Cubans Arriving at US Southern Border

[anacostiakat]

Cubans arriving in record numbers along Mexico border - The Washington Post

[Corylax18]

Yup. I know two that are one their way up from Panama/Nicaragua right now. I used to live about an hour from Yuma, that's the place to make the crossing, its not nearly as bad as Texas. 

The comment about things getter better if Biden changes tack just aren't true. Its too late, these people are selling EVERYTHING they can to Fund the $7-$15K cost to pay for the flight and coyote. There's nothing for them to go back too. I still hope Biden changes things, but it wont make this problem go away. 

My greatest hope is that we aren't accepting 10's of thousands of new voters for the people that insist on continuing an outdated and embarrassing "diplomatic" relationship with the country.  

[SpecialK]

2 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Yup. I know two that are one their way up from Panama/Nicaragua right now. I used to live about an hour from Yuma, that's the place to make the crossing, its not nearly as bad as Texas. 

The comment about things getter better if Biden changes tack just aren't true. Its too late, these people are selling EVERYTHING they can to Fund the $7-$15K cost to pay for the flight and coyote. There's nothing for them to go back too. I still hope Biden changes things, but it wont make this problem go away. 

My greatest hope is that we aren't accepting 10's of thousands of new voters for the people that insist on continuing an outdated and embarrassing "diplomatic" relationship with the country.  

On the plus side they know the intrinsic risks of Communism and will not be friendly to socialist policies that are sure to be pitched in the next few years ..  

[Islandboy]

Damn...I read the post heading and thought we had a new source for cigars 

[Kitchen]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

On the plus side they know the intrinsic risks of Communism and will not be friendly to socialist policies that are sure to be pitched in the next few years ..  

At this point, I would not be surprised if the Cubans are singled out and sent back while all the others are let on through.  

[MrBirdman]

4 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

My greatest hope is that we aren't accepting 10's of thousands of new voters for the people that insist on continuing an outdated and embarrassing "diplomatic" relationship with the country.  

I’m sure illegally voting is the first thing on their minds once they get here. In fact, it’s probably the real reason why they made the trip. 

[Ryan]

No voting on a Green Card, and citizenship usually takes 5 years after getting that. I was canvassed, 25 years ago, by a representative Joe Moore in an L station in Chicago for 15 minutes until I told him I had no vote as I was on a green card. He took it well. Welcomed me, which was nice.

Cubans have an easier time being granted political asylum in the US than people from other Latin American countries, as they are coming from a communist regime and can show evidence of political oppression.

It's one of the reasons so many of them are murdered on their way through Nicaragua and Mexico. For their documentation. 

[Islandboy]

35 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

I’m sure illegally voting is the first thing on their minds once they get here. In fact, it’s probably the real reason why they made the trip. 

I think he means voting to keep the embargo in place.

[Corylax18]

52 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

I’m sure illegally voting is the first thing on their minds once they get here. In fact, it’s probably the real reason why they made the trip. 

That's not my concern at all, Cuban's do have special laws within the system and can become citizens much quicker than immigrants from other countries. During the wetfoot/dry foot period it could be as little as two years. It still only takes a year for them to get a green card, I'm sure the full citizenship process is taking longer now, but it definitely isn't the 10,12, 15 years that people from some other countries have to wait. 

 

20 minutes ago, Islandboy said:

I think he means voting to keep the embargo in place.

Yes, Legally though. 

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

On the plus side they know the intrinsic risks of Communism and will not be friendly to socialist policies that are sure to be pitched in the next few years ..  

I don't think the political bent is particularly important as long as the anti Castro rhetoric is strong. We see support on both sides of the spectrum in NJ and FL. 

[ElJavi76]

Nobody really believes that the main reason we still have an embargo is the voting base from ONE of 50 states, right? I’d like to think Cuban Americans yield the bulk of the muscle in local government in states like Florida. However, to think that we shape foreign policy like the embargo all by ourselves is laughable. It’s been beaten to death here and across other mediums that the real reason Cuba isn’t on the radar when it comes to foreign policy is that there’s nothing to take from Cuba. Strategic location, sure. The balance between being a threat or a potential ally is negligible. Like I said, no oil or resources worth pursuing in Cuba. I think that sums up the lack of interest. 
 

Cuban immigrants can attain green cards sooner than most others but last I checked you still need to be a permanent resident (green card holder) for 5 years before applying for citizenship. You won’t have to worry about these Cuban immigrants for at least 6-7 years before they can “tip the embargo scale”. 😂 

I also think those folks are busy trying not to get kidnapped in Mexico before they can get across. Cuban immigrants in Mexico are disproportionately targeted for kidnappings because the cartels assume their kin in America have money to pay for their ransom. Very complicated stuff. 

