Cohiba Novedosos In the wild....

[benfica_77]

Not mine! But thought you gents would want to see. 

[Astar20]

Those look amazing scared of the price though!! 

[Hammer Smokin']

well a robusto is $25 a cigar these days. This is an extra inch (or 1/6th longer). Call it $30 bucks a cigar. So $300 for the box of 10?

In reality I suspect $450 to $500 for a box of ten. 

[cookj1]

They are fantastic.  Excellent format too.  In all honesty, I actually prefer the Montecristo Herederos, which I got at the same time.  I’m splitting hairs though as they’re both classics.  Not cheap, but fan-fkkn-tastic smokes.

[Corylax18]

7 minutes ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

well a robusto is $25 a cigar these days. This is an extra inch (or 1/6th longer). Call it $30 bucks a cigar. So $300 for the box of 10?

In reality I suspect $450 to $500 for a box of ten. 

They come in 25s. So I'm guessing closer to Esplendido prices, $1300-1400 a box. 

[Hammer Smokin']

oh crap, didn't see that. 

yes, I'm sure you are correct. 

[Digi]

Huh, I was figuring they’d be closer to Behike prices than Espy.  

[Edicion]

Looks amazing 

[nKostyan]

Wow, she does exist after all

[SMELTZ]

Cohiba Novedosos LCDH

Cohiba Novedosos are showing up in the wild. Vendors selling the 25 box cohibas between $6,000 and $8,000

[LizardGizmo]

I think it smells funny that these are rolling out in the grey market only, and not in proper distribution chain first. I know the cigar was launched in Spain in '19, but it's also odd to me that a market with still-bare shelves that has no LCDHs is the first to launch an LCDH cigar. Has PCC received any boxes? Has Phoenicia? Has H&F?

I was told in March by the Cohiba production manager in Cuba that these cigars were produced around the launch ~4 years ago in small quantities - less than 15 boxes - and that they haven't been produced at all since that time. He said he thought they might never see the light of day.

Given the prominent counterfeit ring in Spain that caused so many issues last year and the recent issue with Mastestuosos (see Habano News on YouTube), I am still very much of the belief that these are not legitimate boxes we are seeing and I won't change that until I hear from Rob, Alex Groom or another trusted voice who can verify.

And then, I still won't buy them at this ridiculous two-band price.

[LOMTL]

Saw a box in Spain 5k€ couple weeks ago, BHK 52 1.8k€, BHK 54 2.27k€....

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, LizardGizmo said:

I think it smells funny that these are rolling out in the grey market only

I should certainly say so. These should be showing up at well-known LCDHs and other trusted shops first. No distributor would wholesale these at this point (or ever in this new era.) Vendors would be begging for them. I'm sure many have had standing orders for hundreds of boxes for several years. 

Not to mention at least one of the vendors listing them has been the source of some recent controversy in this very area. I wouldn't touch these with a ten foot pole. 

9 hours ago, LizardGizmo said:

I was told in March by the Cohiba production manager in Cuba that these cigars were produced around the launch ~4 years ago in small quantities - less than 15 boxes - and that they haven't been produced at all since that time.

My sources have told me relatively small amounts have been produced for VIPs for the last year or two and they haven't gone to distributors. Your source may be more accurate but I'll try and get some more information when I'm there next week.

On 2/24/2022 at 11:36 PM, Hammer Smokin' said:

well a robusto is $25 a cigar these days. This is an extra inch (or 1/6th longer). Call it $30 bucks a cigar. So $300 for the box of 10?

In reality I suspect $450 to $500 for a box of ten. 

Oh, how young and innocent we all were in early 2022! 

[PigFish]

Yawn 🥱 

proof positive, smoking Cuban cigars makes you stupid!

[ATGroom]

Don't recall seeing this thread when it was posted, but the box in the original pics is a certain fake. It almost could be the exact one that eventually wound up in my hands, as that also had the crunchy thick wooden sheet over the top, and bands placed too low on the cigars and sloping gradually lower from left to right. Definitely from the same source.

[NSXCIGAR]

3 minutes ago, ATGroom said:

crunchy thick wooden sheet over the top,

Is the other divider sheet on the right from some other legit Cohiba box for reference? 

Yes, the cedar sheet has become one of the best unintended security features. The wrappers certainly look the part but the band placement and cigar length (although could it be variation in the flatness of the box lining?) is just pitiful. 

As I've said before it's incredible how the fakers get the tough things right but the easy things wrong. 

[ATGroom]

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Is the other divider sheet on the right from some other legit Cohiba box for reference? 

Yes, that's a sheet from a legit lanceros box.

[gormag38]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:17 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

The wrappers certainly look the part

I thought the same exact thing. Some might nice looking wrappers. Even if they are fugazi. 

On 7/8/2023 at 10:17 PM, NSXCIGAR said:

s I've said before it's incredible how the fakers get the tough things right but the easy things wrong. 

