Is Elon Musk correct? Remote Work

[Duxnutz]

7 hours ago, Markspring1978 said:

 I’m so glad that people like Elon speak common sense. 

Regardless of your team’s KPIs, the US economy is headed for a nasty crash. This due in part to an entitled generation of self absorbed narcissists who think the world revolves around their pleasure and entertainment. 

Remote work may be efficient for some, but for many of the inexperienced and immature workforce, it is just a way to sleep in, binge Netflix, and still collect a paycheck. 

I’d like to think there is a time coming when these foolish experiments will have run their course. 
 

Bang on! 
 

I don’t have a dog in this fight either but have heard people saying they won’t go back to work? Hmmkay. When all the money in the economy dries up and people want to eat they’ll be happy to work wherever they’re told to. 
 

 

[Paladin865]

I would hate to work from home. I didn't like to do homework when I was in school. I would do my home work in study hall. Now for those who have a long commute each way every day. That would be a feasible option, especially with the high price of gas and road construction that takes forever. As long as daily objectives are laid out clearly and the focus is there, work from home would be a benefit for some.

[jakebarnes]

10 hours ago, Markspring1978 said:

 I’m so glad that people like Elon speak common sense. 

Regardless of your team’s KPIs, the US economy is headed for a nasty crash. This due in part to an entitled generation of self absorbed narcissists who think the world revolves around their pleasure and entertainment. 

 

Edit: I am not gonna get started in this. I should have just let this go. That said, these sorts of tropes are stale and annoying. 

I still stand on the position that Musk is one of the greatest snake oil salesmen of this moment. 

[ElJavi76]

I work for a major utility company in the north east… I’ve been remote since 3/20. For over 2 years those of us who could be remote have been. Now they’re starting to ask us to return 1 day a week and in a month they want us back 3 days a week. The workforce is split between union and management employees. Obviously the union folks are well represented by their lawyers, as they should be… they pay dues. Management folks like myself don’t have that luxury. I will point out that field activity folks that work on cherry pickers and even below ground never had the luxury of working from home, so that’s not lost on me. However, we know the truth of getting back into the office is all about pressure from the local govt. Revenue from buses and trains is way down, as well as tax revenue from all the eateries that don’t have the foot traffic they’re accustomed to having. What is up is crime, shootings, muggings, and even rape in the same transportation system they want “some” of us to travel. I say some because the union folks have negotiated that as long as their performance doesn’t suffer they can continue working from home. 
 

I get it… not everyone can wfh. You can’t make cars from home. You can’t fix electrical lines from home. However, I’m in technology and this farce about water cooler talk/gossip is a joke. I’ve been an individual contributor for years now. I don’t consult with anyone else on the team to fix this or brainstorm to figure out how best to code a solution. I would think that water cooler talk is probably the least productive time anyone could spend in an office. Elon is Elon. He’s become slightly politically polarizing but he’s as entitled to his opinion as anyone else. I think he’s a brilliant man with world changing ideas. If he wants to run his company that way… have at it brother, that’s why you own it. One size doesn’t fit all tho. Just saying!

[Chibearsv]

10 hours ago, Markspring1978 said:

This due in part to an entitled generation of self absorbed narcissists who think the world revolves around their pleasure and entertainment. 

I'm not sure how this applies to the topic at all except that it must be nagging on you somehow.  I've read similar comments in several threads, so it must be some sort of a thing which confuses me.

If you're referring to us boomers; I, for one, have had a job of one kind or another since I was 12 years old.  I've been paying taxes and FICA for nearly 50 years.  I raised 2 kids as a single parent and they are now both completely non-dependent on me and have no student debts.  I carry no debt and expect nothing from anyone or any agency to support me or my family - ever.  I don't think the world revolves around me whatsoever, but I'm going to enjoy what I've earned.  Do younger people really believe that my generation never worked or earned or struggled?  Give it a rest.

 

[RichG]

33 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

I'm not sure how this applies to the topic at all except that it must be nagging on you somehow.  I've read similar comments in several threads, so it must be some sort of a thing which confuses me.

If you're referring to us boomers; I, for one, have had a job of one kind or another since I was 12 years old.  I've been paying taxes and FICA for nearly 50 years.  I raised 2 kids as a single parent and they are now both completely non-dependent on me and have no student debts.  I carry no debt and expect nothing from anyone or any agency to support me or my family - ever.  I don't think the world revolves around me whatsoever, but I'm going to enjoy what I've earned.  Do younger people really believe that my generation never worked or earned or struggled?  Give it a rest.

 

Now I’m getting really confused, I thought he was referring to the younger generation of today?

[Cairo]

2 hours ago, Paladin865 said:

As long as daily objectives are laid out clearly

This is a myth--but this is a new world with strange new rules.

Work at home works best when output is easily measured--but daily is not necessary at all--where I worked the tasks often took several weeks to complete.

When they were complete senior management would review the "output" and evaluate it.   (That included an oral presentation with interrogation by teleconference--that included subject matter experts peppering the presenter with questions.)

It was very easy to determine who was "with the program" and who was not.

