CA's Unboxing of Cohiba 55 - Counterfeit Box?

[havanaclub]

I honestly think the people who are paying these prices for this premier release could care less about UAO MAR POO etc etc or that the bands are wrong or care even if they are fake. They got a cohiba in they hand or collection and that’s what matters


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[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, havanaclub said:

I honestly think the people who are paying these prices for this premier release could care less about UAO MAR POO etc etc or that the bands are wrong or care even if they are fake. They got a cohiba in they hand or collection and that’s what matters

Well, people buy glass tops at the beach too. 

If you're buying them to smoke, go for it. If you're buying them to collect or investment they may be impacted down the road. 

My interest is only that it's a real, real bad look for Phoenicia and by proxy HSA, and that they are possibly making an indirectly false claim about the cigars coming from El Laguito.

I also feel for the retailers who are going to be dealing with a lot of raised eyebrows and possible returns due to this. If I were them I would send these back to Phoenicia. 

[ATGroom]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

My interest is only that it's a real, real bad look for Phoenicia and by proxy HSA, and that they are possibly making an indirectly false claim about the cigars coming from El Laguito.

I haven't seen Phoenicia or HSA make the claim anywhere, but for what it's worth, I'd say it is almost certain that the first batch of an extra special anniversary Cohiba EL cigar was rolled at El Laguito.

Whatever happened with the code, I don't think it was done to hide the fact that they were secretly rolled at Carlos Balino.

[NSXCIGAR]

14 minutes ago, ATGroom said:

I haven't seen Phoenicia or HSA make the claim anywhere, but for what it's worth, I'd say it is almost certain that the first batch of an extra special anniversary Cohiba EL cigar was rolled at El Laguito.

Whatever happened with the code, I don't think it was done to hide the fact that they were secretly rolled at Carlos Balino.

I just think Phoenicia didn't want to release them without a code to "make sure" people know it's El Laguito. It wouldn't be the first time they've wanted to push El Laguito as a marketing gimmick. And not the first time it's backfired on them. 

The idea that they could just a) whip up a code on WordPad and b) not even be bothered to verify whether it was the correct factory code is just astonishingly inept. 

I guess these will be "Definitely not counterfeited and from El Laguito--take our word for it". 

Like I said earlier, I hope their vendors get pummeled with returns and slow sales because of this. It's on them for accepting these things and not jamming them back down Phoenicia's throat. They can't even take the damn stickers off because Phoenicia has confirmed they're supposed to be there! 

[SirVantes]

22 minutes ago, ATGroom said:

Whatever happened with the code, I don't think it was done to hide the fact that they were secretly rolled at Carlos Balino.

The divergence of motive and consequence is what makes this life interesting.  Leaving aside the differences of views and theories on who and why, I believe everyone agrees about the consequences: more uncertainty, that goes beyond this release ie. this is bad.  In a decent world, he who did it would say "I did it.  Had every right.  But I hear that it's bad.  Won't do it again." Or "I did it, will keep doing it.  Find your assurances elsewhere."  Either way would draw a line under this.

[Tstew75]

#allfactorycodesmatter

@ATGroom if they were rolled at Carlos Balino, the code should be be one of these: MSA>BEL>ETA

The deception is deep here

[SCgarman]

6 hours ago, havanaclub said:

I honestly think the people who are paying these prices for this premier release could care less about UAO MAR POO etc etc or that the bands are wrong or care even if they are fake. They got a cohiba in they hand or collection and that’s what matters


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Would you drop 100K on a Rolex watch and not care if it was genuine? As long as the dial said ROLEX ? Not all wealthy folk are stupid. 😁

[mprach024]

11 hours ago, Bijan said:

using it as an imperfect tool for dismissing obvious fakes, I don't know I how much value I see in them.

Please tell me what an obvious fake code looks like, if this isn’t one

[BrooksW]

For what it is worth, I just received this box straight from Phoenicia:

[mprach024]

3 hours ago, SCgarman said:

Would you drop 100K on a Rolex watch and not care if it was genuine? As long as the dial said ROLEX ? Not all wealthy folk are stupid. 😁

In this case it says ROLeX 

[Chibearsv]

Ok, I'm going to ask a few dumb questions.  What is the reason for factory codes instead of factory abbreviations?  Are the codes meant to ensure/guarantee that the buyer knows which factory the cigars were rolled in?  Or are they simply an internal tracking device?

