Bad experiences at your local B&M/Lounge

[Greenhorn2]

9 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

The BYOB thing is really more of a Government oversite thing. Its can be very difficult and expensive to obtain a liquor license (license to resell alcohol) in many parts of the country. There are even, technically, still some "dry" counties here in the US Mostly in Idaho and the South. Most lounges would love to get the markup from liquor sales, but just cant.

But, here in Colorado, I've gotten my hand slapped for bringing in my own Cuban rum to establishments before. If someone saw it being served, they could say that the bar provided it and is breaking the law. Then they loose their license.

We cant all agree on anything over here, this is just another one of those things. 🙂

Yeah, a guy in a small North Carolina town opened a restaurant with a liquor license. He told me(don't know if he was truthful or not) his liquor license was 10 grand so I can see the BYOB scenario. 

[Edicion]

At the end of the day, in this case it was a cigar lounge but it could have been any type of business, really, they didn't provide a good experience and offered poor customer service, they should go back to the drawing board and train the staff better to ensure all clients are at least fairly and respectfully treated. 

From a business perspective, the staff also lack basic selling or even interpersonal skills, so they lost an opportunity to engage and chat with a new potential client that could have become a regular patron. Their loss is someone else's gain.

 

[Corylax18]

16 hours ago, dominattorney said:

Apologies for taking this response out of order, but no more smoking lounge at Del Friscos?  You're killing me.  My wife and I used to love that place back when I lived in Castle Rock.  We'd hit that place up every Wednesday night where there was this bomb jazz trio with a vocalist who could just SANG.  The burgers you could get in there were spectacular as well.  We made a mental note to do it again soon while driving to the airport for our scheduled vacation.  That's a real shame. 

Going back to the beginning, it's not just the Springs.  (Not actionable legal advice because I don't care that much to take the time here to be 100% accurate, but close enough for our purposes here) The Colorado Clean Indoor Air Act (CRS 25-14-204) prohibits smoking in most indoor places.  There is an exception for a cigar-bar, but that is defined in CRS 25-14-203 as a bar that, as of the end of 2005, made at least 5% of its revenue from the sale of tobacco products.  If you don't meet that definition, you're not a cigar bar. Also, if you have an off year and don't make 5% or 50K from the sale of tobacco (or renting on site humidors) you lose the classification for good and its no longer legal to smoke there.  And CRS 25-14-204 prohibits smoking in regular bars, and pretty much everywhere else (including museums--unclear how that ever came up, mostly because Colorado has for crap museums on average, not because it wouldn't be sweet to fire up a Lusi and take in a Rembrandt). 

So, when they passed the Act, there were only a few places that met the definition of cigar-bar.  I know the place you're referring to in your response above, and also find that place to be pretty nice when I'm in the area.   But it's my understanding that it is grandfathered in--though maybe it gets around that issue by having the glass wall you described, not 100% sure.  So was Del Friscos.  I've heard Shanahans is as well but I don't know for sure.  Oddly, Shotgun Willies was also, or was but they moved locations (see also that the CIAA prohibits a cigar bar from expanding its size or changing locations or it will no longer be classified as such and then you can't smoke there anymore).  "The Dirty"--what we called the Castle Rock Bar and Grill, used to be an exception, but they inexplicably decided to give up the classification and ban smoking there.  There are vanishingly few places in Colorado that retain the ability to both serve alcohol and allow you to smoke inside. 

The other obvious exception is for a tobacco store, which is why you can smoke in a cigar shop.  That's where things get annoying.  I know this because I tilted at windmills on behalf of a few friends who wanted to start a cigar bar in Castle Rock near the new expanded Outlet Mall.  Would have been a great idea, and made money hand over fist as you could drop your wife off with a credit card on Sunday and grab a few beers/malts while you catch the game.  Everyone wins.  But there is no way around the nanny state, sadly.  The exception we (I--pro bono I may add) explored was the social club exception, another potential exception, because it's not explicitly disallowed, and would not be a place of employment, necessarily (also not allowed under the Act).  However, that's where I hit a wall with the liquor board, which is another ball of wax.  It CANNOT be done.  You can not open a cigar lounge that serves alcohol in any fashion that is generally open to the public.  Or you can't for very long before someone finds out and you get shut down.  That's Colorado.  Purple we are, liberal we lean. 