[Corylax18]

24 minutes ago, RichG said:

Now I’m getting really confused, I thought he was referring to the younger generation of today?

Exactly. It's all a bit embaressing at this point. Every generation has said it about every generation younger than them. It's particularly odd to me when some one from the most entitled generation in the history of the species says it, but it's much easier to blame others then look within. 

[RichG]

I’m 40 so I feel kind of in the middle of these generational disputes. Whenever I find myself getting grumpy about the youth, I try to remember this quote for some perspective.

“You know, throughout history,I bet every old man probably said the same thing.And old men die, and the world keeps spinning.”

Marty Hart - True Detective 

(*For context it is amid a conversation where Marty’s father in law is talking about how awful todays youth are, and how the world is going to hell.)

[Corylax18]

13 minutes ago, RichG said:

I’m 40 so I feel kind of in the middle of these generational disputes. Whenever I find myself getting grumpy about the youth, I try to remember this quote for some perspective.

“You know, throughout history,I bet every old man probably said the same thing.And old men die, and the world keeps spinning.”

Marty Hart - True Detective 

(*For context it is amid a conversation where Marty’s father in law is talking about how awful todays youth are, and how the world is going to hell.)

Well said. I'm 35, so a millennial, technically. But I'm of a different generation than my brother that's 6 years younger than me. He grew up with  cell phones, computers, etc., I didn't even have a computer until I was 13 and it was just for school work until I was about 15. 

I don't feel like I really fit I to any of the generally accepted generational groups. Maybe Gen x if I had to pick one, definitely not millennial though. 

[RichG]

25 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Well said. I'm 35, so a millennial, technically. But I'm of a different generation than my brother that's 6 years younger than me. He grew up with  cell phones, computers, etc., I didn't even have a computer until I was 13 and it was just for school work until I was about 15. 

I don't feel like I really fit I to any of the generally accepted generational groups. Maybe Gen x if I had to pick one, definitely not millennial though. 

Cory, while at 35 I believe you are too young for most technical definitions of the age range I have seen, your experience certainly sounds like that of a Xennial…the micro lost generation. I completely feel your lack of relating to either adjacent generation. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xennials

[BlueRidgeFly]

I've been working from home 100% for seven years now and am way more productive than I was at the office in the 20+ years before that. But I'm in the software industry, and this setup works great for that. For other businesses, it could be just as easy, or harder, or impossible. Really depends.

Many managers and employers have a problem with the idea of remote work in general. If they can't see someone on-site, they wonder what's going on. A lot of organizations also have no good way to measure productivity, and seeing someone in a chair helps them feel they're "managing" their people. That can be stupid.

[Chibearsv]

1 hour ago, RichG said:

Now I’m getting really confused, I thought he was referring to the younger generation of today?

I'm getting old, I may have mis-construed. 

I had a weekend of hearing from guys I golf with and some of my neighbors conversing with me about my generation being entitled and rich and ruining the world.  It was under my skin and if @Markspring1978 was not referring to us boomers, I humbly apologize for my response.

[Corylax18]

16 minutes ago, RichG said:

Cory, while at 35 I believe you are too young for most technical definitions of the age range I have seen, your experience certainly sounds like that of a Xennial…the micro lost generation. I completely feel your lack of relating to either adjacent generation. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xennials

Fascinating. I had never heard of this before, but it fits me perfectly. I vividly remember playing Oregon Trail on an old Apple computer in elementary school! Haha. I'm a couple years younger than even the most generous definition, but all the other descriptors match perfectly. I have 3 cousins in that exact age range though and we all get along extremely well. It makes more sense now. 

[bmac]

[ElJavi76]

The other angle here about coming back to the office is that regular folks are being asked to come back in while the upper crust still sits at home. Even when discussing our commutes, many upper echelon managers get a car service to and from or at least from office. The rest of us schleps have to hoof it in and dodge criminals while on the train. I’ve been going into one of our many offices which is a 45 min drive in the morning and an hour drive coming home. Most of the manager, vps, and senior vp offices are empty. I’ve seen a few of them come in for two hours and then they’re gone. Do as I say not as I do. Morale among the minions isn’t high. Below an article from finance yahoo on the matter.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/workers-returning-to-the-office-but-wheres-the-boss-160541192.html

 

[Greenhorn2]

2 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Fascinating. I had never heard of this before, but it fits me perfectly. I vividly remember playing Oregon Trail on an old Apple computer in elementary school! Haha. I'm a couple years younger than even the most generous definition, but all the other descriptors match perfectly. I have 3 cousins in that exact age range though and we all get along extremely well. It makes more sense now. 

Damn y'all are making me feel old! I was 7 years old before we got our first wall phone in our house. No air conditioning until I  turned 19 and moved out on my own. Lordy mercy. Lol

[gustavehenne]

11 hours ago, Ryan said:

Employees will work from anywhere just as productively if they care about what they do.

What can be difficult is maintaining a coherent culture in a business/team/project. A sense of "team".

Working separately can have the opposite effect. It's a hard thing to measure or put a KPI on.

I couldn't agree with Andy more.

