Tipping....should they be shared?

[El Presidente]

Interesting story.

In Oz we generally tip for exceptional service. it is not compulsory.

On Saturday at our team Christmas party, we left a great cash tip to our waiter Trent.  I have no idea if it was shared or not and that is up to him once I pass it on.  I always tip in cash and always to the service provider/s directly. 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/waitress-sacked-after-being-given-6000-tip/news-story/acabeadf08d80cf25abd800ed81ad7f7

Waitress sacked after being given $6000 tip

A waitress handed a whopping tip by a stranger has been fired – after her boss ordered her to share it with her colleagues.

[NSXCIGAR]

Some restaurants do pool tips. High quality waitstaff typically won't work in these establishments as it hurts them most. In the US, outstanding service is often handsomely rewarded (20-25%) while bad service can result in no tip. 

In this case the waitress claims pooling of tips was not the standard practice of the establishment: ...Brandt said, restaurant managers told her she’d have to split the tip with all of her co-workers – something she claims hasn’t happened in the three-and-a-half years she has worked there.

If this is the case, she may have a wrongful termination cause of action. 

[MrBirdman]

Tips at most establishments are often split, where applicable, with the bus boy and other service staff (like the bartender) who contribute to a table’s meal. The actual server takes home the lion’s share, however. 

[mprach024]

Not exactly hard to find a waitress gig right now since every restaurant can’t find people.  I’d keep the cash and just go somewhere else.  

[riderpride]

26 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

Tips at most establishments are often split, where applicable, with the bus boy and other service staff (like the bartender) who contribute to a table’s meal. The actual server takes home the lion’s share, however. 

Agreed.

Hard to provide a level of service worthy of that without the work of a hostess, bartenders and kitchen staff.  Even if tipouts aren't cusomary, how does one make that and not offer to hand something out voluntarily as a sign of appreciation? 

I ask as a former server in the restaurant industry while in university 

[RedLantern]

As a relatively recent (20011-2019) professional waiter in the U.S., I have a lot of thoughts on this. 

1. The restaurant industry is a broken system. 

2. People enter employment in that system with full knowledge of its faults.

3. If I was a "back of the house" (not customer facing) employee, I would be annoyed at the income inequity within the restaurant. 

4. As a server, I justified this inequity because A. see #2 and B. I was engaged in a combination of sales and emotional labor, which is skilled and degrading at times. The analogy I always looked to was other sales positions - to my knowledge they aren't usually asked to split commissions with manufacturing employees of the same company.

5. I made sure back of house staff ALWAYS gets first dibs on any in-kind windfalls, leftover food/wine/liquor from corporate functions or inventory shifts

6. To the extent that back of the house staff bails you the server out of a mistake - rushing a forgotten order, remaking something that you forgot to modify correctly, you should tip them, or at least buy them a drink after work. 

7. To the extent a waiter doesn't want to tip out the back of the house, you better not complain about the kitchen staff. You get what you pay for.

8. If you get a great tip or a great table. Keep it to yourself if you're not going to share the wealth. Nobody wants to hear your good news.

9. So glad I'm out of that industry!

[westg]

Well here in West Australia the service / customer service is the worst in the world.. unbelievably poor. Tip love to , not in this state. 

[Fuzz]

Honestly, I've never been comfortable with the whole tipping is mandatory thing. Tipping should be for exceptional service, not to supplement a person's income (most likely undeclared) because restaurants won't pay a fair wage. That BS that if restaurants paid a fair wage, then prices would go up just doesn't hold water. I'm already paying 10-15% more by tipping, so what's the difference if that 10-15% is included in the price?

As for splitting tips amongst all staff, I can see arguments for both sides. Either way, it sucks.

[La_Tigre]

Have worked both sides. To the extent that all staff are responsible for that tip being produced, it should be shared. And the percentages are not off based on 1% to the bus boy and hostess / 2% to the cook staff. Should be a fair shake to tip the ACTUAL tip percentage not based on the overall bill coming straight out of the server’s money. People suck and leave $1 on $1000 checks…. But then people suck so servers underreport the tips they receive and bone their support staff all the same…

[LordAnubis]

I think the whole tipping thing is a sham... yes i understand the nature of it in America, but as has already been said, it's a broken system. I feel it is particularly high of ones self to think they provided all the service to make the night of the patrons. It's a team effort, everyone from the suppliers, managers, cleaners, kitchen staff, bar staff and server make for an excellent experience, not just one person and definetly no weighting with any one particular person in the chain.

