third dose - from scientists

[Ken Gargett]

Just now, Foulhook said:

You are my favorite person on here to debate, it’s midnight here in the states. I’ll be sure to reply to you in the morning after I get my kids on zoom since their school is shut down right now because all 27 bus drivers that are vaccinated in their district are sick with covid........ I was hoping for a direct reply from you. In the past our friend Rob has moderated before we could reach an end. Look forward to the debate. Liberals are fun! 

i do look forward to it if rob can keep away, but if you really think i'm lumped in with liberals, you are way off. 

[mprach024]

8 minutes ago, Foulhook said:

Couldn’t agree more. But accusing those that choose to not have a mystery medicine injected into their bodies the bad guy needs some explanation.. protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated was actually spoken in seriousness! Explain that please?  Now answer the questions as to who the good guys and bad guys are. And don’t call me bro. Someone take me up on my wager? Put your money where your mouth is. I’m confident enough to do so. Are you? As long as this thread is not deleted history will prove itself in the years to come. 

so you’re ok with covid concentration camps? seriously I’m just trying to see where you all stand on these kinds of things. Remember I’m vaccinated! I remember getting that second dose on April 17th and while sitting there realizing there with 4 slots to register a shot given.... not 2... I thought hmmm they are up to something here. They know there will be more than 2 shots needed. 

FYI.. for a drug company to get FDA approval they create a drug, then finance their own clinical trials, then submit those results to the FDA for approval. The FDA uses the testing done by the drug company to decide on approval. What could go wrong there? Drug companies are honest? Political groups are honest ? Right., nothing to question there? 
 

they did this with Oxycodone and swore from the trials it was non addictive .. yeah that turned out well 

 

I apologize chief.  Won’t call you bro anymore.  As for the rest of it I stopped reading at the 5th rhetorical question and 3rd subject change.  I’m not debating you, cause I’m not sure what we are talking about anymore.  Enjoy your evening.  

[Foulhook]

Just now, Ken Gargett said:

i do look forward to it if rob can keep away, but if you really think i'm lumped in with liberals, you are way off. 

If you believe that 97% of scientists believe there is man made global warming then you are a lefty or what my friends down your way refer to as a greenie. Even if there were a consensus of that nonsense how would you fix it??? It’s a typical liberal boogy man made up thing. Libs need their boogy man. Seriously... how do you fix global warming? Maybe the billions and billions of dollars wasted on this kind of thing could be spent on something actually attainable? Like the garbage in our oceans? Maybe healthy food for the worlds poor? But global warming? Really? Is solar the solution? Electric? How do we fix this terrible boogy man? 
 

That 97 percent thing came from a student at a college here in the upper Midwest (I forget what college) that asks like 10 professors in that school if they thought the earth was warming. And 97% of those ten said yes....  very open question.. not was it man made? Not had the earth warmed before , or in X last years?  
 

So who’s covid numbers do we believe? Who are the “fact checkers”? Do you trust my fact checkers or just yours? See what the world has become? 
 

almost all scientists are paid by government grants. It’s in their best interest to keep boogy men going. If they say ya know, this global warming things isn’t really happening then poof! There goes their money. 
 

Goodnight Ken, I appreciate good debate. The world needs more of that without moderation . Limitation of free speech lately is another conversation! . I don’t much like people or even society as whole. But you’ll get my opinion unfiltered and I don’t give a shit what anyone else thinks. If you won’t hate me for being an opinionated dick I’ll extend the same courtesy to you 😉

[Ken Gargett]

6 minutes ago, Foulhook said:

If you believe that 97% of scientists believe there is man made global warming then you are a lefty or what my friends down your way refer to as a greenie. Even if there were a consensus of that nonsense how would you fix it??? It’s a typical liberal boogy man made up thing. Libs need their boogy man. Seriously... how do you fix global warming? Maybe the billions and billions of dollars wasted on this kind of thing could be spent on something actually attainable? Like the garbage in our oceans? Maybe healthy food for the worlds poor? But global warming? Really? Is solar the solution? Electric? How do we fix this terrible boogy man? 
 

That 97 percent thing came from a student at a college here in the upper Midwest (I forget what college) that asks like 10 professors in that school if they thought the earth was warming. And 97% of those ten said yes....  very open question.. not was it man made? Not had the earth warmed before , or in X last years?  
 

So who’s covid numbers do we believe? Who are the “fact checkers”? Do you trust my fact checkers or just yours? See what the world has become? 
 

almost all scientists are paid by government grants. It’s in their best interest to keep boogy men going. If they say ya know, this global warming things isn’t really happening then poof! There goes their money. 
 

