International pricing policy by Habanos SA

[Chas.Alpha]

32 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

This is increasingly going to be an issue. 

I would like to see them regardless of the vendor for Cohiba. 

Again, just my comfort level. If you have time to scrape off the bar code, how much more time does it take to switch out those CORO for a bundle of lovely rosado Dominican robustos? As they say, know your vendor. I met mine. He's a charming chap!

[El Presidente]

Just now, Chas.Alpha said:

Again, just my comfort level. If you have time to scrape off the bar code, how much more time does it take to switch out those CORO for a bundle of lovely rosado Dominican robustos? As they say, know your vendor. I met mine. He's a charming chap!

What concerns me is the quantity of high quality Cohiba fakes in the market right now. 

This accompanied by record low legitimate Cohiba supply (outside of I & II).

There exists a perfect storm.

 

[Chas.Alpha]

1 minute ago, El Presidente said:

What concerns me is the quantity of high quality Cohiba fakes in the market right now. 

This accompanied by record low legitimate Cohiba supply (outside of I & II).

There exists a perfect storm.

 

How hard would it be to teach a seasoned roller how to twist a triple cap?...

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Chas.Alpha said:

How hard would it be to teach a seasoned roller how to twist a triple cap?...

Dead easy.

The concern however is how the packaging/security details are being faked.

Some excellent work. 

 

 

[Nevrknow]

If it gets to good, think it will get to the point where all hands go up in the air and say the hell with it? 
 

Or enough new smokers just keep feeding the fire? 
 

Or with the new prices, anyone trying to be a baller will just buy whatever and ride the tide so to speak.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Nevrknow
I already factored in the glass top box tourists.

[NSXCIGAR]

13 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

From your point of view, or mine? You may certainly feel comfortable receiving boxes of unknown provenance. I for one enjoy knowing when and where they came from.

The issue isn't comfortability. It's whether trusted gray market vendors sell fakes and a scratched off barcode can't tell you that. There's still the microprint code which one could argue is more important. 

As Rob has pointed out distributors exchange product between each other regularly so you don't really know the "provenance" of any given box of CCs purchased outside of Cuba.

Would you buy unboxed and unbanded cigars from the gray market? I did for several years when a very well known and trusted vendor offered the deal. 

The single most important factor in buying cigars is vendor reputation. All else is pretty much irrelevant. 

 

6 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

How hard would it be to teach a seasoned roller how to twist a triple cap?...

Any seasoned roller knows the triple cap. As I pointed out I've seen well-rolled fakes since the early 2000s. Seen them so good you cannot tell. High quality wrappers on the other hand are a tip off which is why Cohiba Maduros are a very popular fake. I've seen some perfectly rolled. 

It's very possible for fakes to be good enough to appear perfect just the same way you need to look at the movement to check a Rolex. Everything's going to be perfect--box, bands, seals, cigars. Perhaps we are going to start seeing genuine boxes used more often as it allows for only the cigars themselves to be faked--the easiest part. I wonder if the market for empty Cohiba boxes is going up...

There is now such enormous profit to be made faking a box of Siglo VI I would expect many more resources to be committed to perfecting fakes. 

Again, the only way to combat this is to use only trusted vendors. 

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Any seasoned roller knows the triple cap.

This. Even a grade one roller in apprenticeship will be able do it.

I don‘t know where all this enduring „triple cap“ fuss has been originating from. This is just how CCs (and the vast majority of NCs for that matter) are being made (bar pigtails). If you don’t have it, it’s a truly bad fake, but other than that the triple cap tells you plain nothing about originality. I once visited a private roller in the Canaries back in the nineties, how did he roll? - Triple cap!

As you say, the rolling is the simplest part - technically that is (raw materials being key, in particular wrapper). Many if not most backstreet counterfeiters will have a daytime job in the factory. „Industrial scale“ counterfeiting will rely on skilled rollers only.

[Chas.Alpha]

16 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Dead easy.

