Suspect box of Maduro genios high level fake ?

[Aznyse1]

Hi All , I’m a new member and would like to introduce myself  .I’m a 37 year old living in NYC  have only recently started smoking cigars over last 2 years . I am a-bit of an extremest so I have gone abit deep into the collection aspect over the last year or so and have a lot to learn ,it’s been an amazing journey thus far and I feel like I have just landed at the right place .

 

this forum is great  and has been a wealth of fantastic information over the last few days. I really love the community aspect of it . I’m excited  to join and look forward to becoming a contributing member of community .

to the topic at hand 

I recently purchased a few boxes while traveling .

at the time of purchase I didn’t know to look further than box numbers matching the habanos website on sealed boxes .

I have since been red pillled and have learned so much more ,(please see the attached  photos )

they smell Cuban ,their triple capped although wrappers look abit rough ,they have hidden codes on band under uv light like they should, the tax stamps seem correct, box codes seem correct ,micro print on tax stamps seem correct ,placement of stamps seem correct
UV marks on tax stamp seems correct 

codes match on habanos website (did I say that already ) 

 

 

,first thing that tipped me off when I opened was the color variance between wrappers I really don’t know at this point 

 

I paid a decent amount for them it wasn’t to good to be true .

 

 

I have also purchased a box of BHK 52 ,56 and cosecha 14 with similar level of high detail, if counterfeit I  will create separate posts for those  to avoid confusion in all the photos 

Ty in advance for any insight 

 

[Cairo]

The Taino heads are really off center--both on the box seal (the worst) and individual cigars.    That would have scared me off if I were buying on site.

 

[Aznyse1]

Unfortunately I didn’t get to see the contents of the box when I purchased it ,it was sealed and only knew as far as checking the box codes on habanos website at the time .

please explain by what you mean as off center on box as i would like to learn .is it possibly it’s the angle of photo as the head seems to be directly in center of the box in person  is there a point of reference on where it’s location should be ? 

 

[Cairo]

Sure--the gold Taino head should be perfectly centered on the white background.

Like this:

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/brand/cohiba

[Aznyse1]

Wow that’s a stark and now after seeing somewhat obvious contrast ,thanks !

 

It really amazes me the level of detail these counterfeits do have on tax stamp ,uv light micro printed matching codes etc .. than are off on something obvious like that 

[Cairo]

Do you want to tell us more of the background--perhaps what city/country you were visiting when you purchased these (without actually naming the vendor--house rules) ?

The fakes are getting better and better, and we all can learn from each other what is happening out there.

[Aznyse1]

Sure ,was purchased on holiday in  Panama City ,Panama along with 3 other boxes of now confirmed very high level counterfeits ( BHK 52 ,56 and cosecha reserva 2014 )they were all priced within what seemed reasonable range at about a 25% discount off of what online venders  we’re selling for at the time .

it was at a cigar shop located in a prestigious hotel that had good reviews as selling authentic CC .

for the causal buyer that checks box codes on habanos On a sealed outer box it will be very hard to tell it’s fake .

they did get a lot of things right and seemingly smells Cuban and  decently constructed with triple caps 
the detail on outer tax stamp really blows my mind .With the uv code on band as well they didn’t miss a lot .

They have same level of detail and correct sizing and coloration on the other aforementioned boxes .

I will be filing a charge back and will be happy to deconstruct a couple after that clears .

 

 

 

 

 

[Cairo]

Thanks for the info.

If you search the web a bit you will see that Panama has long had a reputation as one of the primary sources for fake Cubans.    

[Nevrknow]

1 hour ago, Aznyse1 said:

It really amazes me the level of detail these counterfeits do have on tax stamp ,uv light micro printed matching codes etc .. than are off on something obvious like that 

Known fact that a lot of counterfeiters will make a small, obvious mistake/ signature if you will ( that most people won’t catch ) to ensure they themselves do not get scammed or a heads up to their partners in crime. Also kind of a pride thing. “ That’s MY work”. 
 

Outside of this place? I know 5 people that would catch that. All taught by me from what I learned from this great forum. 
 

 

[ATGroom]

Interesting box.

One giveaway is the seal number.

The numbers are sequential starting at 0 in 2010. From the first two digits you can approximately date the box.

A box that begins with 000010 like this one would be from approximately mid-2011. A box with the factory date DIC 2019 should have a seal number beginning something like 000047.

So in order to have it match in the HSA website, it looks at though the fakers simply copied the serial number from an old legitimate box.