Goodnight Ken, I appreciate good debate. The world needs more of that without moderation . Limitation of free speech lately is another conversation! . I don’t much like people or even society as whole. But you’ll get my opinion unfiltered and I don’t give a shit what anyone else thinks. If you won’t hate me for being an opinionated dick I’ll extend the same courtesy to you 😉

first up, i can't help what your friends might think. but if you want to go with what people who've never met me (and more than likely have never heard of me) have decided what i might be then go for your life. that would seem to me as sound a basis as what you have based everything else on. 

"It’s a typical liberal boogy man made up thing". actually, deciding to deny the reality of it is much more an extreme right boogy man thing. the first two american presidents (and we are going back in history now, so not looking at a US political fight) who i saw talking about the dangers of climate change were reagan and bush senior (they are both on video discussing it, so you can track them down). hardly typical liberals. if you think margaret thatcher (to ensure this does not become a US fight) would have stood idly by, then we are wasting time even talking. again, not sure many would have her as a liberal, although these days, who knows. thatcher was a scientist before a politician. check out the way she and reagan worked to prevent the dangers from the hole in the ozone layer. george schultz, who knew them both very well, has confirmed that both reagan and thatcher would have been all over this had it been their era. 

but you have, and hardly for the first time, tried to obscure the issue. fixing it is a very different issue to whether it exists. that said, your comment, 'billions of dollars wasted on this kind of thing could be spent on something actually attainable?' would suggest that you do recognise that it is an issue. not sure you can have it both ways. 

i have no idea how it can be reversed in total. i really doubt it can be. but if we are going down the economic path in the debate, every dollar spent today (and yes, it would surely cost many billions) probably saves a hundred times that down the track. that is when we'll see businesses and many governments finally take it seriously. when they realise the cost if they do not sort it, then we'll see action. but they'll leave it as late as they can and it will almost certainly be too late. 

as for your claim about the 97% coming out of some midwest college, utter rubbish. it really is not worth debating if you just keep making things up (or sprouting whatever the fruitbats feed you). 

i don't hate anyone for having a different opinion, provided it does not lead to violence or bigotry. i might not respect that opinion and i might even think it not worth engaging, or continuing to, but i do not hate. 

 

[Foulhook]

22 hours ago, mprach024 said:

Right.  And the vaccines give you AIDS! Ahhhhh science is so stupid, just pray the virus away.  Vaccines don’t work, Polio was a myth, bunch of pansies whining about their legs is all.  I get mumps 3 times a year and I love them!  Measles too, I order that with a side of fries!  Booooo vaccines.  Yayyyyy nonsense.  👎👎👎👎

If you’d like to quantify your first reply to me we can start there. It’s a highly intelligent reply if you believe anyone who questions the vaccines lives in a trailer park in Missouri . It appears that’s the way you received me since you directed it to my post no? A Cuban cigar cigar smoking redneck? I probably think there are tracking devices in the vaccines and follow Qanon? I still have no idea what Qanon is and I hear the left constantly spew that word. 

I don’t believe there is aids in the vaccines but I also won’t believe they are safe and effective. For one nobody can honestly say they are safe long term. Only time will prove that. And effectiveness has drastically been reduced from the original claim that they are 95% effective from catching covid all together. And only 5% chance of breakthrough.. can we agree that those claims are way off base now????????

[porkchop]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

@mprach024 was defending America in all but his last post. But even he can't deny that there are anti science anti vaccine people giving America a bad name. Almost certainly not the same people developing vaccines.

You can have good and bad in the same place or the same thing. The good doesn't make it a crime to criticize the bad.

You should at least be contributing to the fight before chirping someone who is out front leading. 

[Bijan]

24 minutes ago, porkchop said:

You should at least be contributing to the fight before chirping someone who is out front leading. 

I'm not sure of your meaning. Do you mean Canadians should contribute to fighting COVID before criticizing America?

Or someone specific in this post should contribute to the discussion?

Is the chirping America in general, or is someone specific being chirped?

If the first one Canada is manufacturing or going to manufacture an antiviral medication to treat COVID:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/merck-canada-to-manufacture-covid-19-antiviral-drug-in-canada-for-global-distribution-1.5695058

Don't know how significant. But moreover don't know how relevant. Can @Hammer Smokin' criticize aspects of America now that Canada has contributed?

[mprach024]

1 hour ago, Foulhook said:

10 professors in that school if they thought the earth was warming. And 97% of those ten said yes...

