Habanos Price Increase Confirmed - January 1/23

[B44]

Unbelievable. It seems like they just did a price increase 🫠

[TheDonTX]

Insane! Wth are they thinking? I understand trying to survive but this is nuts. I feel so bad for noobs. Im one myself honestly (4 years into Cubans) but at least I had a chance to build up a good collection with some unicorns at a reasonable price. This 100% locks out so many botl’s. It sucks they wont get to enjoy some awesome sticks. This brings about so many weird emotions lol. I hate that I regret sharing so much 2 years ago. Giving away CPE’s  etc. Its making me greedy. It makes me think about smoking certain cigars at certain times which I hate. I like smoking anything whenever. I dont want to ration my cigars. I want to enjoy them but this is forcing me to think differently which is a really weird area of this hobby thats not fun. Either way popcorn is ready. We have no choice but to buckle up. Lets see where this all goes. 
 

[KnightsAnole]

The last one went over well so, I have big expectations for this one.

[PigFish]

Another leap forward for the communist business model.

When you cannot make a cigar with the worlds best tobacco and a salve labor workforce, you deserve to be put out of business. 

[TygaWoods]

I guess this makes me really want to sit down with myself and think about my fav 3 cigars and just I guess stockpile them for the next 5, 10, 15+ years

[Nevrknow]

14 hours ago, TheDonTX said:

. I hate that I regret sharing so much 2 years ago. Giving away CPE’s  etc. Its making me greedy.

Can't think like that. You ( like I ) gave them away gladly at the old price. It's still just a cigar. You plan on selling them? I don't. I'm still giving away a cigar that cost what it did back then. You're thinking of perceived value. Stop. It's only worth that if you sell it. 

I still gladly share. Given and been given by others and will continue to do so. Happy to have been blessed and got in when I did. 

[jakebarnes]

57 minutes ago, Nevrknow said:

Can't think like that. You ( like I ) gave them away gladly at the old price. It's still just a cigar. You plan on selling them? I don't. I'm still giving away a cigar that cost what it did back then. You're thinking of perceived value. Stop. It's only worth that if you sell it. 

I still gladly share. Given and been given by others and will continue to do so. Happy to have been blessed and got in when I did. 

Same. I've got more than I'll ever knwo what to do with. Still always bring a few to hand out to new acquaintances at the lounge. Life is too short to hoard and be weird about tangible goods. 

[shokao]

The worst part of this price increase its the retailers behavior towards that new price. Of the official increase is 15% the final consumer gets 35%. That's sad.

[Arabian]

The U.S consumer has access to plenty of NC cigars, so there’s already an alternative. But those in the Euro-Zone or some regions within the ME may find a hard time to explore other options outside Cubans. 

[SmokyFontaine]

What annoys me is they're getting away with it and they will continue to do so. Sure production sucks but any time any desirable cigar is in stock at a host of places, it sells out in hours, even at the higher prices. We can all say the price gouging will cost them business, but they're selling everything they can make. It's nuts. They're right, and we're wrong. And i don't like it.

[shokao]

3 minutes ago, SmokyFontaine said:

What annoys me is they're getting away with it and they will continue to do so. Sure production sucks but any time any desirable cigar is in stock at a host of places, it sells out in hours, even at the higher prices. We can all say the price gouging will cost them business, but they're selling everything they can make. It's nuts. They're right, and we're wrong. And i don't like it.

Seems like they found out that people is getting acquainted with paying a lot more to smoke what they like. If everything sells out fast they can still increase to maximize profit. When we start to notice some good cigars in stock regularly it means the prices will be sky high. That’s depressing to say the least.

[Hollywood Ninja]

8 hours ago, Nevrknow said:

Can't think like that. You ( like I ) gave them away gladly at the old price. It's still just a cigar. You plan on selling them? I don't. I'm still giving away a cigar that cost what it did back then. You're thinking of perceived value. Stop. It's only worth that if you sell it. 
I still gladly share. Given and been given by others and will continue to do so. Happy to have been blessed and got in when I did. 

While this is totally true part of the pain for me is in replacement of the smoke I give away. I was not fortunate enough to stock up a lifetime's worth when prices were reasonable. I still have enough stock to last me for years but when my Cohiba and Trini are gone, they are gone for good. And sadly it appears when almost any of my stock is gone it may be gone for good. Therefore parting with any CCs is painful or at the very least requires some thought before doing so.