I've seen a lot of emphasis in this thread of the box code implying a factory and how it's not right to do that if the cigars are known to have been rolled elsewhere, etc.  I'm unaware that the factory codes are meant to be some sort of promise of anything.  I'm happily awaiting some enlightenment.

[Bijan]

48 minutes ago, mprach024 said:

Please tell me what an obvious fake code looks like, if this isn’t one

That's what I meant, this is the only value I see in them (telling a fake box from a real one). I don't see much value in chasing factories based on code.

[BrooksW]

On 9/13/2022 at 9:46 AM, Cairo said:

I accept the explanation of the box code--but the two different types of bands in a box of five cigars needs some transparency.     If there is some "mixing and matching" going on--where exactly is that happening?

I own many boxes of Cubans and not one has different band labels and fonts in the same box--these would be a "hard pass" for me even if they were RASCCs.

Just a note on this: I was at the 55th release event in Cuba, and they handed out non-Premier banded 55th cigars there. I have no knowledge either way, but if all of the Premier-banded cigars and the ones for the release event were rolled and banded around the same time, I could absolutely see Habanos putting all of the cigars (i.e. cigars with both bands) in the same general place to store them until they were boxed/handed out at the event, then pulling from that stock to fill the Premier boxes. Then, one of the workers pulls some cigars from the wrong pile, and viola, two different banded cigars in one box.

Things are not going great in Cuba right now. Bottled water is so rare it is almost being used as a second form of currency. Do you (the general "you", not Cairo specifically) think a worker who can't get a bottle of water anywhere in the city is going to give a happy crap that the bands in one box out of the 300 he has to fill that day are correct?

[jakebarnes]

7 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

Ok, I'm going to ask a few dumb questions.  What is the reason for factory codes instead of factory abbreviations?  Are the codes meant to ensure/guarantee that the buyer knows which factory the cigars were rolled in?  Or are they simply an internal tracking device?

I've seen a lot of emphasis in this thread of the box code implying a factory and how it's not right to do that if the cigars are known to have been rolled elsewhere, etc.  I'm unaware that the factory codes are meant to be some sort of promise of anything.  I'm happily awaiting some enlightenment.

I'd imagine the factory codes (and the subsequent changes to them) is a fraud protection item

[Bijan]

1 hour ago, Chibearsv said:

Ok, I'm going to ask a few dumb questions.  What is the reason for factory codes instead of factory abbreviations?  Are the codes meant to ensure/guarantee that the buyer knows which factory the cigars were rolled in?  Or are they simply an internal tracking device?

Internal tracking codes.

They're literally random and changed every now and again so that buyers don't try to seek or avoid or cherry pick cigars from certain factories. But the codes for the famous factories leak every time.

They used to also have a simple cipher so that people couldn't tell the month and year, but I guess they figured that just made old cigars desirable and people would buy old cigars sitting on the shelves so they put those in "plain English".

Edit:

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/packaging/information#Date_Codes

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/packaging/information#Factory_Codes

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, BrooksW said:

Just a note on this: I was at the 55th release event in Cuba, and they handed out non-Premier banded 55th cigars there. I have no knowledge either way, but if all of the Premier-banded cigars and the ones for the release event were rolled and banded around the same time, I could absolutely see Habanos putting all of the cigars (i.e. cigars with both bands) in the same general place to store them until they were boxed/handed out at the event, then pulling from that stock to fill the Premier boxes. Then, one of the workers pulls some cigars from the wrong pile, and viola, two different banded cigars in one box.

Things are not going great in Cuba right now. Bottled water is so rare it is almost being used as a second form of currency. Do you (the general "you", not Cairo specifically) think a worker who can't get a bottle of water anywhere in the city is going to give a happy crap that the bands in one box out of the 300 he has to fill that day are correct?

Is the tap water there not safe to drink? And yes, I think a worker for Tabacuba should care whether he is doing his job correctly, or just quit and stay home. These are $300usd per cigar. Not a $150/box of Montecarlos. 