[dgixxer252525]

I have a cousin at the border right now. Scary stuff for sure. She has a 9 year old with her. She can’t wait to see the injustices of America in action…

[Chas.Alpha]

4 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

 

Cuban immigrants can attain green cards sooner than most others but last I checked you still need to be a permanent resident (green card holder) for 5 years before applying for citizenship. You won’t have to worry about these Cuban immigrants for at least 6-7 years before they can “tip the embargo scale”. 😂 

Real question: Do most Cuban/Americans support an embargo that obviously doesn't hurt the Cuban government but takes it's toll on the people? I was fortunate enough to visit Cuba when the US restrictions were eased, and found nothing short of daily struggle. And wonderful mates... I signed up for salsa dance lessons, as my wife says I dance like something like a combination between Snoopy and PeeWee Herman. I ended up giving jazz drum lessons at the percussion studio next door. We all bring our strengths. I still dance like Snoopy. 

Yes, the Cuban embargo is an issue that very much is used as a political lightning rod here in Florida.

What are your opinions about it?

4 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

. 

 

[Arminius]

damn, I didn't expect this when I read the title

[Trapper99]

I’m headed down to Tijuana next weekend with my Ukrainian wife to try and get her mother across. PedWest crossing is back open, exclusively for Ukrainians (not even processing US citizens) apparently processing 800 per day. 

Sucks this is the system for the widely advertised 100k refugees US will accept, but it is what it is so just have to go with it. A vast majority of these Ukrainians will go back once the war is (hopefully) over. I think the gov doesn’t understand they just want temp entry to be with family during the war, not green cards and gov benny’s. That’s why this system sucks.

Not surprising the influx Tijuana is going to see over the next month, between Ukrainians getting in now and Hispanics getting ready for the policy change coming up in May. 

 

[anacostiakat]

22 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Yup. I know two that are one their way up from Panama/Nicaragua right now. I used to live about an hour from Yuma, that's the place to make the crossing, its not nearly as bad as Texas. 

The comment about things getter better if Biden changes tack just aren't true. Its too late, these people are selling EVERYTHING they can to Fund the $7-$15K cost to pay for the flight and coyote. There's nothing for them to go back too. I still hope Biden changes things, but it wont make this problem go away. 

My greatest hope is that we aren't accepting 10's of thousands of new voters for the people that insist on continuing an outdated and embarrassing "diplomatic" relationship with the country.  

Don't want to turn this into a political thing but remember the source.  Washington Post is an exceedingly liberal paper.  I should know.  I read it daily.  

[ElJavi76]

14 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

Real question: Do most Cuban/Americans support an embargo that obviously doesn't hurt the Cuban government but takes it's toll on the people?

Chas, my truth (I won’t call it THE truth) is that the dictatorship in Cuba is far more interested in an embargo than we are. This way they can demonize the imperialist. Do any of us really believe that with a lifted embargo Cuba somehow turns into a Democratic form of govt? Or even a less communist govt? So tomorrow embargo goes away… Juana makes trinkets in Havana and she wants to somehow export/sell them to the states. The second any citizen in Cuba gets 2 nickels to rub together they come in and you know “adjust things”. (If you disagree ask about your friendly neighborhood custom roller… some (not all) of these guys got a little too popular and collected too much money and they got cleaned out.) No embargo doesn’t mean no oppression for the Cubans. They would remain a totalitarian regime.

I really want to know what folks think would happen if the embargo was gone. Cuba would be able to buy more products from the rest of the world… would other countries still trade with them? They don’t pay their bills. Would the communist all of a sudden become humanitarians and let their newfound riches rain down upon their citizenry? I think we don’t know what we don’t know, but to think that we can trust communists with a sudden change of heart. I sincerely disagree! 
 

FYI … take any of my comments with a grain of salt. I’m not here to convince you or anyone of what I believe. Nor do I expect to be swayed in any way by other folks opinions. I do however respect everyone’s take. I’m just some guy that got here on a shrimping boat with 285 Cuban refugees during the 1980 boat lift, with family that remains back there. Just another viewpoint is all. 

[MrBirdman]

35 minutes ago, ElJavi76 said:

FYI … take any of my comments with a grain of salt.

That's how I take most opinions here, but I tend to give more credence to someone like you who is in a position to know more about this issue than many others here (including me). 

