Top 12 all time retail stinkers.....Number 1 : Habanos Estuche X Festival 2008

[El Presidente]

Top 12 all time retail stinkers

Good mate Ravi once told me that all cigars sell eventually and if you hold onto them long enough.....regardless of how tough they were to move initially......they will sell at much higher prices. How right he was!  

Still there are certain cigars that hung around for years in the humidor........a couple for a decade. They were the bane of my life.  Each morning I would walk in the humidor and see them.....year after year. You would put them up on sale and only hear "crickets chirping". 

My Dirty Dozen of the Cuban cigar retail world. 

If you can remember them.....give us your impression/memories of the daily cigar. 

Let me start today with Number 12 as we work towards number 1 

 

Number 12. 

Romeo y Julieta Piramide 

Releases 2001. Discontinued 2003. 

This goes down as the worst Cuban cigar ever released under  Habanos sa.  Construction was abysmal. Wrappers looked like binders. Flavour wise it tasted as if you had fallen into a  putrid fetid swamp. It was so bad the cigar only lasted 24 months before it was pulled. As a retailer at the time,  they couldn't be moved for love nor money. 

 

From CCW.......because all images appear to have been wiped for reasons of mental heatlh. 

 

 

 

Number 11 

Cuaba Tradicionales and Generosos

who slept with who to keep these going? 

I can't split them. 

With the deletion carnage that has decimated many a great cigar brand over the past 20 years, Cuaba remains largely untouched. 

Why oh why? Now you could make an argument for the Divinos, Distinguidos and Salomones as they do move albeit slowly. The Tradicionales and Generosos however hung around longer than the LCDH reception potplant.  Now the Tradicionales is technically deleted but we have seen March 22 boxes. Jesus wept you can't kill these things off with a stick. 

If cigars gave out sexual favours, then the Tradicionales and Exclusivos would have be the office tramps. But they don't and hence one can only assume that their continued survival (Tradicionales at least) is beacuse thay have some powerful friends somewhere deep in Tabacuba/HSA.........God knows  they have few if any friends outside of that enclave 

 

 

Number 10 

Vegueros........any

Most brands at least had a "heyday". Most brands except Vegueros 

 

It was a failure when launched in 1997 and it has ben a failure since the 2013 relaunch. OK, less of a retail failure....which would make it a high fiving success in the Havana boardroom. 

I have had (and enjoyed) plenty of original vintage Vegueros. There are plenty around becasue few people bought them...or at least bought them twice.  

There is a special type of mind that comes up with a blend profile that is largely herbacious with few endearing features. I have found them to age pretty well and some honey comes into the picture with a decade on them (original 1997 blends) but who wants to wait a decade? 

From the blend to the naff packaging, the entire brand is a complete cluster F.....a retailers nightmare 

It has HSA written oll over it. 

 

 

Number 9 

Partagas Serie D Number 6 

Great cigar. Dumb price point. Dumber packaging.  Sales flop. 

 

I think the Partagas Serie D Number 6 is one of the finest Partagas blends out there. Truly a stunning blend. 

Dumb and Dumber from marketing decided on a high price point and in a 20 box timber presentation. 20? Really? 

Come-on HSA, this is one cigar that deserves a 50 cab.....but 25 at least. Do that, tweak the price and you will see the D6 go from a sales dog to a winner. 

......and make it as a Double Robusto and you have a retail gem on your hand. 

 

 

 

 

 

Number 8    "Tie"  

Cohiba Panetela and Montecristo Joyita. 

 

Gram for gram, Cohiba Panetela is more expensive than cocaine..........without the demand. 

These are the cigar worlds version of "concept cars". Pretty to look at but the public isn't going to drive them. 

These toothpicks are simply expensive and far too often of  questionable construction. 

Now at their best they are super tasty. Superb!  However you had better have deep pockets and lungs that can suck a golf ball through a garden hose. 

Retail duds maximus.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Number 7

Hoyo De Monterrey Elegantes 

The only LCDH release that really failed to take off. 

 

I don't mind the Tacos format but the cigar needs to have character. 

The HDM Elegantes does have some fans but in the main the cigar simply confuses most CC lovers with a largely "wishy washy" performance.   

The greatest thing that has happened to this cigar was Covid and supply shortages 

 

 

Number 6

H. Upmann Magnum 48 LE 2009 

The longest LE sitter of all time. 

 

Now don't get this wrong, the Upmann Magnum 48 LE has a lot of fans.....today. 

