Cuba Cigar Price List 12/7/22

[MossybackR]

4 hours ago, Salomones said:

https://zigarren-community.de/attachment.php?aid=44775

All new Prices are published there.

 

There’s the haystack —Gee, thanks. 

[BettyHumpder]

as always, interesting to see the MSRP compared to the outrageous prices being charged almost everywhere, including "reputable" non-grey market vendors.

[Tstew75]

On 11/17/2022 at 8:22 PM, BettyHumpder said:

as always, interesting to see the MSRP compared to the outrageous prices being charged almost everywhere, including "reputable" non-grey market vendors.

It's called supply & demand

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

It's called supply & demand

Well, we'll find out! Monte Master at $16.80...wow. 

[helix]

Many affordable great NC's if u can give it a chance.........................................Nudies for example,a commendable endeaver for certain. Try an Arturo Fuente best seller, rocks my world as well as my favorite Cuban an MC#2. Just saying...................

[Tstew75]

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Well, we'll find out! Monte Master at $16.80...wow. 

Those cigars shouldn't be smoked anyways, so....

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, helix said:

Many affordable great NC's if u can give it a chance...

NCs have been slowly gaining a strong foothold worldwide for over a decade. As discussed in another thread I think NCs have some legitimate marketing issues but it's nothing that can't be improved upon. Cuba thinks that because they have a monopoly on Cuban tobacco they also have a monopoly on cigars and they most certainly do not. They risk losing market share permanently. 

No one's going to pay that kind of money for run of the mill regular production cigars like RyJ Ex 4 or BRC. There are NC cigars on that level for half the price. When prices were somewhat comparable of course the choice would be CC. Now it's hard to justify sticking with CCs for most budget-minded smokers. 

This whole thing will come crashing down if production rises at all, and at 40% production right now I don't see how it won't. 

[BettyHumpder]

On 11/19/2022 at 11:56 AM, Tstew75 said:

It's called supply & demand

or we can just be honest with ourselves and call it what it is: price gouging.

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, BettyHumpder said:

or we can just be honest with ourselves and call it what it is: price gouging.

At current production levels I would have to disagree. There is not enough supply and therefore prices rise. The Chinese are still hoovering up pretty much all Cohiba available. Good luck finding any DCs. JLSE and LGC Glorias are flying off the shelves at $40 each. 

If people are buying at those prices the prices aren't too high. Prices are only too high when stock starts to pile up and that's not happening yet with the exception of maybe Trini which I think they did make a serious pricing mistake with. However they can't stay at 40% production forever. And there's also no way HSA revenue won't be down substantially although now with the Chinese involved they'll probably never admit it. 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

. However they can't stay at 40% production forever. 

They will be there until  late 2024/ 2025 at this point. 

I am not sure what is going to change to move the needle, outside of a thawing in the US relationship. 

[BettyHumpder]

16 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

At current production levels I would have to disagree. There is not enough supply and therefore prices rise. The Chinese are still hoovering up pretty much all Cohiba available. Good luck finding any DCs. JLSE and LGC Glorias are flying off the shelves at $40 each. 

If people are buying at those prices the prices aren't too high. Prices are only too high when stock starts to pile up and that's not happening yet with the exception of maybe Trini which I think they did make a serious pricing mistake with. However they can't stay at 40% production forever. And there's also no way HSA revenue won't be down substantially although now with the Chinese involved they'll probably never admit it. 

i’m not insensitive to the idea that production levels are low and scarcity drives prices higher. that being said, without listing vendors, there are some that have non-“luxury” torpedos/piramides at $25-$30ea, robustos at $20-$25, and so on and so on. i would exclude places like canada or other countries which obviously have incredibly high taxes (just like i wouldn’t use NYC as a benchmark for NC prices in the US).

yet i also see plenty of legitimate vendors, like LCDH or habanos specialists throughout the eurozone, that are still charging suggested MSRP and even offering $1-$2 discount per stick with a box purchase. they have less stock than normal but they do get consistent shipments. they’re smaller stores in regional cities.

so, what does this tell me? some shops and online vendors have chosen to jack up their prices. local labor laws, taxes, mortgage/rent, tobacco licensing all play a factor, sure, but i am convinced there are plenty of vendors just taking advantage of the climate.

honestly, something no one has been talking about is that maybe there are too many shops. everyone is fighting for the same pie, so the slices get smaller and smaller. i don’t know how some of these grey market sites stay afloat that haven’t had meaningful stock in months. do they crash and burn? what’s propping them up?

the best examples being a few vendors that doubled their prices overnight on stock they already had when the price increases were announced last year and *hadn’t even taken affect yet.* that’s pure greed. and it should be called out as such. 

i guess i’ll end with this. i fully understand that tobacco businesses are struggling because of the supply and have a bottom line to manage. every business has to make that calculus on their own. i just get frustrated when people fall back on “well that’s just capitalism. that’s supply and demand.” it’s cheap, oversimple, and, frankly, annoying.