Lets hope they never learn....otherwise alot of people would truly be screwed. It's already tough enough to spot some of these high end fakes. Lucky for me (I think) my pocket book won't allow me to even throw my hat in that game. 

[helix]

The whole thing  is just obscene . So miss perusing Havana shops pre-covid and buying Gems for $100-$300 a box. 😖

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, gormag38 said:

I thought the same exact thing. Some might nice looking wrappers. Even if they are fugazi. 

Lets hope they never learn....otherwise alot of people would truly be screwed. It's already tough enough to spot some of these high end fakes. Lucky for me (I think) my pocket book won't allow me to even throw my hat in that game. 

The mistakes may be on purpose  Like fake landmarks on a map as a "trademark".  

The perpetrators of such frauds don't want to end up buying their own fakes.

[MrBirdman]

On 7/9/2023 at 4:09 AM, ATGroom said:

Don't recall seeing this thread when it was posted, but the box in the original pics is a certain fake. It almost could be the exact one that eventually wound up in my hands, as that also had the crunchy thick wooden sheet over the top, and bands placed too low on the cigars and sloping gradually lower from left to right. Definitely from the same source.

This led me to revisit the Majetuosos scam video, and at this point it strikes me that fakers box-making skills are so sophisticated that I have to wonder where they are getting them from. I know skilled woodworkers and they can’t cook up nearly perfect replicas in their basement. Habanos themselves have to outsource production of these LE boxes, I believe.

On 7/9/2023 at 4:17 AM, NSXCIGAR said:

As I've said before it's incredible how the fakers get the tough things right but the easy things wrong. 

It never ceases to amaze me - think of the effort involved with recreating that Majetuosos box. It’s like crafting a perfect Rolex replica with the numbers in the wrong order on the dial. Unfortunately this means the market is relying on easily fixed slip ups to identify fakes. Without chain of custody RFD inside each box or some other more secure tracking system, I don’t see how anyone can buy Cohiba with confidence anywhere but distributor-owned retail outlets and non-grey market retailers with impeccable credentials (FOH, Fox, Davidoff, etc). IIRC we had a post a few months ago about an LCDH selling fakes. 

It’s madness.

[bates40]

Simple solution- don't buy Cohibas. 

[Corylax18]

6 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

This led me to revisit the Majetuosos scam video, and at this point it strikes me that fakers box-making skills are so sophisticated that I have to wonder where they are getting them from. I know skilled woodworkers and they can’t cook up nearly perfect replicas in their basement. Habanos themselves have to outsource production of these LE boxes, I believe.

Habanos hasn't made the majority of their bands or packaging for decades, that's not a secret. A new box production factory opened in the last few years in Havana, but it only makes the simplest formats and probably in very low quantities. 

There have always been pretty good fakes out there, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if all of HSA's IP regarding bands, boxes, etc. Snuck out a back door in Hong Kong. Behike boxes, and Bands are literally available by the hundreds on websites like alibaba. Probably manufactured from the same specs and design documents as the originals. There's no reason that the same thing wouldn't be happening with boxes that sell for even more than BHKs. The Chinese have decades of experience stealing IP and making like for like copies of all sorts of things, cigar boxes are simple compared to many of the things they've copied in the past. 

[ATGroom]

1 hour ago, Corylax18 said:

Habanos hasn't made the majority of their bands or packaging for decades, that's not a secret. A new box production factory opened in the last few years in Havana, but it only makes the simplest formats and probably in very low quantities. 

7 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

This led me to revisit the Majetuosos scam video, and at this point it strikes me that fakers box-making skills are so sophisticated that I have to wonder where they are getting them from. I know skilled woodworkers and they can’t cook up nearly perfect replicas in their basement. Habanos themselves have to outsource production of these LE boxes, I believe

The Majetuosos boxes were made by Humidif in their factory in China. I would think for those fakes the boxes probably came from the same factory or one very close to it.

The fit and finish on the Novodosos boxes in this thread is actually very shonky, of a similar level to the Montecristo Supremos, QdO Senadores etc, which were manufactured in Cuba. I have heard that the reason for the delay in the Novodosos is because the first batch of Cuban boxes weren't good enough, so they decided to outsource instead. The rejected Cuban boxes were stolen and became these fakes. No idea of the truth of that.

[NSXCIGAR]

14 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Unfortunately this means the market is relying on easily fixed slip ups to identify fakes.

Exactly. These careless mistakes mean that they're capable of perfect or prefect enough fakes.

And you're right, outside of the 100% trusted vendors like Rob, Davidoff, Fox, Gerard etc. I would absolutely not feel comfortable buying any Cohiba, Trini or ultra premium release. And only Rob's prices aren't insane. 

I don't think the boxes themselves are that difficult to duplicate. If effort is made anything can be duplicated in China. I think any serious box or humidor maker would probably laugh at the quality of these HSA products. China can make extremely high quality items--we're just not used to seeing it. 

Provenance and reputation are everything these days. I would rely on that more than any so-called security feature. Untill a NFT or RFID solution is developed (trial run on the Siglo de Oro) that's all there is.