How long we giving Trinidad?

[BrightonCorgi]

52 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

After selling luxury wines through 2 major recessions, I can assure you this isn't true in my experience. When rich folks look at their portfolios & don't feel as rich anymore, they cut spending like everyone else. In the wine business it always appeared as if people dropped 2-3 price tiers down in products they consumed.

Recessions are the only times I ever buy Napa blue chip wines at auction; they're the first to go when someone culls their portfolio.

[El Hoze]

2 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Recessions are the only times I ever buy Napa blue chip wines at auction; they're the first to go when someone culls their portfolio.

The 2007 vintage for Napa cabs timed very well with the Global Financial Crisis! You could get any 2007 cult cab you wanted on release (expect maybe Screaming Eagle). I still have some 2007 Harlan, pains me to drink it knowing what I could sell it for. Pains me to sell it even more I suppose!

[BrightonCorgi]

3 hours ago, El Hoze said:

The 2007 vintage for Napa cabs timed very well with the Global Financial Crisis! You could get any 2007 cult cab you wanted on release (expect maybe Screaming Eagle). I still have some 2007 Harlan, pains me to drink it knowing what I could sell it for. Pains me to sell it even more I suppose!

I was chasing 70's and 80's Diamond Creeks, Inglenook's, & BV Latours during the 2007 crisis.  Still have from those auctions. 

I prefer the old school Napa style to what they've been doing for the last 20+ years.  It's harder to score deals at wine auctions now than it was back then.  Handful of producers have been great through the decades from Napa, so I'll buy their current offers like Ch. Montelena and Ridge.

[Hoepssa]

Trini will be fine, since price hike of Behike, they are true gems of we Asians, taste well when young, dandy as Cohiba too.

PCC put Trinidad as much premium brand since Habanos created the lines, another level of 'premium' compares to distributors from other continents.

I remember my first trip to Camp Nou, watching FC Barcelona matches (07/08 season), across the avenue of the stadium there's a nice shop selling cigars, when I saw prices of Trini I was shocked. Spain pricing of Trini today is still reasonable, that's totally different world if you do buy Habanos in PCC world that time.

I was the youngest one to smoke Habanos around my 20's, now in my mid 30's I'm the oldest smoker in those bars (rich old asians can manage to go a better place to smoke under current govt law), young generation likes cigars too and they are so willing to spend money on everything looks cool. PCC and Habanos knew that well from the start.

[ChicagoRob]

After selling luxury wines through 2 major recessions, I can assure you this isn't true in my experience. When rich folks look at their portfolios & don't feel as rich anymore, they cut spending like everyone else. In the wine business it always appeared as if people dropped 2-3 price tiers down in products they consumed.

I can’t comment on wine as that is out of my realm - but economics is not. On a personal note - what I’ve seen with my client base in the Private Bank & Asset Management world - I disagree with the premise that the wealthy do not continue to indulge during recession.

I find it interesting as well that you say wines decline during recession. In 08-09 we saw single malt whiskey grow 4% within “affordable luxury” companies worldwide. Alcohol sales rose 8% during that time. The “Addictive pleasure” demographic has shown consistently strong and one of the more recession proof sub sectors.

There are articles out there to support my claim as well. Vogue did an interesting article showing that heritage luxury brands faired well enough in the Great Recession.

Here is an interesting short article that highlights Gucci & LV business changes during the last recession. A line from the abstract, “Our results suggest conspicuous consumption endures in recessions; consumers who do not exit the luxury goods market are still interested in logo-laden products.”

Cuba could be well ahead of the game in anticipation of the next recession by pivoting to producing, selling and highlighting Cohiba & Trinidad.

https://www.marshall.usc.edu/sites/default/files/jnunes/intellcont/Conspicuous%20Consumption%20in%20a%20Recession%20Final-1.pdf

[Çnote]

7 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

After selling luxury wines through 2 major recessions

I can concur. Maybe more bottles sold, as affordable luxury intoxicants are a complex beast, but a tier or two down. Cava and prosecco over champagne. 

[Tstew75]

19 minutes ago, ChicagoRob said:

I can’t comment on wine as that is out of my realm - but economics is not. On a personal note - what I’ve seen with my client base in the Private Bank & Asset Management world - I disagree with the premise that the wealthy do not continue to indulge during recession.

I find it interesting as well that you say wines decline during recession. In 08-09 we saw single malt whiskey grow 4% within “affordable luxury” companies worldwide. Alcohol sales rose 8% during that time. The “Addictive pleasure” demographic has shown consistently strong and one of the more recession proof sub sectors.

There are articles out there to support my claim as well. Vogue did an interesting article showing that heritage luxury brands faired well enough in the Great Recession.

Here is an interesting short article that highlights Gucci & LV business changes during the last recession. A line from the abstract, “Our results suggest conspicuous consumption endures in recessions; consumers who do not exit the luxury goods market are still interested in logo-laden products.”

Cuba could be well ahead of the game in anticipation of the next recession by pivoting to producing, selling and highlighting Cohiba & Trinidad.

https://www.marshall.usc.edu/sites/default/files/jnunes/intellcont/Conspicuous%20Consumption%20in%20a%20Recession%20Final-1.pdf

Fascinating read.  Certainly not what I saw across 50+ luxury wine brands during that time...but my sample was only for the United States, so there's that limitation to my experience. 

Also, just for clarity- people indeed drink MORE during bad economic times, I'm just suggesting they trade down in price. Perhaps wine is different that handbags is this regard.

[Shrimpchips]

3 hours ago, Çnote said:

I can concur. Maybe more bottles sold, as affordable luxury intoxicants are a complex beast, but a tier or two down. Cava and prosecco over champagne. 