Sent from my SM-G996U1 using Tapatalk
 

[Lamboinee]

This article, Cuba, the Centrally Planned Cigar, and Its Rivals, by Kent Jones (2019)  was very eye-opening for me as I had not considered the interplay of all the market/political/financial/etc. factors. I am curious how much of the price increase is tied to these factors. Food for thought.Tobacco Market and Other Considerations in Cuba.pdf

 

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, SmokyFontaine said:

What annoys me is they're getting away with it and they will continue to do so. Sure production sucks but any time any desirable cigar is in stock at a host of places, it sells out in hours, even at the higher prices. We can all say the price gouging will cost them business, but they're selling everything they can make. It's nuts. They're right, and we're wrong. And i don't like it.

We really don't know how many boxes are moving right now. Yes, Reyes is selling on 24:24 at $500 but the fat cats in Asia and Canada may be the only ones buying these boxes. And how many were offered? Could be 5. Don't know. All I know is Reyes, Coloniales, Siglo I, Exquisitos and Panetelas were stacked high in Cuba and not moving. 

These prices are being supported by low stock and the limited number of non-price conscious buyers. As long as production remains this low it will continue. And as I've said, HSA is losing revenue whether they admit it or not. 

[Fugu]

Far from defending HSA’s current pricing decisions, but.... When finally portals like BR or MO jumped on flipping new production Cohiba and other new special releases, it became definitely clear to the dumbest (and long before to the savvy) that HSA pricing for certain product was wrong in the first place. It’s not as if we (read the consumer) weren’t blamable ourselves. Sorry, but when I follow 24:24 it only makes me laugh about the whining in threads like this.

Like it or not, you’re not priced out by HSA, you are priced out by your wealthier BOTL brethren.

Point of the matter - a 2-5 (-15) percent annual adjustment has been the normal for long. The announced next rise is pretty much in line with that, and in the light of current overall inflation - and in particular in the light of the situation in Cuba - appears.... mild.

Then again, HSA, i.e. the marketing and sales body, is in the hands of investors, not tobacco folks any more (sure, technically 50%...). The production side also had always been heavily dependent on foreign investment and support, in the form of materials, machinery, crop advance financing and credits. You bet, the major part of ROI will now end up in Asia, not in Cuba. As will be a majority of the product.

 

All the while, no changes to Quintero and JLP, so all good as far as I am concerned. 😂😂😂

[vladdraq]

agree Fugu, but they must know if there's not support for the basics (aka growers) there is no any ROI. These guys are not stupid, actually all the moves they made were brilliant. At least for the short term.

 

[asudevil08]

On 11/29/2022 at 6:26 PM, MrBirdman said:

There are too many good NC makers that have emerged in the past decade, and they’re continuing to refine their product. I’ve been astonished how much better the market is than when I mostly gave up on NC nearly 10 years ago. 

Its shocking the quality and flavor that exists within the NC range.  If it werent for my voyeuristic tendencies/masochism to CC's, I'd have moved on long ago - feels like a weird ex gf at this rate.  

[Lamboinee]

12 hours ago, asudevil08 said:

There are too many good NC makers that have emerged in the past decade,

Pray tell, what are some of the ones that strike your fancy? I agree there are some good ones out there, but I'm always curious to hear what more seasoned CC fans have to say about the NC market that I grew up in.

[Monterey]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:09 AM, Fugu said:

Point of the matter - a 2-5 (-15) percent annual adjustment has been the normal for long. The announced next rise is pretty much in line with that, and in the light of current overall inflation - and in particular in the light of the situation in Cuba - appears.... mild.

Incorrect.  The annual adjustment happens in May/June.  By moving it up nearly 6 months early, it is the equivalent of doubling the stated rate.  So a January 2-5% (-15) rate works out to be more like a 4-10% (-30) done in December/January.  Your "normal" statement completely ignores the timing of this "annual" adjustment.  It is no where near in line with inflation as most of the increases are 10% (20% given the 6 months window)  SIGNIFICANTLY above inflation.    Inflation seems to finally dropping to normal.  Month over month in the US it has been flat over the last few months.

Interesting defense of the price increase.

[dominattorney]

9 minutes ago, Monterey said:

Incorrect.  The annual adjustment happens in May/June.  By moving it up nearly 6 months early, it is the equivalent of doubling the stated rate.  So a January 2-5% (-15) rate works out to be more like a 4-10% (-30) done in December/January.  Your "normal" statement completely ignores the timing of this "annual" adjustment.  It is no where near in line with inflation as most of the increases are 10% (20% given the 6 months window)  SIGNIFICANTLY above inflation.    Inflation seems to finally dropping to normal.  Month over month in the US it has been flat over the last few months.

Interesting defense of the price increase.

I dont think @Fugu is defending the price increase, just attempting to contextualize it. I don't disagree with his analysis, though you are correct the normal increase comes in May/June. Moving it up with all thats gone on in the past 18 months makes sense. 

[Monterey]

4 minutes ago, dominattorney said:

 Moving it up with all thats gone on in the past 18 months makes sense. 