That leaves but one, lone option.  Be a social club that sells cigars.  Members only, and guests allowed with members.  That way members can bring their own alcohol and it appears to be in compliance with the law.  At least, that's where I left off 7 years ago when I last dived deep into the cesspool that is the governmental regulation of our fine hobby.  The problems there are obvious--you'd make more money by far if you could sell booze or food, and you lose out by allowing people to bring their own--but it's the only way to run the show if you're in it for the long haul and don't have a grandfathered cigar-bar. 

On a closing note, I'd love to hear what places you usually frequent in CO.  I'm mostly down in the southland, so I don't get up to the Metro Area much, but my recollection is Churchills at the Brown Palace is still a neat place to hit if you can get a table.  Used to know a member so it wasn't a problem, but he moved to New Zealand and I didn't want to buy him out of his locker. 

 

I haven't looked at it nearly as in depth as you. Haha. I knew most of the basics you described above, but not nearly that level of detail. Meanwhile, weed hotels are on there way. Which I'm fine with, but the hypocrisy is really hard to process. 

I'll send you a PM on smoking spots, we've lost a few great spots over the last couple years. 

[dominattorney]

36 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I haven't looked at it nearly as in depth as you. Haha. I knew most of the basics you described above, but not nearly that level of detail. Meanwhile, weed hotels are on there way. Which I'm fine with, but the hypocrisy is really hard to process. 

I'll send you a PM on smoking spots, we've lost a few great spots over the last couple years. 

Looking forward to it. Weed hotels will work as a business model better than a cigar lounge/bar. The weed can be sold at a ridiculous premium allowing the business owner to make money. You can also sell the room at a premium for overnight stays to out of state stoners. 

[Corylax18]

Just now, dominattorney said:

Looking forward to it. Weed hotels will work as a business model better than a cigar lounge/bar. The weed can be sold at a ridiculous premium allowing the business owner to make money. You can also sell the room at a premium for overnight stays to out of state stoners. 

Commercially farmed weed is almost free at this point. Its astounding how high the taxes and markups are now. 

You're right, it will definitely work, many of them will work concurrently.

The article below has some astounding numbers. $423 million in tax revenue, just last year.  If the government could make almost 2 billion a decade on tax revenue from Cigars, I'm sure they would be much more relaxed towards them as well. 

https://www.9news.com/article/money/marijuana-tax-2021/73-f66791e9-35da-4018-a41d-2a09470707e4

[SigmundChurchill]

I recently had a negative experience at the cigar lounge I frequent.  I wrote this letter to the CEO (with names x'ed out)...

Quote

Hello XXXXX,

I am writing you as a long time customer of XXXXX Lounge for the past 20+ years.  I was in the lounge today enjoying a cigar, when XXXXX asked me what I would like to drink.  I asked her for a bottle of San Pellegrino.  As she walked away, I realized  forgot my wallet.  I told her I forgot my wallet, and asked if I can pay with Apple Pay.  She said they don't accept Apple Pay, so I told her I would have to cancel the drink.  She replied by saying in a harsh tone that I will have to leave if I don't order a drink.  

As a long time customer who is always polite, who always tips north of 20% on meals, and often as much as 100% if I just order a drink or two,  in spite of the fact that she does not particularly provide the best service, often disappearing for very long periods of time.  I was dumbfounded that she would so harshly eject me from the place where I have spent so much time and money over the last couple of decades.  

