't help but be curious what the 2023-24 crop looks like. What I heard is that 200+ tons of tobacco that was curing was lost after hurricane Ian. High dollar crap???

30,000 tons. 

[SCgarman]

22 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

30,000 tons. 

This will just fuel even more endless price increases. Huge tonnage of tobacco destroyed. Even smaller supply. The perfect storm.

[El Presidente]

Just now, SCgarman said:

This will just fuel even more endless price increases. Huge tonnage of tobacco destroyed. Even smaller supply. The perfect storm.

That was on top of the 10,000 ton lost to fire earlier in the year. 

2022 hasn't been the best of years for the Cuban cigar consumer 

[Monterey]

33 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

That was on top of the 10,000 ton lost to fire earlier in the year. 

2022 hasn't been the best of years for the Cuban cigar consumer 

what % does 40,000 tons represent for a years normal production?

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, Monterey said:

what % does 40,000 tons represent for a years normal production?

That would be corresponding to a 2-yrs crop (at current figures). In fact figures are dire, but it is not as hefty as outlined by Rob. Plus, it’s - for obvious reasons - not fully clear yet as to how much will eventually be completely lost, since they are trying to salvage part of the affected leaf. And good news seems that no or only very little tabaco tapado had been affected. However, that figure is not yet including the expected (heavy) impact on planting for the current campaign. Latest figures I’ve heard were expected planting of only half or less of the potential acreage of the past years (which had already come down due to other issues...). And that under the premise that most of the curing barns that have been lost will be resurrected in time before next harvest.

The warehouse fire in May caused a loss of about 30 tons of tobacco. During Ian, according to the source below, about 11,000 t of the last crop that was still in PdR were “wettet”. They are trying to reuse as much as possible of that (whatever that means for the quality of the product in the end - perhaps we’ll see a Toscano-type CC in the future...😉).

Some figures here:

https://oncubanews.com/en/cuba/economy/tobacco-production-in-cuba-suffers-devastating-blow-with-hurricane-ian/?amp

[vladdraq]

"Toscano Type" uneven and wrinkled. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Yeah, i can see rooms at El Laguito packed with people ironing Cohibas. 

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, havanaclub said:

Does anyone have a link to the most updated island price list?

It should still be the same as posted in the pinned new Cuba prices thread. 

[Randolph]

I have to say I am now very happily smoking a very fine selection of Nicaraguan cigars that are of a standard comparable to or in some cases better than my Cuban favourites. Habanos has alienated itself from my wallet and I’m happy where I am now. Thank you and good evening. 

[KnightsAnole]

1 hour ago, Randolph said:

I have to say I am now very happily smoking a very fine selection of Nicaraguan cigars that are of a standard comparable to or in some cases better than my Cuban favourites. Habanos has alienated itself from my wallet and I’m happy where I am now. Thank you and good evening. 

I believe that’s the sentiment of a great many people. It would’ve been a better approach to give us less tobacco per box- in the form of new smaller cigars- for equal money, than than double the price of existing ones. It’s shocking to me anyway, that a company would so repeatedly treat its loyal customers and fan base with such a seeming level of indifference.

[El Presidente]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:56 PM, Randolph said:

I have to say I am now very happily smoking a very fine selection of Nicaraguan cigars that are of a standard comparable to or in some cases better than my Cuban favourites. Habanos has alienated itself from my wallet and I’m happy where I am now. Thank you and good evening. 

 

........meanwhile back at Habanos headquarters

 

 

[grabow32]

Looks like that 1x Behike 54 I got at an LCDH a few months back for $165 was a great investment. See, if you just want 6 months Habanos makes your previous purchases seem like bargains!  

[shokao]

It's been announced to all distributors right now. That's bad news.

[NSXCIGAR]

On 12/4/2022 at 7:16 AM, Bijan said:

Toilet paper a basic necessity.

Well, it's not an absolute necessity...

 

On 12/4/2022 at 7:16 AM, Bijan said:

From time immemorial until maybe 30, 40 years ago, Cuban cigars were not what the everyman would smoke. Normal people made fun of $1 cigars (or $10 cigars, or $0.25 cigars, depending on the time period)

I'm not sure about that. Excluding the 1930s I would say that the norm was to smoke clear Havanas in the US which would typically be around 50¢-$1.00 or $5-10 today--about the same as CCs were in early 2022.

Sure, there were always the low budget smokers and a big 5¢-25¢ cigar segment but I would say most people were at least occasionally smoking premium clear Havanas. It was Havanas that never really took off in the US except for the very wealthy. In England Manilas were extremely popular and the wealthy smoked Havanas but you had much more wealth disparity in England in the early 20th century than in the US. 

In Europe for the last 50 years Havanas have been the norm for the everyman. The cheap and cheerfuls were only $3-5 so very affordable for pretty much everyone. 

Cuban cigars have never really been considered a luxury item compared to other premium cigars until now and it's HSA forcing it so with price alone. Cohiba was certainly always considered a step above--I will concede that. But Trinidad not really. We'll see if the public thinks Trini is a luxury item. I would wager they won't. 