 

rant over!! LOL

[vladdraq]

17 minutes ago, BettyHumpder said:

i’m not insensitive to the idea that production levels are low and scarcity drives prices higher. that being said, without listing vendors, there are some that have torpedos/piramides at $25-$30ea, robustos at $20-$25, and so on and so on. 

Not sure i fully understand what you mean by that. If you're talking about Cohibas they are most likely fakes. 

 

[BettyHumpder]

24 minutes ago, vladdraq said:

Not sure i fully understand what you mean by that. If you're talking about Cohibas they are most likely fakes. 

 

i mean vendors charging $25-$30 for monte 2, party E2, etc. and $20-$25 for PSD4, RASS, Regios, Choix Supreme, etc

hell, QD50 are still 10.50 MSRP! it’s outrageous.

ive edited it to reflect i’m talking regular production, not the new “luxury” cohiba and trinidad.

[Cairo]

1 hour ago, BettyHumpder said:

that’s pure greed. and it should be called out as such. 

I am an old timer who lived through the Jimmy Carter inflation years.  There were similar claims of "price gouging" and "greed".

What we later learned was that many of these "price gouging" businesses were on the way out of business and were just trying to survive.    It is a move of total desperation (last resort) to jack up prices and alienate your existing customer base.

If the scarcity remains this way for the next year or so I would not be surprised if some of the big name gray market dealers closed their doors.

[El Presidente]

2 hours ago, BettyHumpder said:

 

yet i also see plenty of legitimate vendors, like LCDH or habanos specialists throughout the eurozone, that are still charging suggested MSRP and even offering $1-$2 discount per stick with a box purchase. they have less stock than normal but they do get consistent shipments. they’re smaller stores in regional cities.

 

Everyone (official retailers) are being kept an eye on. Step too far out of pricing alignment and you will likely receive a tap on the shoulder. 

2 hours ago, BettyHumpder said:

the best examples being a few vendors that doubled their prices overnight on stock they already had when the price increases were announced last year and *hadn’t even taken affect yet.* that’s pure greed. and it should be called out as such. 

So what does a retailer do when they are told that their next order of Cohiba/Trinidad is 75% higher?. the rest 15% some 30% Next month...no time to plan. 

You have to cashflow the forward purchases. 

We took a different decision than most but I don't walk in their shoes.  Pure greed or pure need? Maybe a mix but you can't tar them all. 

 

[Monterey]

On 10/29/2022 at 10:09 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

I didn't even look. Too scared. You're right, it's not on the list. Don't know why. 

970 for a box of La Trova as it turns out.

[BettyHumpder]

5 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Everyone (official retailers) are being kept an eye on. Step too far out of pricing alignment and you will likely receive a tap on the shoulder. 

So what does a retailer do when they are told that their next order of Cohiba/Trinidad is 75% higher?. the rest 15% some 30% Next month...no time to plan. 

You have to cashflow the forward purchases. 

We took a different decision than most but I don't walk in their shoes.  Pure greed or pure need? Maybe a mix but you can't tar them all. 

 

right, and i felt like it was the grey market vendors that did the ol’ switcheroo with the pricing as soon as news started floating around here, reddit, and other forums. the legitimate, certified, or whichever term you like used some type of phased in approach to the new pricing and were at least transparent about it. it was quite obvious who was doing what. maybe i’ve tarred a few vendors who got caught in a bad way with cash flow but i do suspect there are always vultures circling in every market. and those are the ones i hold in disregard.

again, every business has its own challenges and pressure—or outright restriction—from the local regulators. i recognize that, in addition to risking your own skin by running the business in the first place. 

and i’m glad (?) big brother is watching to see who’s being naughty and nice with their pricing.

 

6 hours ago, Cairo said:

I am an old timer who lived through the Jimmy Carter inflation years.  There were similar claims of "price gouging" and "greed".

What we later learned was that many of these "price gouging" businesses were on the way out of business and were just trying to survive.    It is a move of total desperation (last resort) to jack up prices and alienate your existing customer base.

If the scarcity remains this way for the next year or so I would not be surprised if some of the big name gray market dealers closed their doors.

this is a good analysis and i agree—grey market vendors that fed well on overstock for years are fighting for scraps. there are so many with absolutely nothing in stock for months now.

