Aging CC vs NC Cigars

[tjkoala]

Hello FOH fam, I've been searching through the annals of the board and wanted to pose a question to the community that I haven't seen explicitly discussed.

In your opinion, why do you believe Cuban tobacco (in general) ages better than non-Cuban tobacco? There are plenty of examples of non-Cubans (e.g., Opus, Davidoff, and other premium lines) that do age their stock quite a bit but the consensus seems to be that non-Cuban cigars tend to peak at 4-7 years of age where Cubans can keep punching well over 10+ years of age. What about Cuban tobacco allows it to improve year after year? My understanding is that your average non-Cuban cigar hits the shelves anywhere between 90 days to a year after rolling where HSA rolls, boxes, and then is off to the distribution network. 

Looking forward to some different perspectives!

[PrairieSmoke]

I think you’ve already pointed to the fact that NCs tend to work with tobacco that has aged longer before it hits the shelves. This’ll
 

I’ve also believe (correct me if I’m wrong) some NC operations have developed techniques to speed certain parts of the tobacco curing/aging process. 
 

Those two areas may account for something. Most NCs I smoke are more “ready to smoke” than the Cubans I buy. 
 

There is a lot of subjective reasons people may also have this perception. NCs tend toward a body and flavor level that is much more full than CCs. Maybe the perceived drop off is steeper for NCs for this reason as well?

Perhaps fans of CCs appreciate subtlety that comes from aging? 
 

Personally, I can enjoy a 20 year old NC Davidoff no problem. So I’d tend toward believing the perception on aging NCs or CCs is subjective. 

[tjkoala]

I do think you're right on with the stock being aged when it hits the shelves for cigars like the Padron or Opus series but your average off the B&M shelves NC aren't all that aged. Certainly past the sic period but your average AJ Fernandez or Drew Estate production might be a year and to my understanding is best within the first 3 years of purchase. I'd be curious to how NC producers cure their tobacco and how the process differs from the Cuban method.

Certainly Nicaraguan tobacco is well regarded for it's bold, spicy, and powerful characteristics but for Dominican and other countries it can be quite different profiles. I'd also be curious to why Dominican tobacco is a hotbed where I've never heard of a Haitian cigar despite sharing an island with their tobacco crazy neighbors.

[mprach024]

I can’t speak to why, smarter people than me will likely give some very thorough and technical answers.  I can only say that with all the aged examples of cigars I’ve had (mostly CC), the best by far were 12 year old Opus X A and a Fuente Fuente.  It was so much different from the typical overbearing and biting profile of a young Opus.  It was almost sweet, extremely smooth, and playful like a 20 year old Bordeaux.  

[Puros Y Vino]

There is definitely more qualitative data/opinions on CC's aging potential than NC than there is actual studies/evidence.  Some people I know who smoke both, have mentioned that they try to age both and see no major differences.  The following anecdotes stuck with me.  One friend mentioned he has Opus X boxes of the same cigar 10 years apart.  To his palate, the 10YO doesn't taste any different than the fresh ones.  Another guy I knew swore by aging boxes of Padron 1000's series for at least 4 years to really make them more complex.  But,  he said the higher end Padron stuff that is already made with aged tobacco, pretty much stays the same.  Many friends who are crazy about Drew Estate cigars have told me they aren't worth aging either.  They tend to go through them ASAP.  Two to three years max on their lifespan.  I've found the OR Cohiba Maduro Genios(2007) start to stagnate around 10 years of "life" and that includes the age of the tobacco when released plus some years in the humidor.  I smoked one around 2012 and found that it was very lifeless. That made me pickup my smoke rate of my 2009 Genios just in case.  😁

I think Habanos releases where the tobacco is already aged, then rolled tend to be spot on upon release.  But I "feel" that cigars that are not rolled with aged tobacco, tend to fare better over time as I believe (and I stress believe over "know") that they have more of their oils intact.  And over time, those oils from the various leaf types shape the flavour and body of the cigar.  My belief stems from the many vintage cigars I smoked that were just regular production sticks that I found to smoke better than something like a Cohiba Maduro.  For instance. Let's take a 2009 box of CoRo and Cohiba Maduro Genios.  Upon release the CoRo's are 1YO and the Genios are technically 5YO already(Wrapper = 5yrs. Binder/filler=3yrs).  So, that makes the Genios "older" from the start.  In 2019, If I reached for one of each, I'd bet the CoRo's have more life left in them than the Genios. But that's just my opinion.   

[Juliano88]

Tobacco is Tobacco. It will continue to micro ferment and sweat out the ammonia and break down the impurities. Some of the best NC's i've smoked had 5+ years on them. I think it comes down to the quality of the tobacco used, how it was fermented, quality of the crop that grew that tobacco. I feel CC's tend to age deeper into the Second maturation period but a cigar is a cigar. However, I believe most NC's have a shelf life for peak maturity. 

From my experiences:

-Almost all Fuentes continue to retain their character with 5-8 years on them.

-Anejo's and Opus are great with 10 years on them.

-Most full bodied Tatuaje's i've enjoyed with 5-7 years on them.

-Most pepin cigars mellow out and are fantastic with about 5 years on them.

-Illusione's smoke great off the rolling table and continue to smoke great with 3-5 years on them.

[El Presidente]

3 hours ago, mprach024 said:

  It was almost sweet, extremely smooth, and playful like a 20 year old Bordeaux.  

Bordeaux!!! Of course.

.....I was wondering where you were heading 🤣

[El Presidente]

6 hours ago, tjkoala said:

In your opinion, why do you believe Cuban tobacco (in general) ages better than non-Cuban tobacco?

I am not sure it does. 

NC bales are available to purchase 3 years +. If you have the coin (and or resources), you can buy what you want. To be fair it is a little more difficult today. 

We have all found that the Nudie N1 and N3 from 2019 improved just as much as a 2019 Cuban over the past 30 months.   Why? we used 3 year old tobacco which is predominanlty the age 2019 Cubans were using. 

I believe quality tobacco ages well regardless of where it is from. 

I believe a properly blended cigar utilising quality tobacco will have legs if the blend (intent) allows it to. Where the tobacco is from makes little difference. 

 

 

[tjkoala]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I am not sure it does. 

Whelp, debate settled. Idk if anybody else in the forum has actually bought and had tobacco rolled for them so El Prez is our de facto expert!  

[El Presidente]

17 minutes ago, tjkoala said:

Whelp, debate settled. Idk if anybody else in the forum has actually bought and had tobacco rolled for them so El Prez is our de facto expert!  

Far from it 🤪

Our own blending team has differing opinions on almost all aspects.of the blending and aging process.

Test and measure...test and measure...repeat.

[BrightonCorgi]

Try most NC's with an additional decade or even two on them.  They're more likely to smoke like paper than Habanos.  Curing and age of the tobacco like other say is the main reason.

[mprach024]

8 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Bordeaux!!! Of course.

.....I was wondering where you were heading 🤣

I’m rarely heading anywhere

[RijkdeGooier]

I had the pleasure of visiting a few well known factorías en la RD, including the Cathedral del Tabacco from Fuente. 
 

The material prima that is currently processed ranges from 6 to 12 years old. 
 

Hence when going to market they are ready to smoke, much more so than the Cuban cigars. 
 

The Cuban cigars  have more legs in aging simply because the are younger when brought to market. 
 

Prior to the mid 90’s this was also the case for Cuban cigars. 

[Juliano88]

My Tatuaje La Verite's from 2015 have all been 95's throughout the box. My box of 6 year old Tatuaje Black Label Petit Lancero's have been sublime.