Wait……what the……wait…so 97% of 10 people?  You do know this doesn’t make any sense right?  So 9.7 people? 😂😂😂

 

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, mprach024 said:

Wait……what the……wait…so 97% of 10 people?  You do know this doesn’t make any sense right?  So 9.7 people? 😂😂😂

 

it makes as much sense as the rest of the post. 

[Bijan]

2 hours ago, porkchop said:

You should at least be contributing to the fight before chirping someone who is out front leading. 

Anyways, I didn't mean to criticize America, at least not this time. I just find it funny you picked on @mprach024 when he is usually the one defending America from us "rude" Canadians on the forum.

[porkchop]

8 hours ago, Bijan said:

I'm not sure of your meaning. Do you mean Canadians should contribute to fighting COVID before criticizing America?

If the first one Canada is manufacturing or going to manufacture an antiviral medication to treat COVID:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/merck-canada-to-manufacture-covid-19-antiviral-drug-in-canada-for-global-distribution-1.5695058

Haha you know what I mean...manufacturing, huh? Next year to the tune of $15m and 50 jobs?? After the rest of us already saved your lives with the vaccine??? If that was the best article you could find to refute, you essentially just made my point. 

Regardless, always good to keep little bros spirits up. 

6 hours ago, Bijan said:

Anyways, I didn't mean to criticize America, at least not this time. I just find it funny you picked on @mprach024 when he is usually the one defending America from us "rude" Canadians on the forum.

It is all in fun. Understanding where Canadian/Australian petulance comes from is easy. Would rather hear from an American who agrees with criticism. 

@mprach024 was not picking on you at all. Like I said, tone is tough online. 

[mprach024]

5 minutes ago, porkchop said:

@mprach024 was not picking on you at all. Like I said, tone is tough online. 

No issues here, I didn’t take it that way.  

[Cigar Surgeon]

16 minutes ago, porkchop said:

Haha you know what I mean...manufacturing, huh? Next year to the tune of $15m and 50 jobs?? After the rest of us already saved your lives with the vaccine??? If that was the best article you could find to refute, you essentially just made my point. 

Regardless, always good to keep little bros spirits up. 

It is all in fun. Understanding where Canadian/Australian petulance comes from is easy. Would rather hear from an American who agrees with criticism. 

@mprach024 was not picking on you at all. Like I said, tone is tough online. 

As the joke goes: How do you know someone is from the United States?

Oh don't worry, they'll let you know. 🤣

[Bijan]

53 minutes ago, porkchop said:

If that was the best article you could find to refute, you essentially just made my point. 

I disagree with your argument.

Even if we all agree that the US is a light unto all nations and above reproach, it doesn't mean that developing vaccines is the reason any particular criticism is wrong or ill advised.

It just happens that those two things happened together. Let's say China or Russia had developed the vaccines, would that then mean those countries are above criticism?

[Arctic Dude]

I thought the Germans developed the Pfizer vaccine; The Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran), sold under the brand name Comirnaty,^[2][4] is an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine developed by the German biotechnology company BioNTech.

[porkchop]

2 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

As the joke goes: How do you know someone is from the United States?

Oh don't worry, they'll let you know. 🤣

 

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

I disagree with your argument.

Even if we all agree that the US is a light unto all nations and above reproach, it doesn't mean that developing vaccines is the reason any particular criticism is wrong or ill advised.

It just happens that those two things happened together. Let's say China or Russia had developed the vaccines, would that then mean those countries are above criticism?

Yeh thing is they didn't develop the vaccines. Where the "white guys who speak english and didn't get to run things" are confused is just because America the country/system is better, does not mean Americans are better than any other people. 

1 hour ago, Arctic Dude said:

I thought the Germans developed the Pfizer vaccine; The Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran), sold under the brand name Comirnaty,^[2][4] is an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine developed by the German biotechnology company BioNTech.

Kudos (even if the technology was developed for decades in the US).

[mprach024]

3 hours ago, Arctic Dude said:

I thought the Germans developed the Pfizer vaccine; The Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran), sold under the brand name Comirnaty,^[2][4] is an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine developed by the German biotechnology company BioNTech.

Correct, BioNTech (Germany) partnered with Pfizer back in 2018 to develop mRNA vaccines for the flu (https://biontech.de/sites/default/files/2019-08/20180816_BioNTech-Signs-Collaboration-Agreement-with-Pfizer.pdf).  As a stock holder I remember this happening, this was cool long before Covid.
It was a joint effort and when Covid came around they just simply changed the mRNA instructions to what they were working on with the flu to incorporate the spike protein of SARSCOV2 instead.  Quite cool actually. 