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, BettyHumpder said:

yet i also see plenty of legitimate vendors, like LCDH or habanos specialists throughout the eurozone, that are still charging suggested MSRP

What is MSRP? I don't think that concept applies to CCs. Sure, there are some countries like Italy and Germany that are prohibited by law from selling above a certain margin but I'm sure they find a way around that in many cases. And Italy can't export. 

Right now I'm not aware of any vendors with lower prices than Rob particularly for Cohiba & Trini. $25 for Monte 2 and $20 for PSD4 is a great price right now. With only one exception who doesn't accept new customers if you're seeing lower prices I would question the authenticity. 

Sure, I see prices for certain things way out of whack at certain vendors I've used for 20 years. One vendor I bought a box of Connie 1 from for $350 in June also has RASCC at $420 and HU Regalias for $350. Go figure. Here's how we get them to lower prices: don't buy them. 

The bottom line is anything within 10% of Rob's prices is a fair deal and anything more than 10% less is probably fake. 

5 hours ago, Monterey said:

970 for a box of La Trova as it turns out.

I remember way back in the olden times of February when Siglo VI 25s were that much. 

[BettyHumpder]

7 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

What is MSRP? I don't think that concept applies to CCs. Sure, there are some countries like Italy and Germany that are prohibited by law from selling above a certain margin but I'm sure they find a way around that in many cases. And Italy can't export. 

Right now I'm not aware of any vendors with lower prices than Rob particularly for Cohiba & Trini. $25 for Monte 2 and $20 for PSD4 is a great price right now. With only one exception who doesn't accept new customers if you're seeing lower prices I would question the authenticity. 

Sure, I see prices for certain things way out of whack at certain vendors I've used for 20 years. One vendor I bought a box of Connie 1 from for $350 in June also has RASCC at $420 and HU Regalias for $350. Go figure. Here's how we get them to lower prices: don't buy them. 

The bottom line is anything within 10% of Rob's prices is a fair deal and anything more than 10% less is probably fake. 

I remember way back in the olden times of February when Siglo VI 25s were that much. 

oh without a doubt prices are pretty uniform on cohiba and trinidad. couldn’t agree with you there more. 

i know of the “no new clients” vendor you speak of and agree they’re an outlier. but there are vendors in europe that have much lower prices and are most certainly not selling fakes. i use several of them. most of it has to do with taxes and that they are working with an american client as opposed to canada or another european country.

the advantage, to me, for foh has and always will be the transparent grading and pricing accordingly. i enjoy knowing i’m getting highest quality if i choose to splurge for it. 

at the end of the day we all want a time machine. we’re frustrated that something we love is getting not only more difficult to acquire, but too expensive to buy when it is available. i do follow your advice and just not buy the stuff. sadly, people with deeper pockets than me can continue to snatch things up, which is their right, but it saddens me because all habanos sees is a sale and further encouragement.

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, BettyHumpder said:

but there are vendors in europe that have much lower prices and are most certainly not selling fakes. i use several of them. most of it has to do with taxes and that they are working with an american client as opposed to canada or another european country.

If we're talking about local B & Ms in rural Europe I suppose you may be able to get something less than 10% of, say, Rob's prices. But they would be catering to a local customer with different demand dynamics. Don't forget online retailers have packaging and shipping expenses--B & Ms do not. I'm not aware of anywhere in the Eurozone with taxes that allow online sales to beat Rob by more than 10%. 

On the other hand if you have in fact found a vendor somewhere deep in Bavaria or Lozere that's doing this I would keep that to yourself as if the word got out whatever you buy from them would be gone in 15 minutes. 

[Lamboinee]

On 10/28/2022 at 3:23 AM, dangolf18 said:

Trinidad and Cohiba

I bought some media Luna's before the unfortunatness. I also recently bought a three pack each of Coh rob and vigias. I've never had them so I justified the expenditure. After trying one of the vigias.... It wasn't worth it.

On 11/22/2022 at 11:29 AM, vladdraq said:

roduction levels are low and scarcity drives prices higher.

I readily accept that there are supply chain issues. However, I think its often more of a cop-out. It certainly has the potential to be abused as reasoning or justification for 1980's era new car dealer crazy high mark up. It's just the new age luxury product marketing bs. Like "allocated" bourbon.   It's allocated to as much as they can sell me while maintaining margins and market share.

Maybe a triple double embargo would help?