Very good fake in general that would fool many buyers.

[MC4]

10 hours ago, ATGroom said:

Interesting box.

One giveaway is the seal number.

The numbers are sequential starting at 0 in 2010. From the first two digits you can approximately date the box.

A box that begins with 000010 like this one would be from approximately mid-2011. A box with the factory date DIC 2019 should have a seal number beginning something like 000047.

So in order to have it match in the HSA website, it looks at though the fakers simply copied the serial number from an old legitimate box.

Very good fake in general that would fool many buyers.

Do you know or have the information for range of serial numbers per year?  

[ATGroom]

1 hour ago, MC4 said:

Do you know or have the information for range of serial numbers per year?  

00001 started around mid-2011
00002 late 2013
00003 early 2016
00004 late 2017
00005 in late 2020
 

Boxes can sit around in Havana prior to sealing for a number of reasons, so seeing an old box with a new number isn't much of a red flag, ie, there was a batch of 2010 Monte Open Juniors doing the rounds last year with 00005 seals. Someone must have discovered a cache in the warehouse.

There is no legitimate way, however, that a box with a recent date stamp can get a seal with a number from 10 years ago. Dealbreaker for fakes.

[Wailbait]

Nope.  EML was a factory code used from 2013-2015.  
 

font of stamp is incorrect.  

[NSXCIGAR]

On 7/5/2022 at 9:05 AM, Wailbait said:

Nope.  EML was a factory code used from 2013-2015.  
 

font of stamp is incorrect.  

^^ This

Should have been the first tip off. EML was La Corona factory around 2014 and, more importantly, the font is incorrect. 100% genuine fugazi box. 

I would give this box a 5/10. Packaging and box are above average. Seals and stickers pretty good. Major problems with wrapper color variation, cigar construction, bands. Big time fail with the code. 

I see boxes like this all the time in Mexico. This is pretty much what I would call the entry level high-end fake. 

Cohiba Maduros are a very commonly faked cigar in this segment. The thicker, darker maduro wrappers are easier to fake. I've seen boxes a touch better than this one with cigars that did match color and wrappers that were dead on for Cohiba Maduro. If you were only looking at the cigars themselves you would never think they were fake. Fortunately there are almost always other signs like the code. 

[Mario13]

I think I just got one of those fake Cohiba Maduro boxes. Left one is one I purchased from a LCDH and the other from a “collector”.

[free85]

On 9/21/2022 at 4:26 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

^^ This

Should have been the first tip off. EML was La Corona factory around 2014 and, more importantly, the font is incorrect. 100% genuine fugazi box. 

I would give this box a 5/10. Packaging and box are above average. Seals and stickers pretty good. Major problems with wrapper color variation, cigar construction, bands. Big time fail with the code. 

I see boxes like this all the time in Mexico. This is pretty much what I would call the entry level high-end fake. 

Cohiba Maduros are a very commonly faked cigar in this segment. The thicker, darker maduro wrappers are easier to fake. I've seen boxes a touch better than this one with cigars that did match color and wrappers that were dead on for Cohiba Maduro. If you were only looking at the cigars themselves you would never think they were fake. Fortunately there are almost always other signs like the code. 

My eye still can't pick up things like the font. I have to go off of "sensible" things like the serial and code matching chronologically etc. There are SO many people out there who don't even know about the basics like the microprinted serial. 

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, free85 said:

My eye still can't pick up things like the font. I have to go off of "sensible" things like the serial and code matching chronologically etc. There are SO many people out there who don't even know about the basics like the microprinted serial. 

We're way beyond that these days. The quality of fakes being produced now is likely near flawless. Source/provenance is the only indicator of authenticity and that doesn't mean the average LCDH. 

[free85]

10 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

We're way beyond that these days. The quality of fakes being produced now is likely near flawless. Source/provenance is the only indicator of authenticity and that doesn't mean the average LCDH. 

"We" being the folks around here, perhaps. But I can confidently say there are people out there who are not beyond that. I know people who have boxes in their houses right now with bogues serials/repeated microprinting, etc.

I buy here exclusively, so I'm not worried personally. 

[gormag38]

On 3/19/2024 at 10:15 AM, Mario13 said:

I think I just got one of those fake Cohiba Maduro boxes. Left one is one I purchased from a LCDH and the other from a “collector”

I'm confused on this one. While there are certainly similarities/differences I'm not too worried about either of those sticks. (If anything the band looks worse on the one you sourced from LCDH.)

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