I run teams across six countries with our HQ split between Switzerland and New York, and my groups across Asia, Europe and the Americas. I spend the vast majority of my time with my stakeholders who are also spread out across the world. Am I more productive doing this from home or the office? Definitely from home - why? because I just go into the office and sit in a room by myself talking to people out with the office I'm working at.

That being said, I absolutely love bringing the team together for a purpose. Whether it be a quarterly leadership team meeting, monthly team drinks, workshop to discuss and whiteboard ideas etc. etc. - I'm all for it.

I've not seen any KPIs that suggest a lack of productivity from working from home and as others have said, it really depends on the person. Some are cut out for working from home, others use it as an excuse to slack off and others find it distracting and therefore not particularly helpful for their circumstance.

I've got one individual who has a 2.5 hour commute each way into the office - her productivity rocketed throughout the pandemic and her effectiveness doesn't matter one iota whether she is in or out of the office. If she prefers working from home (and comes in when she needs to!), great! It's all about empowering your people to make the best choices about how work life fits around them.

Start with trust, let your people chose and if it doesn't work out have a big boys/girls discussion with them. Chances are that if they are slacking off at home they will find excuses in the office to do the same thing.

[avaldes]

In modern business you adapt or you get run over. I don't think Elon is magical, his BS to insight ratio is about the same as anyone. There are plenty of industries that support remote work, apparently Tesla doesn't. I would never work there just because it sounds boring, but I'm sure to someone that got a degree in automotive engineering, they would be thrilled to go work at Tesla.

I also don't think the percentage of low productivity employees is any higher in a remote environment as it is in the office. Working remotely just makes managers have to work harder to actually understand what people do, as opposed to seeing Bob in the breakroom every day.

[SCgarman]

14 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Listen to this man, people. He speaks from experience.

 

 

Please wear pants from now on, Rob.... especially during Zoom meetings.

Or stick with the red wine. It won't burn the almighty tallywacker.

[ChicagoRob]

 I’m so glad that people like Elon speak common sense. 
Regardless of your team’s KPIs, the US economy is headed for a nasty crash. This due in part to an entitled generation of self absorbed narcissists who think the world revolves around their pleasure and entertainment. 
Remote work may be efficient for some, but for many of the inexperienced and immature workforce, it is just a way to sleep in, binge Netflix, and still collect a paycheck. 
I’d like to think there is a time coming when these foolish experiments will have run their course. 
 

Lmfao. This is satire right?

[cjmaas]

I work with my hands, so I’m genuinely clueless about much of this. But I’m extremely curious how WFHs can seemingly feel so secure. If you can do it 100% remotely, can’t somebody else halfway around the world do it just as well (or better) for centavos on the peso? Even if you’re well educated and perform a couple standard deviations above the mean, there are at least thousands of motivated people around the world just as capable and they’re willing and able to do your job for less. How do you sleep knowing that? 

[Ej456]

5 minutes ago, cjmaas said:

I work with my hands, so I’m genuinely clueless about much of this. But I’m extremely curious how WFHs can seemingly feel so secure. If you can do it 100% remotely, can’t somebody else halfway around the world do it just as well (or better) for centavos on the peso? Even if you’re well educated and perform a couple standard deviations above the mean, there are at least thousands of motivated people around the world just as capable and they’re willing and able to do your job for less. How do you sleep knowing that? 

You make an excellent point. Most of the wfh stories I see are about tech or investment companies that have either invested large amounts of capital in employees or more than likely have very talented employees, that can easily find employment else where. My co workers daughter just doubled her income and can work remote wherever she wants. Computer science. 

[Fuzz]

Well, that's the rub. If you only want WFH, do not complain when your job suddenly gets outsourced to another country, because there is little difference.

[Ken Gargett]

interesting topic but i must confess that i originally thought it might be a piss take given that i believe Di, Lisa and the team have you sign a visitor's book on the rare occasions you drop by. i came by to say hi earlier this week. i thought i was going to find your photo on a milk carton. most of your staff thought you were a myth (the tobacco version of the wizard of oz, yet to come out from behind the curtain). 

more seriously, "Not everyone is suited to WFH (Ken)", does this mean i am or am not?

i went from huge law firms with 400 plus lawyers plus staff, to smaller firms (i think i was much more suited to larger firms). then to working by myself from home. massive culture shock. plenty of times early when i felt absolutely bewildered and lost in the early days - and more than a bit scared i'd done the wrong thing. but one gets used to it and develops one's own rhythms and schedules and depending what one does, can be as flexible or rigid as one wishes. i think if i went back into a big firm, i'd be a pain in the arse, spending half the day yacking to everyone. 

the one thing i noticed was that when i worked in big firms, you often worked seven days a week, but you really knew you were doing it. now, unless i have a planned day or time for say a fishing trip or big lunch (like yesterday), i automatically work seven days a week. it does not occur to me not to work on a saturday or sunday. partly because i really need to but the fact that i really enjoy what i do (mostly), makes it easier. i suspect i'd be a bit lost if i didn't. i don't think about a working week and weekends. all just one these days. living on my own also makes that much easier. no way could i get away with it if i did not.