[Bijan]

10 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

Is the tap water there not safe to drink? And yes, I think a worker for Tabacuba should care whether he is doing his job correctly, or just quit and stay home. These are $300usd per cigar. Not a $150/box of Montecarlos. 

The workers likely get paid the same peanuts whether they handle Montecarlos or these cigars.

A tough ask to expect people getting paid single digit dollars a day to let their family starve in protest so that people lighting $500 bills on fire don't have to worry about mismatched bands.

[Cigar Surgeon]

9 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

Is the tap water there not safe to drink? And yes, I think a worker for Tabacuba should care whether he is doing his job correctly, or just quit and stay home. These are $300usd per cigar. Not a $150/box of Montecarlos. 

Lol you definitely do not want to be drinking tap water in Cuba. I don't even brush my teeth with tap water in Cuba.

[BrooksW]

2 hours ago, SCgarman said:

Is the tap water there not safe to drink?

I have been told by multiple people on multiple trips not to drink it, or even to brush my teeth with it.

2 hours ago, SCgarman said:

And yes, I think a worker for Tabacuba should care whether he is doing his job correctly, or just quit and stay home. These are $300usd per cigar. Not a $150/box of Montecarlos.

These workers—at least the two I asked about it—could not care less how much the cigars sell for and literally could not comprehend the price that is paid for them when I told them. All they care about is feeding their families. 

Furthermore, while I don't know this for certain (I did not ask for obvious reasons) I don't think that it is as simple for the common worker to "just quit and stay home" in Cuba.

[Bigkahuna]

At the end of the day it’s this precisely. How many of you would give a crap about the product you make if you were worried about water and food for your family. Think about that. Clean water is a luxury ?!?! I’m surprised anything at all is produced. I can promise you that Rolex and Ferrari employees aren’t worried if they will have enough food to feed their families tomorrow. If this isn’t a call for regime change then there never will be one.  Electricity and water are not luxuries. 

[El Presidente]

11 hours ago, Bigkahuna said:

At the end of the day it’s this precisely. How many of you would give a crap about the product you make if you were worried about water and food for your family. Think about that. Clean water is a luxury ?!?! I’m surprised anything at all is produced. I can promise you that Rolex and Ferrari employees aren’t worried if they will have enough food to feed their families tomorrow. If this isn’t a call for regime change then there never will be one.  Electricity and water are not luxuries. 

This is not a worker issue. They generally only go to work to hussle. We have detailed here for 17 years the insidious nature of the worker/state arrangement. 

This is a QC issue at Organisation and Distributor level. 

Items get made by multinationals in poor countries every day. Your Nikes don't turn up with two different size of runners in the same box. 

[Puros Y Vino]

Found this on a FB group.  A member emailed Phoenicia and received following response. (Apologies to OP if  they are on FOH.  I edited out personal info.)

Some "clarity" on box codes

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Puros Y Vino
Removed potentially controversial info.

[Bigkahuna]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

This is not a worker issue. They generally only go to work to hussle. We have detailed here for 17 years the insidious nature of the worker/state arrangement. 

This is a QC issue at Organisation and Distributor level. 

Items get made by multinationals in poor countries every day. Your Nikes don't turn up with two different size of runners in the same box. 

Fair enough. But Vietnam has a much higher standard of living over Cuba. In fact probably only Haiti is worse in the Western Hemisphere and maybe North Korea in the Eastern.  This isn’t a multinational running it. Rather it’s a bunch of Government lackeys that see it as a personal piggy bank. I’m appalled at the conditions that workers roll 100$+ cigars in. It’s disgusting and saddening.  I agree QC is non existent and will only get worse as the shortages grow larger. If this indeed ends up being QC at the distribution level then that’s a whole other matter to discuss. I’ll put a pot of coffee on …

[Fugu]

13 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

 

 

Hmm, interesting info that Phoenicia is giving here. Last time I checked, it was Tabacuba being in charge of box codes, not HSA applying them.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Puros Y Vino
Removed controversial Image I posted and any references to it.

[Tstew75]

7 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

Found this on a FB group.  A member emailed Phoenicia and received following response. (Apologies to OP if  they are on FOH.  I edited out personal info.)

Some "clarity" on box codes

The recipient of this is a good friend & a member here. The email was directly from xxxx at Phonecia.