However in terms of making those cash registers ring.....the Magnum 48 was a dog. They hung around for just over four years in big numbers. In terms of standard LE's, It shares that title with only one other that will feature as our Number "5". 

 

 

Number 5

Trinidad Short Robusto T  LE 2010

This release sat around for years. It was poorly conceived, expensive (for the time) and in 12's only. 

I always suspected this LE release was designed to piggyback on the very successful Trinidad Robusto T release.  The problem was that it was half the cigar the Robusto T was in almost every aspect but price 

This was a retail dog.

 

 

Number 4

Partagas Culebra 

Honestly.....how many people actually smoke these on a regular basis? 

Sure...one off buy. Great fun, decent smoke. However who has two or more boxes (9 coffins per box) in their humidor. 

Who has ever paid full price? 

Suprisingly they make/made these in good quantities. 

The best thing that happened to Culebra sales was Covid. The warhouses full of them have been emptied.

Does anyone here smoke them on a regular basis? 

 

Number 3

Sancho Panza Non Plus 

Yes, it has plenty of fans on FOH however FOH is not normal.....as if I had to tell you 

I have spoken to retailers from San Sebastian to Santiago Chile and you can't give this cigar away without a discount and a hefty one at that.

For retailers it is a shelf sitting, cash flow sucking, dust collecting machine.  It has always been thus. 

Mind you I would love to have 200 boxes today!

 

 

 

Number 2

Cohiba Seleccion Reserva 2003 

For over a decade you couldn't move them without a serious discount. 

Today they command big, BIG dollars 

They were always very good smoking cigars but absolute retail stinkers until as recently as 8 years ago. 

The ultimate cigar investment sleeper. 

 

Number 1

Habanos Estuche X Festival 2008 

This release was a replica of the special presentation box gifted to attendees at the 10th Anniversary of the Habanos Festivals.
It is a selection of the vitolas released by Habanos within the previous  ten years.

They hung around on shelves for over a decade. The slowest moving release of all time. 

 

[JohnS]

Coincidentally, I was researching this very release yesterday. You see, one can actually sample a current version of this cigar, but only if you acquire the Combinaciones Seleccion Piramides box of six cigars, which is a Multi-brand release popular as a gift and usually retailed at Duty Free Stores in Airports. 

El Pres and I were discussing these releases last weekend and honestly they were fairly mediocre when they came out in 2003. However, their re-branding in 2016 had been quite something else as I have been going through one of these boxes and thus far every piramides I've sampled has been sensational, yes...even the Romeo y Julieta Piramides.

The problem with the initial run of Romeo y Julieta Piramides was the timing. Quality control around 2000 was abysmal for Habanos S.A so this cigar never stood a chance. It was bad. In my research, I consulted my review copy of Alex Groom's upcoming reference work on Cuban cigars, 'El Habano Moderno' and apparently the Romeo y Julieta Anejados released around 2014 was purportedly an attempt by Habanos S.A to sell these off. That didn't work either. I especially enjoyed our dear recently departed hermano, Nino Munoz's take on the RyJ Anejados on his Flying Cigar blog a few years ago. According to him, it was like "smoking hot air!"  

This RyJ Piramides, from this Multi-brand release of Piramides cigars I have been going through, was very much 'old school' Romeo y Julieta. It contained next to no cocoa. It had an anise sweetness like Turkish delight, a cherry fruitiness and a herbal quality to it, like the grass you get in Cohiba but without those other Cohiba flavours. Imagine that type of blend! It was so finely-balanced that I'm convinced that if it was blended incorrectly it would have been an ordinary cigar. Alas no, it was a masterpiece example of how exemplary a Habanos cigar can be. (It's a) Pity we don't get to experience it more regularly!

[Blakes]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

Top 12 all time retail stinkers.........that I would love to have back today!

Good mate Ravi once told me that all cigars sell eventually and if you hold onto them long enough.....regardless of how tough they were to move initially......they will sell at much higher prices. How right he was!  

Still there are certain cigars that hung around for years in the humidor........a couple for a decade. They were the bane of my life.  Each morning I would walk in the humidor and see them.....year after year. You would put them up on sale and only hear "crickets chirping". 

My Dirty Dozen of the Cuban cigar retail world. 

If you can remember them.....give us your impression/memories of the daily cigar. 

Let me start today with Number 12 as we work towards number 1 

 

Number 12. 

Romeo y Julieta Piramide 

Releases 2001. Discontinued 2003. 