I understand that there are rules, but I cant believe this is the best way to enforce them.  I’m not sure what I expect by writing this email, but as CEO, I thought at the very least I should let you know my feelings about what I consider to be a failure of customer service and basic decency towards long time, regular customers.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX XXXXXX, MD

I immediately got a very apologetic letter back from the CEO of the corporation that owns the lounge.  The next time I went to the lounge, they wouldn't let me pay for my food and drinks.  And that waitress no longer works there.  I feel bad that she lost her job, but apparently, my complaint was just one of several.  This particular waitress was nuts, as @ElJavi76 can attest.  And as it turns out, they do accept Apple Pay.  The waitress just wanted to be an ass with a power trip.

It is otherwise a great lounge.  You can smoke as many of your own cigars as you like, without buying anything and no cutting fee.  And you can bring your own food/drink if you are there before noon, when the kitchen and bar open.  I dont buy any cigars there but when I need something like a cutter or lighter, I always make sure to buy it there even though I know I can probably get a better deal online.

[traveller]

15 hours ago, Greenhorn2 said:

Yeah, a guy in a small North Carolina town opened a restaurant with a liquor license. He told me(don't know if he was truthful or not) his liquor license was 10 grand so I can see the BYOB scenario. 

10K depending on the state or city might even be on the low side of things, liquor licenses can cost a whole hell of a lot in the states.

[BrightonCorgi]

3 hours ago, dominattorney said:

Looking forward to it. Weed hotels will work as a business model better than a cigar lounge/bar. The weed can be sold at a ridiculous premium allowing the business owner to make money. You can also sell the room at a premium for overnight stays to out of state stoners. 

Weed on the retail level does not make a lot of profit.  It is not supposed to.  Profits from retail sales are taxed quite high.  All the profit is made on wholesale.  Retail is supposed to just break even.

[dominattorney]

24 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Weed on the retail level does not make a lot of profit.  It is not supposed to.  Profits from retail sales are taxed quite high.  All the profit is made on wholesale.  Retail is supposed to just break even.

I concur. That's why these business models will work like gangbusters. You sell a place to smoke weed, not necessarily the weed. 

[Corylax18]

44 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Weed on the retail level does not make a lot of profit.  It is not supposed to.  Profits from retail sales are taxed quite high.  All the profit is made on wholesale.  Retail is supposed to just break even.

25% on "wholesale", and 35% on Recreational Retail sales her in CO. Its a bit less for Medical, but still high.  

[ElJavi76]

4 hours ago, SigmundChurchill said:

I recently had a negative experience at the cigar lounge I frequent.  I wrote this letter to the CEO (with names x'ed out)...

I immediately got a very apologetic letter back from the CEO of the corporation that owns the lounge.  The next time I went to the lounge, they wouldn't let me pay for my food and drinks.  And that waitress no longer works there.  I feel bad that she lost her job, but apparently, my complaint was just one of several.  This particular waitress was nuts, as @ElJavi76 can attest.  And as it turns out, they do accept Apple Pay.  The waitress just wanted to be an ass with a power trip.

It is otherwise a great lounge.  You can smoke as many of your own cigars as you like, without buying anything and no cutting fee.  And you can bring your own food/drink if you are there before noon, when the kitchen and bar open.  I dont buy any cigars there but when I need something like a cutter or lighter, I always make sure to buy it there even though I know I can probably get a better deal online.

My favorite part of that bad experience for me personally was the waitress handling my coffee mug. As Elliott said, we can bring our own drinks before noon. We’re there most weekend mornings at 10 am. I brought my Yeti mug with the slider lid, full of coffee. She came over to us doing her customary walk by at noon and she put her bare hands on my coffee lid and closed it saying Javi you know no outside drink after 12. She then caught herself saying I’m sorry I touched your mug. Elliott and I looked at each other like, is she crazy? I’m drinking out of the mug and you touch it? In this day and age of COVID and germophobia? 
 

I too am sorry that she lost her job but that’s not good customer service. A bit of an overreach if you ask me. She’d walk by and start aggressively rearranging the furniture when she came in, while we were sitting on them. A bit too eager for my taste. Other than the former employee the place is top notch. 