If you walked into a restaurant and there was a cockroack on the floor, would it be unfair to tip the waitress poorly because of the cockroah? If the steak wasnt cooked right would it be unfair to tip the waitress lower?

In an ideal world you'd fill out a survey and rank everything like hygiene, food quality, freshness, management and waiting... and then divide the tips accordingly.

 

[El Presidente]

38 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

I think the whole tipping thing is a sham...

 

.....and that is why you will continue to get so little attention at Hooters 

[Cigarsmoker81]

I used to be against tipping until I noticed the big difference in service quality between countries that make it mandatory vs those that don’t. I’m happy to pay extra for good service. Should it be shared? In the case above no as it’s not what the waiter agreed to when he/she joined and it’s not the practice but in general yes as it takes a whole team to deliver a good meal and service. 
 

I’m  against however fine dining restaurant expecting the client to pay 20% of ridiculously high price as the absolute number is too high to justify ( you could be expected  to pay 50-100 dollars per person in some of those establishments ) if a client wishes to pay more than its ok but it’s not expected 

[Nino]

1 hour ago, Cigarsmoker81 said:

I used to be against tipping until I noticed the big difference in service quality between countries that make it mandatory vs those that don’t. I’m happy to pay extra for good service.

 

Can you expand on the countries ?

We don't have mandatory tipping in Europe and enjoy a high degree of service that is natural without the fake superficial phony drama of mandatory ransom .... that to me is mandatory tipping : ransom.

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, Lord Verulam said:

Have you ever worked in a restaurant or bar ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I have not. But it doesn't make my view invalid. I have been to plenty of countries where tipping is not customary, and the service is the same, if not better. Pay the staff a proper wage and don't expect the patron making up the difference.

[AndrewNR]

There's so many angles on this.. 

I think the industry needs an overhaul but beyond that I think if your indulging in the service industry and experience quality food or service you should where appropriate recognise that and reward it. 

How that's done is complicated but should be built in via transparent payments. 

Mostly.. I think the house should keep its hands out of the tip jar. 

[Chibearsv]

3 hours ago, Nino said:

Can you expand on the countries ?

We don't have mandatory tipping in Europe and enjoy a high degree of service that is natural without the fake superficial phony drama of mandatory ransom .... that to me is mandatory tipping : ransom.

I asked a server in Switzerland about tipping and he asked "Why would you tip me?  This is my job.".  That attitude is certainly a great start to being a great server.  

[SCgarman]

3 hours ago, Fuzz said:

No, I have not. But it doesn't make my view invalid. I have been to plenty of countries where tipping is not customary, and the service is the same, if not better. Pay the staff a proper wage and don't expect the patron making up the difference.

In the USA tips are how they make their money. Paid an extremely low hourly wage. It will never change as it's always been this way here in my country. If a customer wishes to "gift" his server a $2,000 tip for whatever reason, that is none of the business of the other workers in the restaurant. The fact that a server was terminated from her job upon receiving a gracious gift is utterly disgusting. Especially two weeks before Christmas and new years. You would think after the COVID lockdowns that restaurants would learn to treat employees better. Especially with the severe worker shortage here in the industry. 

[99call]

I love Japan,  best service in the world......and tipping is deemed to be offensive

Tipping is everything thats wrong with Capitalism.  people paid a crappy wage, and forced to kowtow in all degree's of servility to gain a few extra coins.  I find it demeaning a sad. 

I think employers should motivate their staff by treating them well, paying them properly.  I'm not saying tipping should not exist,  I enjoy giving generous tips for excellent service, but this shouldn't be something people depend on.    I hate fake smiles, and desperation, and always see that as bad service.

[Fuzz]

3 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

In the USA tips are how they make their money. Paid an extremely low hourly wage. It will never change as it's always been this way here in my country. If a customer wishes to "gift" his server a $2,000 tip for whatever reason, that is none of the business of the other workers in the restaurant. The fact that a server was terminated for her job upon receiving a gracious gift is utterly disgusting. Especially two weeks before Christmas and new years. You would think after the COVID lockdowns that restaurants would learn to treat employees better. Especially with the severe worker shortage here in the industry. 