The concern however is how the packaging/security details are being faked.

Some excellent work. 

 

 

In a follow up, as @NSXCIGAR posted a few lines down at what point are we going to see a market for empty Cohiba and Trini boxes/bands? the perfect fake... Although as you pointed out, the fakes are getting so realistic that the barcodes may be the only thing we have left. May come to a point where you can scan your box for $50 on a sleazy website?

[GoodStix]

On 7/3/2022 at 3:48 PM, Chas.Alpha said:

...know your vendor. I met mine. He's a charming chap!

My friend sad to hear you buy from other than Rob  😉

/me runs

[NSXCIGAR]

13 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

the fakes are getting so realistic that the barcodes may be the only thing we have left.

If genuine boxes and bands are used serials are meaningless. Or they can just be printed with a correct but duplicate serial. They'd have a few so they wouldn't send the same serial if one person ordered multiple boxes. 

Again, the only remedy is to buy from trusted vendors. 

22 hours ago, Fugu said:

I don‘t know where all this enduring „triple cap“ fuss has been originating from.

Same place cutting a cigar open to check for long filler came from. Neither has been an effective fake-detection method since the 90s. It's about as good as checking your Rolex for a sweeping second hand 

We're entering an era of professional fakery with serious money and resources being allocated to it. All outward signs are going to appear genuine. I can't say it enough--only use trusted vendors. 

[Bijan]

18 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

We're entering an era of professional fakery with serious money and resources being allocated to it. All outward signs are going to appear genuine. I can't say it enough--only use trusted vendors. 

The one that's going to be a real brain eff is going to be due to the new Cohiba prices it is starting to make sense to put Cohiba bands on actual PLPCs and put them in genuine or genuine looking Siglo II boxes with legit serials.

Then serials won't be any help and the "fake" cigars won't smoke like the garbage the glass top fakes do, but like genuine CCs just not Cohibas.

[joeypots]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:50 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

The single most important factor in buying cigars is vendor reputation. All else is pretty much irrelevant. 

Some of the best Cuban cigars I’ve had came from a rebox and sometimes reband vendor. I’ve never used a lot of vendors but the ones I use I trust. I think the old man told me that I shouldn’t do business with people I don’t trust. More important than ever now.

[NSXCIGAR]

11 hours ago, joeypots said:

Some of the best Cuban cigars I’ve had came from a rebox and sometimes reband vendor.

Why would a (legitimate) vendor rebox and reband? 

[El Presidente]

 

[Bijan]

10 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Why would a vendor rebox and reband? 

Guess one step further than the unboxed and unbanded cigars you had bought in the past. (guess even more paranoia in terms of customs with regards to cuban contraband).

[NSXCIGAR]

4 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Guess one step further than the unboxed and unbanded cigars you had bought in the past. (guess even more paranoia in terms of customs with regards to cuban contraband).

Maybe that's what was meant. Unboxed/unbanded is understandable. Reboxing/rebanding I don't get. Especially the rebanding.

[JustDave]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:34 PM, Chas.Alpha said:

In a follow up, as @NSXCIGAR posted a few lines down at what point are we going to see a market for empty Cohiba and Trini boxes/bands? the perfect fake... Although as you pointed out, the fakes are getting so realistic that the barcodes may be the only thing we have left. May come to a point where you can scan your box for $50 on a sleazy website?

This is an issue with bourbon already.  

[Puros Y Vino]

When I see the various posts from Rob showing Habanos' faux pas' in terms of packaging, etc it illustrates that without proper processes and controls, any anti-counterfeiting measures are half measures at best.  It used to be that some of the types of printing required for the bands were hard to get but I guess if you grease the right palms, someone can do a run of BHK bands for you after hours. And then there are those perfect replicas of entire boxes with inserts, etc up for grabs on Ali Baba which can be made by the 1000's per order.  Whatever new schemes Habanos comes up with, they may have to be more subtle about it and make the verification tools better than what exists now.