Cubans Arriving at US Southern Border

[ElJavi76]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

it's a tragic tug of war. 

Cuban Gov't pulling on one arm. You and your ilk pulling on the other. Both say they are trying to save him.

In the end the man in the middle starves and both sides blame each other for his death. They both organise another march. 

 

 

I’m trying to not make this personal Rob. My opinion on the embargo doesn’t move the needle on the subject. I don’t shape foreign policy from my seat. I assure you of it. There are a bunch of Cubans in the NY metro area but nothing like Florida. Local govt in NJ could give a ykw about Cuba or any embargo. It means very little to folks this far north, and dare I say to the bulk of everyday Americans. 
 

I also resent being blamed for anything going on in Cuba. It’s simply not true. I’m busy trying to figure out ways to get a few dollars to my kin without surrendering tithe to the govt. 

I’ll step away now knowing this is a complex subject. I don’t think we’ll find the answers here but there is an over abundance of emotion on all sides. 

[El Presidente]

6 minutes ago, ElJavi76 said:

I also resent being blamed for anything going on in Cuba. It’s simply not true. I’m busy trying to figure out ways to get a few dollars to my kin without surrendering tithe to the govt. 

I’ll step away now knowing this is a complex subject. I don’t think we’ll find the answers here but there is an over abundance of emotion on all sides. 

Again, we agree to disagree. 

I am also trying to get funds to friends in Cuba.  Right now I would accept the Govt taking their 15% if it meant food on the table or a ticket out of the place. The Cuban on the ground gets screwed again by those (on all sides) purporting to have his best interests at heart. He/she can't win.

[Fuzz]

I am always surprised that the only solution people keep coming up with is get rid of the commies. Sure, Communism is not good, but it is not necessarily the first thing that needs to be done to improve the lives of the Cuban people. Capitalism and Communism can co-exist together, but the opportunity first needs to exist. Right now, there is no opportunity because the embargo is in the way. Remove the embargo, open pathways to let money in, give people avenues to work beyond their own system. Sure, if you do that those in power will get richer, but so too can others.

China is an example of where Communism and Capitalism are working together (it's nowhere near perfect, but it works). Sure, you are living under an autocracy, but the ever growing middle class now have a standard of living that is slowly becoming the equal to those in the West. During Mao's era, China's economy was a basket case. 40+ years later, they are now the 2nd largest economy soon to eclipse the US. The growing middle class has brought about financial and social reforms in Govt policies that continue improve people's lives. Poverty is slowly dwindling, even in the rural areas. The generations born after the 90s are experiencing a better standard of living than their parents ever had.

The Cuban people just need the opportunity, but there will never be one with the embargo in place.

[...]

7 hours ago, Fuzz said:

I am always surprised that the only solution people keep coming up with is get rid of the commies. Sure, Communism is not good, but it is not necessarily the first thing that needs to be done to improve the lives of the Cuban people. Capitalism and Communism can co-exist together, but the opportunity first needs to exist. Right now, there is no opportunity because the embargo is in the way. Remove the embargo, open pathways to let money in, give people avenues to work beyond their own system. Sure, if you do that those in power will get richer, but so too can others.

China is an example of where Communism and Capitalism are working together (it's nowhere near perfect, but it works). Sure, you are living under an autocracy, but the ever growing middle class now have a standard of living that is slowly becoming the equal to those in the West. During Mao's era, China's economy was a basket case. 40+ years later, they are now the 2nd largest economy soon to eclipse the US. The growing middle class has brought about financial and social reforms in Govt policies that continue improve people's lives. Poverty is slowly dwindling, even in the rural areas. The generations born after the 90s are experiencing a better standard of living than their parents ever had.

The Cuban people just need the opportunity, but there will never be one with the embargo in place.

I doubt a single policy change, internal or external, would be enough to significantly improve the life of most Cubans. There would be effects, counter-effects, consequences from any single change, then ideally the integration of multiple changes balancing each others' negative effects for most people is what smooth things out. in my opinion, the safe approch is to engineer the solution and implement it step by step, understanding that growing pains are unavoidable. If additional discomfort (temporary) is off the table, then you end up with status quo as the existing suffering is politically easier to accept then direct responsibility for additional suffering for any 'greater good'

Also important to factor in, regardless of the system, there are people who benefit more from said system than any new system that would benefit others; can be objective or just a perception but as humans, we are on average reluctant to let go of what we already have (or what we think we have, the freedom conundrum comes to mind)... there will always be opposition to changes and improvements, in part because there is a vast history of decision makers doing it wrong, for wrong reasons, for the secret benefit of some to the detriment of others on purpose. Corruption, regardless of the position on the political spectrum, is a deeply human issue

[SMELTZ]

Good and Evil cannot coexist. 

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, SMELTZ said:

Good and Evil cannot coexist. 

Not true. You cannot have one without the other. What is Good, without Evil to measure it by, and vice versa?