One would think (especially so in a pre-Instagram world), wines/alcohol would be considered less conspicuous than handbags as an outward signifier of status.  So while consumption rises, perhaps since it’s a less obvious flex, people are more amenable to drinking lower tier offerings in their own homes?  

[gojira]

I talked to a retailer in Germany yesterday and it seems that the regular Cohiba and Trinidad cigars will "only" double in price there from early July on. There are a few Trinidad that I like quite a bit but I will not pay €700 for a box of Coloniales. So I am giving Trinidad as long as I have stock left in my cabinet. There are plenty of other marcas that I enjoy.

[Çnote]

7 hours ago, Shrimpchips said:

One would think (especially so in a pre-Instagram world), wines/alcohol would be considered less conspicuous than handbags as an outward signifier of status.  So while consumption rises, perhaps since it’s a less obvious flex, people are more amenable to drinking lower tier offerings in their own homes?  

In 2008-2010, it cut both ways for my business. As I remember, we only had a few dozen cases of truely fine wine and it went very fast. We were able to supplement from other markets that had unforseen surplus, that went fast too. What was lost was all in the middle, and what I had personally spent 2 years building up, but we pivoted down into other regions for a couple years and built frankly a better base.

I think the trend will be bigger Cuban cigars for bigger dollars, with Cohiba raising all the boats, and Trinidad will benefit the most. They'll position it as the the real connoisseur smoke, and it will sell right after the Cohiba. I wish it was different, but look at 1er Bordeaux, GC burgs and marquee champagne. I remember DRC assortment for $3k and that being expensive. Cristal for $150, DP for $95. I distinctly remember selling 1985 Salon for $150 and ppl saying that was far too much for champagne, ha! 

 

[Hammer Smokin']

16 hours ago, Hoepssa said:

...young generation likes cigars too and they are so willing to spend money on everything looks cool. PCC and Habanos knew that well from the start.

fantastic!

[juri]

I’m a bit surprised they would also raise the prices on trin, cohiba yes it has the name to be a status symbol but if they left trin at its old prices they sales would sore from all the ex-cohiba smokers

wasted a great opportunity, could still have their Uber elite brand and now bring trin up to a top tier selling brand

[Digi]

On 5/14/2022 at 11:08 AM, El Hoze said:

(expect maybe Screaming Eagle). 

Literally the only time I was able to find bottles that didn't require a kidney.  Still have two...probably need to drink them this summer.

[El Hoze]

3 hours ago, Digi said:

Literally the only time I was able to find bottles that didn't require a kidney.  Still have two...probably need to drink them this summer.

If you have two I’d pop one 2007 for sure. Pretty in your face wine, fun to drink for sure. 

[Meesterjojo]

Well, busy travel nursing for months. Been making purchases all the while. Get home recently and realize that I have my last 2 boxes of Coloniales. Sadness. 

On the flip side, I'm still able to find BBF, Dip 2 (singles though, buy as many as can find), Connie A, and others on occasion. 

I should have kept up in the forums rather than wondering why every site has removed Trinidad. 

[Tstew75]

600 Euros for my beloved Laguito Vigia. I'm pretty crushed.

[Trapper99]

37 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

600 Euros for my beloved Laguito Vigia. I'm pretty crushed.

1100 for Col and 770 for Reyes😲 I don't even want to smoke the ones I have anymore

[EnigmatiC]

I picked up a box of Coloniales about 2 years ago and MAYBE a 1/3 of the box was any good. At $230 box it is what it is you live with it, at 1,100 not a chance.

[Tstew75]

43 minutes ago, Trapper99 said:

1100 for Col and 770 for Reyes😲 I don't even want to smoke the ones I have anymore

They will sit on shelves forever.

[Nevrknow]

BR here I come! Sell half and my other half are free. Hmmmmmm. 😁

[Greenhorn2]

3 hours ago, Nevrknow said:

BR here I come! Sell half and my other half are free. Hmmmmmm. 😁

You'll smoke them all because you can't replace them for what you got in them now. I know I'm keeping mine, unless my house falls into foreclosure. 

[LordAnubis]

What i want to know, i jsut want one example, one story of a guy seeing some fancy bloke walk into a high end lounge and say "my team has just won the suprbowl, i want 10 boxes of the very best of cuban cigars, i want Trinidad". Every man, his dog, and the millenial poser next to him knows cohiba and will do anything for the cohiba money shot. Even montecristo and romeo y julieta and partagas are known brands. I have never once heard of anyone asking for Trinidad other than us enthusiasts. We are not the demographic they are chasing.

[RichG]

1 hour ago, LordAnubis said:

I have never once heard of anyone asking for Trinidad other than us enthusiasts. We are not the demographic they are chasing.

This is definitely an important point, that Trini doesn’t work for the Instagram crowd. Is Habanos so far removed from reality that they don’t understand this? Or do they expect the Asian markets to carry this wild increase.

I saw a vendor listing Fundies priced at $3700 and Reyes at $900 this evening. Absolute madness. 

 

 

[LordAnubis]

I only see it surviving through a massive overhaul of the brand. Add shiny gold and holograms and red sickle and stars on the band, add atleast three more bands, hell make it all band. Box should be covered in gold leaf. Then there's a chance.

[NSXCIGAR]

As I've said, I love Trini as much as the next guy but quite frankly the cigars aren't good enough to command that kind of money. Cohiba is a step up and can deliver something the other marcas cannot even if you want to call that quality "different" instead of "better." 

Trini is about on par with Monte IMO. I've never felt they were special. I do like the blend but if I never had another one again I wouldn't be pining for it. Cohiba has something you've just got to have every so often. Doubling the price for them is a terrible mistake.