This goes down as the worst Cuban cigar ever released under  Habanos sa.  Construction was abysmal. Wrappers looked like binders. Flavour wise it tasted as if you had fallen into a  putrid fetid swamp. It was so bad the cigar only lasted 24 months before it was pulled. As a retailer at the time,  they couldn't be moved for love nor money. 

 

From CCW.......because all images appear to have been wiped for reasons of mental heatlh. 

 

 

Just missing the Anejados band. 🤫

[BrightonCorgi]

Not sure why I never bought a box of those; luck I guess. 

R&J in general beyond Cedros No.1 and Cazadores were about all that were reliable at that time.  I don't recall people saying stay away, but no one recommending the RJ Pyramid either.  I had plenty of good boxes between '01 and '03, but they were all bought and smoked in the same time frame.

[El Presidente]

UPDATED 

Number 11 

Cuaba Tradicionales and Generosos

who slept with who to keep these going? 

I can't split them. 

With the deletion carnage that has decimated many a great cigar brand over the past 20 years, Cuaba remains largely untouched. 

Why oh why? Now you could make an argument for the Divinos, Distinguidos and Salomones as they do move albeit slowly. The Tradicionales and Generosos however hung around longer than the LCDH reception potplant.  Now the Tradicionales is technically deleted but we have seen March 22 boxes. Jesus wept you can't kill these things off with a stick. 

If cigars gave out sexual favours, then the Tradicionales and Exclusivos would have be the office tramps. But they don't and hence one can only assume that their continued survival (Tradicionales at least) is beacuse thay have some powerful friends somewhere deep in Tabacuba/HSA.........God knows  they have few if any friends outside of that enclave 

 

[HawkI84]

I actually like the tradicionales...

[El Presidente]

24 minutes ago, HawkI84 said:

I actually like the tradicionales...

I wish you had 1000 like minded friends 😁

[BrightonCorgi]

The big guns are are what make Cuaba fun.

[benfica_77]

I'm gonna make a guess and say Monte Open series is #1 lolll

[MrBirdman]

4 hours ago, benfica_77 said:

I'm gonna make a guess and say Monte Open series is #1 lolll

From what I gather those actually move reasonably well, just not on FOH (though I do recall them selling out on 24:24 on the rare instances they’re posted.) 

[Digi]

21 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Number 11 

Cuaba Tradicionales and Generosos

who slept with who to keep these going? 

 

Make you wonder if these and the SP Non Plus are made from a leaf or a blend they have an excess of.

I'm a big of the RyJ Belicoso and hadn't done the mental math on the Seleccion boxes being a piramide.  Have two boxes hanging on the gift shelf - looks like I'll be getting a gift today 😀

[El Presidente]

Number 10 

Vegueros........any

Most brands at least had a "heyday". Most brands except Vegueros 

 

It was a failure when launched in 1997 and it has ben a failure since the 2013 relaunch. OK, less of a retail failure....which would make it a high fiving success in the Havana boardroom. 

I have had (and enjoyed) plenty of original vintage Vegueros. There are plenty around becasue few people bought them...or at least bought them twice.  

There is a special type of mind that comes up with a blend profile that is largely herbacious with few endearing features. I have found them to age pretty well and some honey comes into the picture with a decade on them (original 1997 blends) but who wants to wait a decade? 

From the blend to the naff packaging, the entire brand is a complete cluster F.....a retailers nightmare 

It has HSA written oll over it. 

 

[MossybackR]

#10 — so bad, it’s repeated for emphasis 😁

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

I have found them to age pretty well and some honey comes into the picture with a decade on them (original 1997 blends) but who wants to wait a decade?

This!

Never cared much for them until I got an aged Espy No. 1 as a freebie from a respected retailer. Needles to say I was a bit disappointed. Took me another year or two to set flame to it. And - bam - what a nice surprise! Stocked up with a few boxes of 1s and 2s before they were axed.

I see nothing of that in the new line. Not a “relaunch” for me, it’s a new line of cigars, a whole new brand that has plain nothing in common with its ancestor. At least not at the current state of affairs.

Such nice looking cigars, so little character!

[KCCubano]

The old Vegueros line needed LOTS of down time to be smokable for my palate. My fave was the Seoane Panatela. Have some Centrofinos from original release. Smoked a few so far and they do keep getting better with age. Still the ceiling is probably no more than mid 80s pts wise. 

[BrightonCorgi]

Vegueros is one cigar I cannot forget.  I had the No. 1 from the original release and can still taste the fresh cut lawn in my mind.  Could not get rid of that taste which seemed like forever...  Way too grassy tasting.  Such a shame as they're rolled really well.  Who at Habanos came up with that blend?