[Bijan]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm not sure about that. Excluding the 1930s I would say that the norm was to smoke clear Havanas in the US which would typically be around 50¢-$1.00 or $5-10 today--about the same as CCs were in early 2022.

First clear Havanas (Cuban filler and not cuban wrapper which is the expensive part, you yourself said so in another thread) are not actual Havanas. And $0.50 to $1.00 back then would have been somewhat prohibitive (much more so actual Cuban puros, with Cuban wrapper) because that was before wages stalled and did not outpace inflation.

"As we review these costs, don't forget that the average household income in the United States in 1920 was approximately $3,269.40–that's about $42,142.08 today, with inflation–so keep that in mind as we travel back 100 years and do a little window shopping."

https://www.countryliving.com/life/g33398396/what-things-cost-100-years-ago/

 

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

In Europe for the last 50 years Havanas have been the norm for the everyman. The cheap and cheerfuls were only $3-5 so very affordable for pretty much everyone. 

I had said they have been the norm for the everyman for the last 30 or 40 years. You're just pushing it back a decade. Even if we concede that it still stands that before then they were not.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

First clear Havanas (Cuban filler and not cuban wrapper which is the expensive part, you yourself said so in another thread) are not actual Havanas. And $0.50 to $1.00 back then would have been somewhat prohibitive (much more so actual Cuban puros, with Cuban wrapper) because that was before wages stalled and did not outpace inflation.

Yes, clear Havanas and Havanas are different. But clear Havanas were considered Cuban cigars in the US for all intents and purposes. Havanas were not smoked by many and were not even really a status symbol in the US. If anyone bought them it was the wealthy but so few even did it doesn't matter. Clear Havanas were the only Cuban cigars 99% of US cigar smokers knew and most were considered on par with or superior to Havanas at far lower prices.

The Europeans smoked Havanas because they didn't have the domestic tobacco industry the US did but many were smoking Manilas. The point is that Cuban cigars in any form were not considered a pure luxury cigar as HSA is trying to foist upon us. They may have been a step up in many instances but they were nothing more than that. Cuban cigars were just cigars and had been so through 2022. 

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

"As we review these costs, don't forget that the average household income in the United States in 1920 was approximately $3,269.40–that's about $42,142.08 today, with inflation–so keep that in mind as we travel back 100 years and do a little window shopping."

50c to $1 cigars would have been the top of the line for most clear Havanas. I'm sure they ran the gamut of price. The 5c-10c cigars were the standard cheap and cheerful range. I don't recall seeing any clear Havanas advertised for more than $1. that was top shelf and would be about $12-15 today which is pretty much in line with most Cohiba in Feb 22. 

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

I had said they have been the norm for the everyman for the last 30 or 40 years. You're just pushing it back a decade. Even if we concede that it still stands that before then they were not.

I misread that. Thought you said they hadn't been the norm.

[Bijan]

46 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Yes, clear Havanas and Havanas are different. But clear Havanas were considered Cuban cigars in the US for all intents and purposes.

Not to be too much of a jerk, but there are those that think that red dot Cohibas are just as good 

How much would we value a cigar rolled in some other country with a non-Cuban wrapper and likely second rate Cuban filler.
 

Edit: Put another way, why are vintage clear Havanas, so affordable today, compared to vintage Havanas? If it's because there were so many more produced, doesn't that go to quality? Is the only reason Cuba can't produce more cigars a shortage of rollers? Or is it due to a shortage of premium wrapper? (and premium filler I guess, as the experiment with increased production around the millennium might have showed). 

46 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Havanas were not smoked by many and were not even really a status symbol in the US. If anyone bought them it was the wealthy but so few even did it doesn't matter.

I mean it was enough that JFK had his aide was raid all of Washington for a thousand of his favorites (Petit Upmanns), before the embargo.

If it was only the wealthy, was it merely because of duties? Or because they were actually much more expensive? Was supply and demand such that the fact that they were only bought by a handful of wealthy people, insignificant in numbers, not a sure indication of the cost and/or value?

46 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The point is that Cuban cigars in any form were not considered a pure luxury cigar as HSA is trying to foist upon us. They may have been a step up in many instances but they were nothing more than that. Cuban cigars were just cigars and had been so through 2022. 

A lot of luxury goods had this same arch. Champagne, luxury watches, etc, etc. They were luxuries from their inception, then somewhat affordable and then now luxuries again.

In the watch thread you'll see that Rolex watches were under a thousand dollars in the early 80s. If you follow Ken's posts on wines and champagne you'll see that some majorly unaffordable champagnes now were very affordable then (by relative standards).

If you read novels over time from the Count of Montecristo through to US novels pre WW2, you'll see that Havanas/Cuban cigars were considered a luxury.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

How much would we value a cigar rolled in some other country with a non-Cuban wrapper and likely second rate Cuban filler.

