CA's Unboxing of Cohiba 55 - Counterfeit Box?

[NSXCIGAR]

The above codes were applied by Habanos and the industry...

What the hell does that mean? 

And yes, we know it's no secret UAO makes no sense. They actually perfectly confirm the problem and then fail to explain it.

To be fair perhaps the original question was something like "can you confirm the codes" rather than "can you explain why your codes look fake."

13 hours ago, Bigkahuna said:

Clean water is a luxury

Cuba's water is clean. Cubans can drink it without issues. Most Americans can't tolerate Mexican water either. As far as not brushing your teeth with it I've never heard such a thing. It's not like it's got radium in it. Don't swallow it. Bottled is hard to come by so I just boil it on the stove and refill bottles at the casa. One time I forgot to boil water for coffee and after about 2 days of drinking it in the morning I had a very minor stomach ache that went away after I boiled it on day 3. 

15 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

I've seen a lot of emphasis in this thread of the box code implying a factory and how it's not right to do that if the cigars are known to have been rolled elsewhere, etc.  I'm unaware that the factory codes are meant to be some sort of promise of anything.  I'm happily awaiting some enlightenment.

Factory codes prove a cigar left that factory boxed and sealed. People know El Laguito is the most--really only--desirable factory. For the Phoenicia 35 Phoenicia made an official statement that all cigars were rolled at El Laguito. Except about half the boxes showed factory codes other than what was known to be El Laguito. In my book that's a word that rhymes with broad. 

By putting the El Laguito code on the box they are effectively representing that these were rolled at El Laguito. Except Cuba didn't stamp these and no one will convince me they did based on the goofy code and font. Clearly Phoenicia wants us to think these came from El Laguito although we have no way of knowing that unless Cuba stamped them which again I don't believe they did. 

[gregspringer1]

Copying my email from a Private group  is a breach of trust

 

6 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The above codes were applied by Habanos and the industry...

What the hell does that mean? 

And yes, we know it's no secret UAO makes no sactually perfectly confirm the problem and then fail 

 

 

@NSXCIGAR I spoke to Walid personally and no I didn’t ask him to confirm the code.  I explicitly asked why they are using UAO and did they actually sell that box.  He gave me all the codes that will be on the premier boxes.   The fact that you’re trying to imply that I used the wrong wording is ridiculous.  Also this was stolen off a private Facebook group never intended for FOH.  ITS a breach of trust

 

14 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

Found this on a FB group.  A member emailed Phoenicia and received following response. (Apologies to OP if  they are on FOH.  I edited out personal info.)

Some "clarity" on box codes

Stealing my emails intended for a private Facebook group is a breach of trust.  Now Walid isn’t going to answer my questions anymore 

[Puros Y Vino]

48 minutes ago, gregspringer1 said:

Stealing my emails intended for a private Facebook group is a breach of trust.  Now Walid isn’t going to answer my questions anymore 

Hmm.  This took a somewhat unexpected turn.  You are correct. I should have asked for permission.  With that said.  I did not "steal your mail".  This bit of info was put out there by you.  Whether it be private or public FB, it was going to get out there anyways.  And while that may not excuse my use of it in your eyes, that is the reality of it.  I anonymized where it made sense. In retrospect, I should have just paraphrased the existing text.  You put that info out to help the community on the matter. I felt I was doing the same with another audience.  No ill intention on my part.  I will grant that this is a bit of breach of etiquette and for that I will apologize. 

[El Presidente]

Late to the party here.

Greg I have no issue in deleting anything that you wish. We can certainly reach out to Wahid directly. 

The information provided however certainly soothes much of the conjecture. Your call. PM me directly. I am off to bed but any of the mods can meet your requriements (overnight) . 

[Puros Y Vino]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

Late to the party here.

Greg I have no issue in deleting anything that you wish. We can certainly reach out to Wahid directly. 

The information provided however certainly soothes much of the conjecture. Your call. PM me directly. I am off to bed but any of the mods can meet your requriements (overnight) . 

I've already deleting the relevant info and reached out to Greg personally.  I don't know Wahid, so I can't close that loop. 

[NSXCIGAR]

19 hours ago, gregspringer1 said:

The fact that you’re trying to imply that I used the wrong wording is ridiculous.

I implied nothing. I said "perhaps." If the question to them isn't posted we kind of have to speculate as the answer given doesn't explain anything as to why they are using UAO (the apparent question) and why the font looks fake. 

[Fugu]

9 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

as to why they are using UAO (the apparent question)

...and it’s not just that. The obvious hot potato that no official seems wanting to touch is, why and how have these boxes been stamped outside of Cuba? Since when is Cuba using / allowing third party to use fantasy codes? Codes, entirely unrelated to a real factory or the true, producing factory, respectively? (Note: using a non-existing phantom code is nothing more than a fantasy code, whether or not it’s been in use before is pretty irrelevant) And finally, why has that been approved by Cubatabaco (the TM-holder and HSA JV-partner)?

If we take the available Phoenicia-info at the word, then these boxes have been stamped by Habanos SA. Perhaps even through a subcontractor. Just to remind - HSA is the marketing and distribution branch and is not involved in production (apart from developing new product). That is Tabacuba. And Tabacuba is the (only) entity that’s stamping boxes in the factories. So that now, is a highly unexpected first.

And the elephant in the room: Is that current path of an obvious erosion of standards for the sake of bolstering up returns (to put it mildly) in any way related to the new JV partner of HSA? What’s next?!

[NSXCIGAR]

13 hours ago, Fugu said:

The obvious hot potato that no official seems wanting to touch is, why and how have these boxes been stamped outside of Cuba?

Yes, it comes down to that. I don't like the word "applied." HSA doesn't stamp boxes. That response seems to me to be that of a used car salesman (broken English and all), not a serious person at a major distributor attempting to allay concerns with transparency.

At this point I do not believe these were stamped in Cuba. So far there appears to be an avoidance of the issue which, if continued, suggests some kind of shenanigans and/or some kind of cover-up which, as is often the case, may be worse than the crime. 

What I believe happened is the cigars were sent to Phoenicia separately from the packaging which makes sense if the boxes weren't made in Cuba. Send them directly to Phoenicia, fine, not a problem. They also had multiple packaging formats and different bands. So send it all to Phoenicia and let them figure it out. The stickers and seals were probably sent to Phoenicia for them to apply or brought to Phoenicia by an HSA official. All 10,000 boxes could have been packed and stickers applied by a couple of people over a weekend. However code stamps aren't HSA, they're Tabacuba. No one had one. Phoenicia decided they had to have a code as they have a fetish for El Laguito and they thought for some reason the lack of a code would be curious. So they figured anything was better than nothing, got on WordPad and someone thought the code in 21 was UAO. In fact they literally may not know MAR was the new code, and it's not up to Tabacuba to tell them anything about codes. So they put them out and are beginning to realize people care more about the odd code than they thought and the implications that follow which they figured were nothing but really are something, like does HSA or Tabacuba know about this? 

[El Presidente]

Paraphrasing from Charles Krauthammer

"Whenever you're faced with an explanation of what's going on in Cuba, the choice between incompetence and conspiracy, always choose incompetence."

 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Whenever you're faced with an explanation of what's going on in Cuba...

While 100% correct, in this case I think the problems may have occurred outside Cuba. I would be much more forgiving it they hadn't. 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

While 100% correct, in this case I think the problems may have occurred outside Cuba. I would be much more forgiving it they hadn't. 

I understand the theory, but it is still supposition.