On 10/28/2022 at 3:23 AM, dangolf18 said:

Trinidad and Cohiba

I bought some media Luna's before the unfortunatness. I also recently bought a three pack each of Coh rob and vigias. I've never had them so I justified the expenditure. After trying one of the vigias.... It wasn't worth it. 

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, Lamboinee said:

I readily accept that there are supply chain issues. However, I think its often more of a cop-out. It certainly has the potential to be abused as reasoning or justification for 1980's era new car dealer crazy high mark up. It's just the new age luxury product marketing bs...

Prices did need to go up but I think what's leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth is the doubling and tripling of prices for items that were readily available until Feb. Do I think it was good PR? No. And raising things like Panetelas and Exquisitos to the same proportion also is totally unjustified and also makes it appear to be a money grab or profiteering or whatever you want to call it. 

The attempt to artificially raise Trini up to the status of Cohiba is also very poor marketing and again smacks of a money grab. 

I had less of a problem with Cohiba and Trini but now they are pushing regular production even higher. The hard truth is that regular production CCs have never been considered luxury items outside of the US even in the days when the market was 95% CCs. Of course premium cigars themselves are certainly luxury items but within cigars CCs were just cigars. The idea that they really think SLR Regios and Ex 4 are considered luxury items by anyone is delusional. And there's a world of NCs scratching and clawing at your market share. 

With production at 40% it's all they can do so I totally understand this pricing scheme. But make no mistake HSA is losing revenue whether they admit it or not and will continue to lose revenue until production increases. 

[Lamboinee]

30 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Prices did need to go up but I think what's leaving a

Fair. Agreed. 

Sometimes I think they are playing a bit off the ol "yankee gas bag cigar smoker" vs. "sophisticated non us smoker" stereotypes.  What evidence do I have of this? Anecdotal and possibly speculative .. but I do feel like there is a greater need in some circles for people to justify their cc v. Nc preferences. Or maybe I'm hyper sensitive because they keep pointing out that some of ccs burn like mossy fungi. 

You said it, or alluded to it, and I'll reiterate the sentiment.... The biggest issue is not the price increase imo (yes some are absurd but there's lots to smoke in the sub $40 range I feel).... However, with such glaring consistency issues, it does make  mad at the price to value ratio. Isn't there even one person montoring this awesome product in Cuba! And Now, if you will excuse me, I have some 50/50 trash/greatness to light on fire. We should unite fronts and issue a self emposed inter consumer embargo to add to the already in existence us embargo.  Speak with the pocket book. Perfect plan. If y'all will do that, then america will unilaterally cut back on greenhouse gas emissions in actual fair proportion. Lolololol. 

 

[BlueRidgeFly]

On 11/25/2022 at 9:28 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

The hard truth is that regular production CCs have never been considered luxury items outside of the US even in the days when the market was 95% CCs. Of course premium cigars themselves are certainly luxury items but within cigars CCs were just cigars. The idea that they really think SLR Regios and Ex 4 are considered luxury items by anyone is delusional. And there's a world of NCs scratching and clawing at your market share. 

Agreed. I smoke mostly the "workhorse" CCs--PL, smaller Montes, Partagas, RA, Bolivars, etc. A really good one is hard to beat. But if I'm purely practical... the small group of NCs that I really like are equal or better than these CCs ~80% of the time. Chasing the ~20% of CCs that are great when they were the same price and often LESS was an easy decision. But as prices double or more, it's not making sense. 

[NSXCIGAR]

On 11/25/2022 at 6:58 PM, Lamboinee said:

However, with such glaring consistency issues, it does make  mad at the price to value ratio. Isn't there even one person montoring this awesome product in Cuba!

This is certainly a pervasive issue that Cuba has and clearly doesn't help their push for much higher prices. But NCs have their issues as well. While there is undoubtedly better construction there has always been serious year-to-year blend consistency issues. So while you may get a bad box or two of CCs your favorite NC might have a year or two of all boxes being bad. 

The issue at this point is that we know something like 10-20% of all CCs sold are Monte 4 and PSD4 alone. These are blue collar workhorse cigars. To assume doubling their price won't affect demand is insane. There are plenty of NC alternatives to those cigars at less than half the price. 

This may give a renewed jolt to NC producers. NC quality has been improving pretty linearly for 30 years. Just look at Rob's Nudies. I've had a few and they are the most enjoyable NCs I've ever had and he's only been in the game for a few years. That's what can be done with NCs with the right people, passion and care. Imagine the further improvements that 10 more years will bring. Will the best NC ever be better than the best CC? Unlikely. But only the top 5% of CC smokers are smoking those cigars.