[Hammer Smokin']

6 hours ago, dominattorney said:

Looking forward to it. Weed hotels will work as a business model better than a cigar lounge/bar. The weed can be sold at a ridiculous premium allowing the business owner to make money. You can also sell the room at a premium for overnight stays to out of state stoners. 

interestingly enough, here in Ontario we have so many weed stores that the supply is actually outweighing the demand. Costs are reducing by the month. To give an idea on %'s, it costs half the price for an ounce of pot compared to what it did when things legalized. Furtherly interesting, the price is just over 1/3rd for an ounce of pot than what it was prior to legalization. 

 

[tjkoala]

I usually know more about the cigars at my local shop than the people who actually work there so I 100% understand how annoying some shop employees can be. With that being said, I frequent a few local shops and have always gotten on first name basis with the managers & staff (generally by bringing stuff that's hard to find to share with them every once in a while). Overall it's a cost of doing business and give them enough time and be a good customer and as long as you're buying they tend to not care. 

[Joeyjojo]

I guess I'm pretty lucky living near London that my main lounge experiences are JJ Fox and the old 1A Dunhill shop, where it doesn't matter if your a millionaire or just a working stiff in jeans and a t-shirt, you are treated and looked after the same way.  

From an outsiders perspective (from what I've heard 2nd hand) there seems to be in the US with certain lounges/cigar shops a similar mentality you get from boutique record/music instrument shops where instead of the employee finding out what the customer wants/enjoys, you get some muso trying to foist some expensive niche items onto a customer and scoffing at them if they ask for something that isn't cool, rare or expensive enough.   

I always thought the joy of cigar lounges is the egalitarian nature of them. It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from or what you're smoking, we are all enjoying the hobby in our own way and sharing in the experience.  

[atzemis]

Sounds like a typical NYC experience 😉.

I have had pretty good experiences with the staff at the Davidoff store on 57th street. Never smoked in there but seemed like a comfortable lounge. 

[jonahs_whale]

9 hours ago, atzemis said:

Sounds like a typical NYC experience 😉.

I have had pretty good experiences with the staff at the Davidoff store on 57th street. Never smoked in there but seemed like a comfortable lounge. 

There aren't many lounges left to choose from. haven't stopped by the Davidoff though. I kinda figured they'd be the most snobby and overall highest prices but can't hurt to check them out. 

FYI the shop i was referring to was <Moderated>. I've always had good experiences at Soho Lounge. just a tad out of the way though 

[BrightonCorgi]

11 hours ago, Psiman said:

here in L.A. me and other guys got thrown out of a cigar lounge for talking about cigars that they didn't carry and it pissed off the person working there and they threw us out because he didn't like hearing about cigars they don't have or carry. We were talking about the cheapy Davidoff seconds called 3x3 that are in tubos and super cheap. I figure that he figured we knew that Davidoff's are not worth $30 a piece and some other people would get informed on the 3x3's because we were in a conversation about them and this guy butted in and was very irate. Not surprised in L.A. for this to happen

Nothing like owning or working at the most niche of businesses and throw out a dwindling customer base because of your own vanity.  He could've turned that around into additional sales, but decided to be reactionary and predatory.

[Puros Y Vino]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Nothing like owning or working at the most niche of businesses and throw out a dwindling customer base because of your own vanity.  He could've turned that around into additional sales, but decided to be reactionary and predatory.

Seriously. Many of us would jump at the opportunity to run a legal, cigar lounge.  Some people are their own worst enemy.  This is not solely relegated to this hobby though. I see it elsewhere. 

 

[Meesterjojo]

I'm not even sure how to get out of a cigar lounge for under $100. Those and liquor stores just slay my wallet. And I don't drink or smoke that much, but dangit I'm like a kid in a candy store. 