Moderna’s vaccine was led by Hamilton Bennett, a 35 year old woman from Cambridge Massachusetts who ran a special Vaccines team for Moderna.  

J&Js vaccine is also not an American creation, it was created by Jannsen Vaccines based in the Netherlands that partnered with J&J much like BioNTech did with Pfizer.

Im not taking anything away from the large American pharmaceuticals as to their part in the vaccines.  Without partnering with them and getting their money, resources, access to trials, more importantly manufacturing and distribution etc these tech firms would still be injecting rats and monkeys and writing articles in journals.  But it’s a myth that the vaccines are all American created and the rest of the world didn’t contribute, it’s just not true.  

[PigFish]

As you all debate the vax thing the 1000th time... I have exercise for you.

Go to Google Patents.

Search:

The United States Of America, As Represented By The Secretary, Department Of Health And Human Services

Hmmm. Who holds, sells, assigns (to their cronies) and get royalties from all these patented pharmaceuticals? These cannot be the same people attempting to force you to take them... could they???

[PigFish]

...more fun for you!

The government (pick one) would never tell 'me' to take something in my arm that might not be good for me... They would never do that... would they???

 

 

[mprach024]

2 minutes ago, PigFish said:

...more fun for you!

The government (pick one) would never tell 'me' to take something in my arm that might not be good for me... They would never do that... would they???

 

 

Divide 4000 by 46 million, what do you get?  .0008%.  Btw 4000 is what happens every 3 days with Covid.  

Key word Mr Wallace said, 4000 allegedly. You questioned/mentioned above on who benefits.  Who benefitted in that lawsuit?  Tit for tat.

Not taking away from your point, mass hysteria has happened.  But 2 years later with Covid I think we can agree it’s not hype, at least I can’t with a sister in the ICU and have lost family members.  

I’m rarely sold on rhetoric being used in place of empirical.  I’m not trying to convince you or debate you on anything, but it’s these kinds of blanket rhetorical questions based on “I heards, I thinks, I believes” in place of facts and evidence that have muddied the narrative for all and led us to this social impasse.  That goes for both sides of the debate.

 

[Ken Gargett]

6 hours ago, porkchop said:

Haha you know what I mean...manufacturing, huh? Next year to the tune of $15m and 50 jobs?? After the rest of us already saved your lives with the vaccine??? If that was the best article you could find to refute, you essentially just made my point. 

Regardless, always good to keep little bros spirits up. 

It is all in fun. Understanding where Canadian/Australian petulance comes from is easy. Would rather hear from an American who agrees with criticism. 

@mprach024 was not picking on you at all. Like I said, tone is tough online. 

 

australian petulance! oh priceless. i understand that your posts come from the same playbook as your friend - digress, deflect, insult if necessary, do anything do avoid the issue, and fair play, australian petulance might be your best yet. i do look forward to you elaborating on that. as someone on this thread suggested, tone is difficult with the written word. allow me to assist. my tone would equate to much scoffing and eye-rolling. 

you'd rather hear from a countryman who agrees with you? shocker. i completely agree. nothing worse than a debate where someone has a different view. what is the point of that? someone starts muddying the waters with contrary opinions and where does it end? personally, the thought of learning something terrifies me. what if it led to me changing my position. cue the cold sweats. for the subtitles, tone would now be extreme sarcasm, although i suspect most non-americans probably picked that. 

as many on the forum know, i lived and worked in the States and absolutely loved it. had certain circumstances been fractionally different, i'd still be there. i am very grateful for that time and experience and also for this forum, which has led to friendships and interactions with a great many americans (with whom i may on occasion disagree but that is all fine). i'm very grateful for all this because otherwise, i might have fallen into the trap of believing that the conventional wisdom about american intelligence and arrogance applied to all americans, rather than just some. australian petulance! please do explain. 

 

[Hammer Smokin']

[porkchop]

9 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

 

australian petulance! oh priceless. i understand that your posts come from the same playbook as your friend - digress, deflect, insult if necessary, do anything do avoid the issue, and fair play, australian petulance might be your best yet. i do look forward to you elaborating on that. as someone on this thread suggested, tone is difficult with the written word. allow me to assist. my tone would equate to much scoffing and eye-rolling. 

you'd rather hear from a countryman who agrees with you? shocker. i completely agree. nothing worse than a debate where someone has a different view. what is the point of that? someone starts muddying the waters with contrary opinions and where does it end? personally, the thought of learning something terrifies me. what if it led to me changing my position. cue the cold sweats. for the subtitles, tone would now be extreme sarcasm, although i suspect most non-americans probably picked that. 

as many on the forum know, i lived and worked in the States and absolutely loved it. had certain circumstances been fractionally different, i'd still be there. i am very grateful for that time and experience and also for this forum, which has led to friendships and interactions with a great many americans (with whom i may on occasion disagree but that is all fine). i'm very grateful for all this because otherwise, i might have fallen into the trap of believing that the conventional wisdom about american intelligence and arrogance applied to all americans, rather than just some. australian petulance! please do explain. 