Always been that way.... learn to treat employees better...

You know the problem and the solution. Just because it has always been that way doesn't mean it should stay that way.

[SCgarman]

2 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Always been that way.... learn to treat employees better...

You know the problem and the solution. Just because it has always been that way doesn't mean it should stay that way.

I agree. But nobody cares about my opinion. 

[Nino]

49 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

I asked a server in Switzerland about tipping and he asked "Why would you tip me?  This is my job.".  That attitude is certainly a great start to being a great server.  

 

9 minutes ago, 99call said:

I love Japan,  best service in the world......and tipping is deemed to be offensive

 

I was going to mention Switzerland as example of the best service in the world - with no mandatory tipping, just the highest salaries paid and the best training provided.

Same in Japan and all over Europe and anywhere else. I see the anomaly being the US with a broken system. It works well anywhere else.

[99call]

6 minutes ago, Nino said:

I see the anomaly being the US with a broken system. It works well anywhere else.

In the UK, we are as thick as pig shit.   In the last 10 years managed to come up with the following combination

- Terrible pay

- Terrible service

- A tipping culture where nobody knows the rules, and overcompensates by tipping well, even when they shouldn't 

[anacostiakat]

I can't remember the last time I was somewhere here where there was mandatory tipping.  Or putting the tip inclusive on the bill.  LOL  I generally tip 20% - 25% for good to great service.  If the service is really bad then you don't get no tip.  I have to add that rarely do I experience bad service though.

[RedLantern]

7 hours ago, LordAnubis said:

I think the whole tipping thing is a sham... yes i understand the nature of it in America, but as has already been said, it's a broken system. I feel it is particularly high of ones self to think they provided all the service to make the night of the patrons. It's a team effort, everyone from the suppliers, managers, cleaners, kitchen staff, bar staff and server make for an excellent experience, not just one person and definetly no weighting with any one particular person in the chain.

If you walked into a restaurant and there was a cockroack on the floor, would it be unfair to tip the waitress poorly because of the cockroah? If the steak wasnt cooked right would it be unfair to tip the waitress lower?

 

 

The reality is that yes, the tip is influenced by innumerable things beyond the server's direct control - from product defects, to people's subjective expectations of what a "good" seat is, to how bad traffic was on the way to dinner. However, ONE person is responsible for managing all of these expectations and pain points. A waiter is not a cashier - as stated before, a waiter is engaged in sophisticated emotional labor. They must determine the subjective expectations of the customer (admittedly more difficult in the U.S. than more monocultural societies) and reconcile those expectations with the realities of how the restaurant functions as a system. That's what the good ones do anyways. To be good at the job requires extremely high levels of emotional intelligence, intuitiveness, resourcefulness, quick thinking, creativity, humility, and conscientiousness. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

I spent just over a decade in the restaurant industry, so I feel like I can add some experience based opinions.

I worked in a number of different restaurants through my time (in Canada). Most did not have a tip pool system, although I did work in at least 2 that did. For those that didn't, the servers would typically pay out their bus people at the end of the night as a part of the recognition.

I spent most of my time as BOH (back of house), and it never bothered me if I was getting tipped out or not. What did bother me was the hilariously poor compensation against the amount of hours and work I was doing. Even after half a lifetime of jobs in various industries, I have never in my life worked as hard as I did when I was working in kitchens. I believe the average person wouldn't last half a shift in a kitchen before they'd go for cry'er in the walk-in or just walk out.

The whole tipping system is broken. But if you ask most servers, they'd rather have the tipping system than a higher hourly wage because they know the potential to walk out with several days wages in a good night is there. With that said, the entire industry is undergoing a labour revolution because they've reached their breaking point from the last two years. 

In North America the restaurant industry is broken, and it's been that way for a long, long time (longer than when I joined in the 80s).  Rampant sexual harassment, labour code violations, wage theft, drug and alcohol abuse. 

I've held the belief for a long time that we'd have a healthier society if everyone had a year or two years of compulsory service work.