[99call]

14 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Way too grassy tasting.  Such a shame as they're rolled really well.  Who at Habanos came up with that blend?

I'm a new convert to the Tapados. Whilst I'm not saying they are amazing cigars,   Personally I think there is a lot of band/brand blindness going on with how people rate these cigars.  I would rate them pretty similarly to Fonseca, in terms of quality, with the No 1 obviously being a league ahead.     I think this new line of Vegueros has a place.  A fresh subtle,  early morning smoke with the paper.  I don't understand people giving them shit because they are not rich, or sweet etc.  It's a bit like someone bagging a BBF for being full bodied and robust.....err thats just it's nature.... thats what it is. 

To me, having the broadest spectrum of flavour profiles Cuba can offer is most advantageous to the smoker.  Whilst some may not enjoy points in that spectrum,  I don't think that makes them less valuable. 

If people judged some current Hoyo's as harshly as they do Vegueros, there would be a lot of boxes gathering dust on the shelves.  

 

[Puros Y Vino]

Never tried them myself, but they've become "go to's" for some friends due to the relatively low cost and their desire to avoid buying NC's during these lean, Habanos years.  With Cohiba, Trinidad and Montecristo pricing going skyward.  CC smokers are taking notice of the lower end offerings.  And there are some good ones in there. The Petite Quinteros are my new HUHC and they cost a lot less. 

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, 99call said:

I'm a new convert to the Tapados...

I'd like to try some of the new Veguero re-launch.  They look amazing like the old ones and I bet they've toned down the grassiness.

Fonseca No. 1 is one of my favorite production cigars.  I don't get the negative impressions of them today.  I can understand 15 years ago, but they are a top cigar and unique flavor profile at that.

[99call]

6 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

but they are a top cigar and unique flavor profile at that.

Yep, I love them, great cigar, and a perfect change of pace. 

And I guess that was what I was thinking about the Vegueros, yes they are an acquired taste, but thats more of a comment of the smokers individual preference, as opposed to a qualitative comment on the cigar/blend. 

I think PL Picadores suffer for the same reason. People smoke them thinking they are going to get a caramel laden Ex4, and in reality the blend is nothing like that.  It's a fairly green, sweet pea puree, tea like experience

[El Presidente]

Number 9

Partagas Serie D Number 6 

Great cigar. Dumb price point. Dumber packaging.  Sales flop. 

 

I think the Partagas Serie D Number 6 is one of the finest Partagas blends out there. Truly a stunning blend. 

Dumb and Dumber from marketing decided on a high price point and in a 20 box timber presentation. 20? Really? 

Come-on HSA, this is one cigar that deserves a 50 cab.....but 25 at least. Do that, tweak the price and you will see the D6 go from a sales dog to a winner. 

......and make it as a Double Robusto and you have a retail gem on your hand. 

 

[KCCubano]

Totally agree on everything Rob. Superb blending but price point and packaging are horrible. Yes put that blend in a double robusto 25 ct SLB! 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:14 PM, HawkI84 said:

I actually like the tradicionales...

Believe it or not I actually liked the Generosos. Smoked a ton around 1998-2000. 

3 hours ago, KCCubano said:

Yes put that blend in a double robusto 25 ct SLB! 

Would love the D6 blend in a D3 Gorditos or D2 Robustos No. 2. Have no idea why they haven't done a D3/D2/D1 yet. Long overdue. Would also love to see a P3 in Rodolfos or Piramides Extra. 

15 hours ago, 99call said:

I think PL Picadores suffer for the same reason. People smoke them thinking they are going to get a caramel laden Ex4, and in reality the blend is nothing like that.  It's a fairly green, sweet pea puree, tea like experience

100% agree. The Picadores is a very odd bird. No one could peg it as a PL if they didn't know. Tea, herbal, vegetal indeed. The Galanes is much more in line with the PC and MC than the Picadores. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I am a fan of the Partagas Serie cigars.  They've had their ups and downs a little over the decades.  They've been on the up for this last decade.  That being said, I never once even considered buying Partagas Serie D Number 6s.  Like they never even existed.

 

[KCCubano]

15 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I am a fan of the Partagas Serie cigars.  They've had their ups and downs a little over the decades.  They've been on the up for this last decade.  That being said, I never once even considered buying Partagas Serie D Number 6s.  Like they never even existed.

 

I ignored for longest time as well. Saw a box on sale pre covid and jumped on them. Great blend but unless I see another stellar deal it will be my last purchase of D6.