 

Huh? We pretty clearly disagreed...the original point was the irony of taking a potshot at America in a thread about lifesaving Covid vaccines - vaccines that America, with others, led the way on. 

On casual Can/Aus petulance toward the US - please see the below video 1:41 to approx. 2:30.

 

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, porkchop said:

Huh? We pretty clearly disagreed...the original point was the irony of taking a potshot at America in a thread about lifesaving Covid vaccines - vaccines that America, with others, led the way on. 

On casual Can/Aus petulance toward the US - please see the below video 1:41 to approx. 2:30.

 

shall we leave aside the utter absurdity of using a fictional movie about the mafia to attempt to illustrate your point - which to be honest, i really am still struggling with - are we to take it that your arrogance runs to the assumption you take care of us? please roll out the examples? i don't honestly expect you to do that because this is just more of the divert, digress etc. although i am certain that nations such as the united kingdom, new zealand, canada, ourselves and many more were grateful for your eventual involvement in the wars. granted you took a few years to join in for both of them but better late than never. 

but we await your explanation of australian petulance because i do not see it here. i know, no chance it is coming. 

if i may address another point of yours, "Yeh thing is they didn't develop the vaccines. Where the "white guys who speak english and didn't get to run things" are confused is just because America the country/system is better". not trying to highlight the absurd arrogance with which you continue to post. i would like to ask a serious question. and i mean this - have you ever travelled outside american borders? no problem of course if you have not. it is just that my experience is very much that your statements are very much the attitude of many americans who have not, but very rarely found in those who have. travelling to other countries does seem to provide a more rounded perspective. 

anyway, there is a QB debate on the washington football forum and while there are some crazy views being offered there, they are still way saner than some of the stuff here. and much more fun, so if you'll excuse me, i'll check back in later. 

[PigFish]

10 minutes ago, mprach024 said:

Divide 4000 by 46 million, what do you get?  .0008%.  Btw 4000 is what happens every 3 days with Covid.  

Key word Mr Wallace said, 4000 allegedly. You questioned/mentioned above on who benefits.  Who benefitted in that lawsuit?  Tit for tat.

Not taking away from your point, mass hysteria has happened.  But 2 years later with Covid I think we can agree it’s not hype, at least I can’t with a sister in the ICU and have lost family members.  

I’m rarely sold on rhetoric being used in place of empirical.  I’m not trying to convince you or debate you on anything, but it’s these kinds of blanket rhetorical questions based on “I heards, I thinks, I believes” in place of facts and evidence that have muddied the narrative for all and led us to this social impasse.  That goes for both sides of the debate.

 

... brother... I am just giving you data. I don't really care what people are thinking about this anymore. I am not here to make enemies over covid. Life is tough enough! No gain in this for Dr. Piggy.

BUT... since you like data!

Ever seen the result of the clinical trial that won PFizzy (not PigFish) their approval?

Read it and weep. Then do some research on why the FDA chose not to use total deaths with this particular drug. I doubt you will find it.

According to this trial, you have 0.00909% (using your math) of dying from Covid without the jab.

Let me help you with the data.

The PHizzy jab saved one life in 22K more than the placebo. So you think that this is enough to tell the world to get it???

If you are going to credit it with the one life, and jump up and down with glee, let's look at the flip-side. Look at total deaths... the indication that there might also be some harm to be had from the drug. Find the additional heart attack risk. Is that just data you don't want to take notice of? How about the 5 PHizzy chose not to put on the table.

Want to talk numbers you say? Then look at the whole picture. You chance of death during the period without the shot was 14/22000. With it 20/22000. Anything wrong here?

Now lets say your dad got sick and went to the hospital right after the jab. You felt not so good about him dying, and got an attorney because everyone on TV, from Fauci, Trump to Biden told him to get it. I am not playing favorites! Your lawyer is going to tell you that PZizzy is exempt from suit regardless of the claims (that may just be factual).

Baby, I am not fighting people about getting the shot. But something really stinks here... MHO.

More data when I have a minute.

Cheers, the Pig