Clear Havanas weren't using sub-par filler. They were competing with the Cuban brands for the same filler from the farmers directly. There was little to no reason to buy Havanas in the US. Same leaf at a higher price. The rolling operations and factories in the US were quite advanced and very well established. Having a cigar rolled in Cuba wouldn't have been seen as a advantage. 

And yes, the price difference between Havanas and clear Havanas was mainly duties and transportation costs. Havanas were cheaper in Britain and clear Havanas were cheaper in the US. 

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

lot of luxury goods had this same arch. Champagne, luxury watches, etc, etc. They were luxuries from their inception, then somewhat affordable and then now luxuries again.

Average people aren't buying Champagne or Rolexes. $1,000 in the early 80s was a lot of money. Those have never been affordable for the average person. Cuban cigars have been.

They never had the scarcity they do now. A hand rolled premium cigar cost about $10 for the last 100 years no matter the origin. I don't think cigars are analogous to those. 

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

I mean it was enough that JFK had his aide was raid all of Washington for a thousand of his favorites (Petit Upmanns), before the embargo

JFK would have been someone who would have paid the premium for a cigar he wanted. In his social circles it may have been seen as more worldly or more fashionable to smoke Havanas. But that doesn't mean they were considered Rolexes. It wasn't like the top 10% were smoking Havanas. More like the top 1% and they weren't that much more expensive. Nobody cared. If it was a status symbol they would have been more popular in the US than they were.

I think smoking Havanas came down to nothing more than personal preference. Or possibly clear Havanas were looked down on in certain social circles. It wouldn't make sense for anyone else to pay a premium for what was essentially the same leaf. In fact at the time many even considered Connecticut or Sumatra wrapper to be superior to Cuban. 

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

If you read novels over time from the Count of Montecristo through to US novels pre WW2, you'll see that Havanas/Cuban cigars were considered a luxury.

I would say this was thought compared to the cheap alternatives. Tobacco never cost a lot of money--even the best. $5 or $10 in today's money for a cigar was a lot in 1900. So they were luxuries in that sense but it's like Starbucks is a luxury compared to 7-11 coffee. It doesn't mean it's unaffordable per se, just more. Or one could say Scotch is luxury item compared to Irish whiskey. Most would spend a bit more for the Scotch although it's not that much more. (This example isn't as relevant today but still holds). 

Since the market has moved away from non-premium cigars that's all we have, so we've been paying premium prices forever. Cigar demand was very different 100 years ago. Everyone was smoking cigars back then. Private industry meant much more efficient production than we see today in Cuba. Only the poorest would be smoking non-Cubans although Manilas were quite popular among all classes in Britain. 

 

[BonVivant]

wow! the two guys opining here have no idea on what is going on at all - in a valley where all are blind...etc...

[shokao]

I don't like the way things are moving for CC's. HSA want to take it from the Average Joe who enjoyed cigars for most of his adult life and deliver for the guys with expensive luxury clothes and who worries about social status. It's all about money anyway, can't blame them but I don't feel obligated to support this kind of strategy by any means. I rather stop smoking cigars or turn it in a once in a month occasion then to buy overpriced cigars because someone said that's the new norm. No, thank you. 

Thanks to @El Presidente we're going to fill that void with Nudies.

[Oscar300]

I bought 1 Behike 52 when they came out @ £21ish (still got it).  With the next increase, UK sale price will be £525 for a single.

Might have a little cry.

[Bijan]

10 hours ago, BonVivant said:

wow! the two guys opining here have no idea on what is going on at all - in a valley where all are blind...etc...

I am one of those blind guys. Sorry to have been blowing hot air if that is the case.

I wasn't around then. All I know is from books, the few historical ones about cigars (the Zino Davidoff book) and some novels.

I would be glad to be enlightened.

 

12 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Average people aren't buying Champagne or Rolexes. $1,000 in the early 80s was a lot of money. Those have never been affordable for the average person. Cuban cigars have been.

A VCR in the early 80s was $800. I'm guessing a box of Cohiba Lanceros would have been $200? $250? A bottle of vintage Champagne would probably have been what $20? A Rolex Daytona was said to have been around $800.

Which ones of those were crazy luxuries? How about now?

[vladdraq]

Took me years to understand the flavours i should look for in a cuban cigar. (i wasn't a cigarette smoker) I worked my self down, starting with Cohiba, the glamorous, i had to understand. With these new prices i couldn't afford that "understanding". Not sure how one can. The occasional smokers ready to pay $$$$ probably won't become a true aficionado, like many here. Superficial. The new reality.

[Bijan]

https://www.ft.com/content/a7cbc3b7-f3b3-445c-bf64-51cedd5e9a29

"For decades the Rolex watch has remained the ultimate status symbol — one in plentiful supply. In the 1960s Fidel Castro wore two at once. Those days are over."

 "“Rolex stopped being a retail brand last year and shows no sign of returning any time soon,” Corder proclaimed on WatchPro in February. “The reality today is that members of the public cannot simply walk into a shop and walk out with a Rolex . . . damage is most certainly being done.”"