[Duxnutz]

2 hours ago, Psiman said:

Los Angeles area is flooded now in cigar lounges over the past 5 to 10 years and in the last 2 or 3 years 5 or new ones have popped up that I know about and I can't figure out why there are so many and few bring anything to the table. There are probably 8 cigar lounges on Ventura blvd. from Studio City to Woodland Hills and I could go on and on. It's strange and over the last few years a bunch of private cigar lounges have popped up and most aren't as nice as non private  lounges. Within a 3 mile radius I have at least 4 lounges I can go to and rarely go to any. Cigars gravitate A holes to the extreme in Los Angeles with their massive egos and cheap big talk and I prefer to not be subjected to it. You would think that would be reason enough for private lounges but they are just as bad or maybe worse because it really gravitates those that think they are somebody. The best was the hotel patios that allowed cigar smoking but they are almost all gone. The SLS and the Continental are the only 2 I know that are left and the SLS gravitates super A hole Beverly Hills jerk offs and Hollywood D bags

Back when we used to stay up that way quite frequently, I enjoyed Woodland Hills Cigar Co. Great place. 
 

I’m not even sure we have a lounge here (Honolulu, HI) anymore. The one place was pretty run down and didn’t have that great a selection, plus located in a weird spot. I’d love to open a lounge but this is a very anti business and expensive state to do business in. 

[cgoodrich]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:25 AM, Corylax18 said:

The BYOB thing is really more of a Government oversite thing. Its can be very difficult and expensive to obtain a liquor license (license to resell alcohol) in many parts of the country. There are even, technically, still some "dry" counties here in the US Mostly in Idaho and the South. Most lounges would love to get the markup from liquor sales, but just cant.

But, here in Colorado, I've gotten my hand slapped for bringing in my own Cuban rum to establishments before. If someone saw it being served, they could say that the bar provided it and is breaking the law. Then they loose their license.

We cant all agree on anything over here, this is just another one of those things. 🙂

Sorry to correct you @Corylax18, but there are zero dry areas in Idaho (thankfully). That is where I call home. You can’t buy liquor on Sundays (except in a bar) because all is sold through a state run store.

[SigmundChurchill]

On 1/20/2022 at 5:02 PM, ElJavi76 said:

My favorite part of that bad experience for me personally was the waitress handling my coffee mug. As Elliott said, we can bring our own drinks before noon. We’re there most weekend mornings at 10 am. I brought my Yeti mug with the slider lid, full of coffee. She came over to us doing her customary walk by at noon and she put her bare hands on my coffee lid and closed it saying Javi you know no outside drink after 12. She then caught herself saying I’m sorry I touched your mug. Elliott and I looked at each other like, is she crazy? I’m drinking out of the mug and you touch it? In this day and age of COVID and germophobia? 
 

I too am sorry that she lost her job but that’s not good customer service. A bit of an overreach if you ask me. She’d walk by and start aggressively rearranging the furniture when she came in, while we were sitting on them. A bit too eager for my taste. Other than the former employee the place is top notch. 

I almost lost my shit when she started moving your chair with you still sitting in it.  The look of surprise on your face was hysterical.  🤣

[Corylax18]

2 hours ago, cgoodrich said:

Sorry to correct you @Corylax18, but there are zero dry areas in Idaho (thankfully). That is where I call home. You can’t buy liquor on Sundays (except in a bar) because all is sold through a state run store.

That's great news. Did it change recently? I was in Rexburg for a week in 2016 or 2017 and I went to an Applebee's or something for dinner one night and the waitress told me it was a dry county. Maybe her spidey sense was tingling. Haha. 

[cgoodrich]

1 hour ago, Corylax18 said:

That's great news. Did it change recently? I was in Rexburg for a week in 2016 or 2017 and I went to an Applebee's or something for dinner one night and the waitress told me it was a dry county. Maybe her spidey sense was tingling. Haha. 

Franklin and Madison county prohibit mixed drinks with liquor to be sold in restaurants. Rexburg is in Madison County. These laws are “old school” Mormon influenced laws. Not condemning in any way, just explaining the root of many laws in Idaho, especially the southeast.

[BrightonCorgi]

There are dry towns in Massachusetts including on Martha's Vineyard.