I think you make a valid point that there is absolutely no guarantee that lifting the embargo will lead to democracy in Cuba. There are plenty of oppressive, un-embargoed countries lending credence to that! But I also think you'd agree that the embargo is making life harder and increasing suffering for the people of Cuba, and it hasn't changed the government in 50 years of trying. 

Also, to @Corylax18, I understand your point and wasn't trying to throw a ton of shade your way. I still don't understand why so many Floridian Cubans are adamant about maintaining the status quo in light of the above. I just don't think their potential voting preferences years from now are worth being concerned about (even though I may disagree with them). That same rationale is unjustly used to oppose all kinds of legal immigration. 

[Chas.Alpha]

22 minutes ago, ElJavi76 said:

 

FYI … take any of my comments with a grain of salt. I’m not here to convince you or anyone of what I believe. Nor do I expect to be swayed in any way by other folks opinions. I do however respect everyone’s take. I’m just some guy that got here on a shrimping boat with 285 Cuban refugees during the 1980 boat lift, with family that remains back there. Just another viewpoint is all. 

Having been on a shrimpin' boat makes your comments/opinions VASTLY more valid than mine or most anyone else's. I just can't help but wonder what could be done to help the people of Cuba.

[argrovesjd]

3 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

Chas, my truth (I won’t call it THE truth) is that the dictatorship in Cuba is far more interested in an embargo than we are. This way they can demonize the imperialist. Do any of us really believe that with a lifted embargo Cuba somehow turns into a Democratic form of govt? Or even a less communist govt? So tomorrow embargo goes away… Juana makes trinkets in Havana and she wants to somehow export/sell them to the states. The second any citizen in Cuba gets 2 nickels to rub together they come in and you know “adjust things”. (If you disagree ask about your friendly neighborhood custom roller… some (not all) of these guys got a little too popular and collected too much money and they got cleaned out.) No embargo doesn’t mean no oppression for the Cubans. They would remain a totalitarian regime.

I really want to know what folks think would happen if the embargo was gone. Cuba would be able to buy more products from the rest of the world… would other countries still trade with them? They don’t pay their bills. Would the communist all of a sudden become humanitarians and let their newfound riches rain down upon their citizenry? I think we don’t know what we don’t know, but to think that we can trust communists with a sudden change of heart. I sincerely disagree! 
 

FYI … take any of my comments with a grain of salt. I’m not here to convince you or anyone of what I believe. Nor do I expect to be swayed in any way by other folks opinions. I do however respect everyone’s take. I’m just some guy that got here on a shrimping boat with 285 Cuban refugees during the 1980 boat lift, with family that remains back there. Just another viewpoint is all. 

Agree.  The embargo gives the Castro's a boogeyman to blame everything bad on.  It also puts millions of $$ into the hands of certain Cubans in Miami (calling cards, air charters, freight, etc).  So regarding the powerful on both sides, I wonder if any of them sincerely want the embargo to be lifted?  

[El Presidente]

5 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

I really want to know what folks think would happen if the embargo was gone.

• I could transfer funds freely and cheaply to Cuban friends. 
• I wouldn't have bank accounts closed for dealing in Cuban products. (result of Cuba being placed on the State sponsors of terrorism list)
• I would have no issue opening merchant facilities dealing in Cuban goods. (result of people being placed on the State sponsors of terrorism list
• Freight to and from Cuba becomes cheaper as more players (shipping/air) take Cuban off the blocked list. 
• Goods become cheaper as international goods companies will deal direct as opposed through third parties (as they currently do) in order to avoid any US scrutiny of their US operations. 
• US investment (likely JV) in various areas from agriculture to manufacturing. It may end in disaster but it is not permitted under the embargo. 
• Increated outside US investment as there is no longer a threat of a US Treasury backlash to Euro/Asia companines with US based businesses. 
• Increased US tourism. They may only go once but it is better than right now. 
• glimmer of HOPE  for insitue Cubans.  Those with no OS family/relatives/friends/ options. 

But most importantly

• Cuban govt runs out of patsies to blame. They will gradually own and be solely responsible to  their performance.

[Chas.Alpha]

Yep. That’s about what my limited knowledge of this topic believes...

[ElJavi76]

15 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

Having been on a shrimpin' boat makes your comments/opinions VASTLY more valid than mine or most anyone else's. I just can't help but wonder what could be done to help the people of Cuba.

Chas honestly my opinion doesn’t weigh more than yours. Mine just comes from a different place. If anyone thinks that i don’t want to ease the daily pains of my fellow Cubans…that’s insane. My family remains there. I also have an axe to grind with the communists. They took my family’s land from them. They imprisoned my father and uncles for not being “one of them” and for sharing their ideology. 