Huh?  What does the past 18 months have to do with the most current 6 months?  They already addressed the first 12 months of the prior 18 months is the last May/June MASSIVE price increase. 

Besides, what price increase are they seeing on the expense side?  They basically get the tobacco for free, I unaware of any increase of salary/labor they gave their rollers.  Fertilizer and transportation costs does not justify a 20% (annualized) price increase.   The past 6 months has seen inflation grow 2.7% (in the US). and up just 1.4% since their last price increase.

Crazy how people defend this.  This is just them taking advantage of the situation.  Plain and simple.  And they should because people apparently are willing to pay it.

[Corylax18]

8 minutes ago, Monterey said:

They basically get the tobacco for free, I unaware of any increase of salary/labor they gave their rollers.  Fertilizer and transportation costs does not justify a 20% (annualized) price increase.

You're ignoring the packaging and shipping and the fact that Cuba's currency/international buying power dropped by roughly 150% over the last 2 1/2 years. 

I agree that the raw materials and labor are essentially free, but they have seen an increase in costs, its un fair/un true to say otherwise. 

Commercial flights have been slowly opening back up, so while freight will remain expensive, it should start working its way closer to normal.

 I've heard from two different sources now that they're running out of room to stack cigars at El Laguito. They have 10s of thousands of sticks, but no bands, no boxes, no stickers. The communist government doesn't even have enough money to keep the power on at the factories all day, let alone to buy and ship in all the packaging they need. My point is, its not a raw material issue. Despite all the "world is falling" news we've heard from PdR. 

All of the above being said, the current increases just dont match reality. But, as Rob has stated, HSA is creating their own reality. Your/My reality doesnt matter to them. They've been right so far, but they wont be forever. The last boxed/banded Cuban Cigar I purchased was in November 2019, in Havana. It may well be my last ever. I've been back to Cuba twice and not purchased a single "official" stick on either trip. I refuse to be a pawn in whatever game HSA is playing right now. 

[Monterey]

8 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

You're ignoring the packaging and shipping and the fact that Cuba's currency/international buying power dropped by roughly 150% over the last 2 1/2 years. 

 

2.5 years.  Mentioned prior to that, 18 months.  All that was addressed 6 months ago in the massive price increase.  This has to do with JUST the past 6 months since the last price increase.  I'm sure people will defend when they raise their prices again in 6 months.

Agreed though, I'm out and have moved exclusively to non-cubans.   Perhaps I'll head out to the farms in future years and enjoy those farm rolls.

[Corylax18]

3 minutes ago, Monterey said:

2.5 years.  Mentioned prior to that, 18 months.  All that was addressed 6 months ago in the massive price increase.  This has to do with JUST the past 6 months since the last price increase.  I'm sure people will defend when they raise their prices again in 6 months.

Its been a gradual drop over that time period and it keeps getting worse. 24:1, then 100:1, now closer to 175:1 and falling. They wont be able to chase that with price increases though. 

4 minutes ago, Monterey said:

Perhaps I'll head out to the farms in future years and enjoy those farm rolls.

There are still a lot of great people rolling a lot of great cigars for reasonable prices. The Hurricane really wrecked things in that area though, so tourism is going to be iffy for a while yet. It was never an easy trip, but I think its worth it more now than ever. 

[asudevil08]

9 hours ago, Lamboinee said:

Pray tell, what are some of the ones that strike your fancy? I agree there are some good ones out there, but I'm always curious to hear what more seasoned CC fans have to say about the NC market that I grew up in.

So being that my palette has more of a Cuban profile preference, I've had to somewhat retrain what I like versus what I thought I liked.  

With that being said, lots of good stuff to try now that I'm more open to testing the waters.  Blackbird, Dunbarton, Tatuaje Veracu (lots of good varieties inside the portfolio if you're willing to venture), Plasencia, Caldwell, most A.J. Fernandez offerings, Southern Draw, My Father (been around awhile), Undercrown.  Oh also loving Eiroa right now - amazing stuff there. 

My biggest issue when semi transitioning was trying to find the cuban flavor profile inside these Mexican, Dominican, Honduran, Brazilian leaves -  And that was the worst avenue to take.  Once I allowed those leaves to speak for themselves I really started appreciatiag what they had to offer on their own merits, and not trying to compare or contrast with another product that it is not trying to replicate (maybe Pete Johnson does a little).  

One of the things I hear a lot here and on other boards is the NC portfolio is too big to know where to start so lets just keep locked into the CC's we all know and love - which isnt necessarily a bad thing - but i'd say its hard to go wrong with lots of the NCs that are currently out there because of how many great options exist (flavor, body, etc).  FWIW. 

Hope thats helpful.