I admit that all of that pent up frustration is what drives my disdain for the communists. I get that it’s been a stupid exercise for close to 60 years. But they could lift it as easily and maybe easier than we could. They’re not that interested. 

 

10 hours ago, El Presidente said:

• I could transfer funds freely and cheaply to Cuban friends. 
• I wouldn't have bank accounts closed for dealing in Cuban products. (result of Cuba being placed on the State sponsors of terrorism list)
• I would have no issue opening merchant facilities dealing in Cuban goods. (result of people being placed on the State sponsors of terrorism list
• Freight to and from Cuba becomes cheaper as more players (shipping/air) take Cuban off the blocked list. 
• Goods become cheaper as international goods companies will deal direct as opposed through third parties (as they currently do) in order to avoid any US scrutiny of their US operations. 
• US investment (likely JV) in various areas from agriculture to manufacturing. It may end in disaster but it is not permitted under the embargo. 
• Increated outside US investment as there is no longer a threat of a US Treasury backlash to Euro/Asia companines with US based businesses. 
• Increased US tourism. They may only go once but it is better than right now. 
• glimmer of HOPE  for insitue Cubans.  Those with no OS family/relatives/friends/ options. 

But most importantly

• Cuban govt runs out of patsies to blame. They will gradually own and be solely responsible to  their performance.

Rob, you know I love you brother… but that laundry list above sounds like your wishlist. To be fair I know my comment was open-ended… instead my comment should have read more like, what good would come directly to the Cuban people as a result of lifting the big bad embargo?
 

I absolutely understand it impacts you and your business on many levels not visible to the naked eye, and it’s not to minimize those struggles. I know this is how you make a living and provide for your family and the FOH staff. I wish we could wave a wand and make it all better and I think that would likely mean no communism on the island. 

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, ElJavi76 said:

I absolutely understand it impacts you and your business on many levels not visible to the naked eye, and it’s not to minimize those struggles.

Bullshit brother. 

I always find a way. 

They can't. 

Get off their backs. 

“I sit on a man's back choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am sorry for him and wish to lighten his load by all means possible… except by getting off his back.”

― Leo Tolstoy,

I find a great divide between recent immigrant Cubans and US born.

everyone wants freedom for Cuban people. You march side by side. But only one group wants to inflict additional pain to those living there.

No problem.  Let's keep revisiting 60 years of policy failure. Insanity personified.

God forbid trying something different. 

maybe start with a "rising tide lifts all boats policy"

want to hurt the govt?. US banking access to Cu ban private businesses. Do their business, bank their profits (PARTLY) outside of Cuba.

go ahead and ban every member of Cuban military/congress and their families. Not that hard.

free up everyone else 

target sanctions. Don't carpet bomb the entire populace.

 

[ElJavi76]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

go ahead and ban every member of Cuban military/congress and their families. Not that hard.

free up everyone else 

target sanctions. Don't carpet bomb the entire populace.

How do you suppose we unleash economical freedom on the populace but kink the communist’s hose? Totalitarian govts don’t share the wealth very well but they certainly share the misery. I don’t see how we free the population without those in control taking advantage of those measures. 
 

A parallel there could be the minimum wage arguments going on everywhere. Yes you can make a business owner pay their employees $15 an hour, but you can’t make them employ the same amount of folks or to hand those costs down to consumers. So now the employee makes more, the consumer pays more… and with that pattern across the board, the extra $3 dollars per hour that employee makes he has to spend for more expensive goods and services. It’s a wash at the end of the day. 
 

I did preface my comments with, it’s only THIS man’s opinion. I don’t purport to have the answers and I agree that 60 years of the same policy hasn’t changed a thing. I think it’s a matter of stubborn men with huge egos that don’t really care about their fellow man. I would think that Cuba would have a bigger responsibility in the well-being of their citizens. So back to the opinion that the communists aren’t very interested in their own. They need  saving from the outside. More empathy and less narcissism is required across the board. 
 

PS “I find a great divide between recent immigrant Cubans and US born.“ 

For the record I’m not in either of these camps. Born there. Migrated here 40+ years ago. So I was one of the lucky ones that got out. For a brief moment my parents thought about recanting their application to leave with a political prisoner status. They were fearful that if they didn’t get out we’d get stuck there and other reprisals would ensue. In an alternate reality I’d still be living in Cuba struggling along with my family. The struggle isn’t lost on me. 

[El Presidente]

it's a tragic tug of war. 

Cuban Gov't pulling on one arm. You and your ilk pulling on the other. Both say they are trying to save him.

In the end the man in the middle starves and both sides blame each other for his death. They both organise another march.