Let's talk Cognac....

[El Presidente]

I have about 20 bottles of Cognac laying around work and home. All gifts over the years. 

My parents brought me up on  inexpensive  Spanish Cognac and Brandy's. Not a weekend lunch/dinner went by where a strong stove top coffee wasn't accompanied by a copa. I never liked them.

Strangely for a man who has pursued vices  like hounds on a fox..........I have never revisited Cognac/Brandy.  

On FOH zoom earlier today the subject was raised and the depth of knowledge was outstanding. 

• Who here is a lover of Cognac?
• What do you love?
• Your favourites?
• The one that you would recommend to members to try if they wished to dip their toe?
• Your thoughts on Cognac and cigars?

Over to you 

 

 

[Edicion]

I'd take calvados any day of the week and twice on Sundays over cognac. Never had a good pairing with cigars but open to be illuminated

[JohnS]

It may seem haughty to point out that Cognac is distinctive from brandy but it is. It comes from the west coast of the Cognac rural region of France and for me, there is a difference in comparison to brandy from other regions. I feel the same way about champagne. However, you can still get great brandies outside of Cognac, France and you can still get great sparkling white wines outside of Champagne, France.

In general, the margin of improvement you get in the quality of Cognac when its grade rises above XO (Extra Old - this designates a blend in which the youngest brandy is aged for at least ten years in a cask) doesn't match the increase in price, in my view. That being said, I don't bother with Cognac of a lower grade than VSOP (Very Special Old Pale - this designates a blend in which the youngest brandy is aged for at least four years in a cask).

Overall, the best Cognac for the price is Hennessy VSOP. My favourite XO Cognac is Martell. The big four houses (Martell, Remy Martin, Hennessy and Courvoisier) may account for up to 90% of worldwide sales but don't let that dissuade you from trying Cognac from other houses. I have been enamored with Camus Borderies XO and De Luze XO in the past year or two.

Remy Martin is a little different from the other houses because their cognacs utilise a blend of grapes from Grande Champagne and Petite Champagne growing areas (or crus). These Cognacs are called Fine Champagne Cognacs. De Luze is also a Fine Champagne Cognac.

It's vital that one appreciates how important is to prepare one's palate by taking in the bouquet of the Cognac prior to sipping. This means you need to take in the smell of the Cognac into your nose and then sip (not drink). You want to 'kiss' the Cognac to best enjoy it. Also, don't bother with massive Brandy Balloons. It is better to use a tulip glass.

 

[nKostyan]

Yes, yes, yes! I'm a fan of cognac, or rather it's legal for my preferences to say brandy. I have been drinking Armenian cognac for the last few years. There were many protests from the French, but this is the same Soviet heritage as "Soviet Champagne". This year Armenia signed an agreement with the European Union that within a few years it will abandon the use of the name Cognac.
I chose a small cognac factory for myself https://www.proshyan.am
My budget Cognacs for frequent use are aged 7-8 years and the price for a bottle of 0.5 liters is $ 10. The quality is excellent.
I usually smoke cigars without alcohol - for me, a high-quality Cuban cigar is self-sufficient and it does not require a pair.

[Edicion]

5 minutes ago, nKostyan said:

Yes, yes, yes! I'm a fan of cognac, or rather it's legal for my preferences to say brandy. I have been drinking Armenian cognac for the last few years. There were many protests from the French, but this is the same Soviet heritage as "Soviet Champagne". This year Armenia signed an agreement with the European Union that within a few years it will abandon the use of the name Cognac.
I chose a small cognac factory for myself https://www.proshyan.am
My budget Cognacs for frequent use are aged 7-8 years and the price for a bottle of 0.5 liters is $ 10. The quality is excellent.
I usually smoke cigars without alcohol - for me, a high-quality Cuban cigar is self-sufficient and it does not require a pair.

How do you compare it to the French one?

[nKostyan]

How do you compare it to the French one?

In my humble unprofessional opinion, they have a mild taste and can compete with the French in terms of price/quality. There is a large Ararat factory in Yerevan, which now belongs to the French Pernod Ricard, which indicates a high assessment of the level of Armenian brandy

[SirVantes]

In my parents' generation, no Chinese banquet in the Far East was complete without cognac on the table.  As I understand it, there were only 2 (unwritten) rules - it must be XO, and it must be duty-free. 

My more recent explorations have led me away from the big houses, to smaller producers who make spirits that are, to my palate, more characterful and much better value.  My favourites are Vallein Tercinier, Jean-Luc Pasquet and Jean Fillioux.  For converting someone to cognac, whether a casual drinker or a whiskyphile, I always go with Vallein Tercinier Hors d'Age (the XO works as well).

Some pointers:

• cognac is not legally vintage-dated, but producers get around this with a nudge-and-wink code, so that a 1970 cognac could be 'Lot 70' or 'Rue 70'.  Something labelled 'XO' is only guaranteed 10 years old; so why pass up a Lot 87 for a similar price?
• some find that the usual 40% abv makes for a pleasant but weak spirit.  Look for 'brut de fut' or cask strength releases that are increasingly common - the extra oomph makes all the difference.
• Fine Champagne used to be the only game in town, as the quality from the lesser crus/delimited production areas was poor.  With better vine management, modern production and (ahem) global warming, the products from the lesser areas are now very much worth trying.  Like @JohnS, I am partial to Borderies.  Lately, even stuff from Bons Bois is proudly labelled as such, and can be very good.   

[Edicion]

24 minutes ago, SirVantes said:

In my parents' generation, no Chinese banquet in the Far East was complete without cognac on the table.  As I understand it, there were only 2 (unwritten) rules - it must be XO, and it must be duty-free. 

 

When the economy took off in the late 70s and early 80s in HK they had at least a bottle (export quality like from duty free indeed) on each table at weddings and gatherings of importance such as company or family official dinners, and they drank it in normal glasses. Sources also say that Cognac accounted for more sales in volume than any other alcoholic beverage from France at the time - red wine included. Today, Baijiu has taken over the tradition at least on the mainland. 

[RDB]

I love Cognac and think it’s an excellent match for smoke. Plus ancient spirit has a great romance about it.
 

One key thing to understand is the dominance of the four major houses: Remy, Martell, Hennesy, Courvoissier. These all have massive brand value, so guess what? You pay a lot more for a given quality than you do with a small house. All four of these make very easy-going XO level products: quite sweet, easy to drink, perfectly pleasant. Their lower level stuff is reliable and fine for mixing. They do have excellent top level stuff, but it is excruciatingly expensive (Louis XIII yes please).

There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors. The whole no age statement thing is just to keep consumers in the dark, and make them think they are drinking older spirits than they actually are. Eg XO (‘Extra Old’) is a minimum of ten years - hardly ancient. Caramel is often added for colour. Lots of manipulation. Branding and marketing are the key factors.

For value and interest it’s small houses all the way. Check out Brandy Classics website for a very good range and overview. I enjoy many of them: Tesseron, Grosperrin, Ragnaud Sabourin, Fillioux for example. Don’t be put off by light colours. For those who like Bourbon oak ageing, try the Hermitage range of Cognacs.

@JohnS’ advice about how to drink is spot on. Tulip glass, focus on the smell and take tiny sips. One more very important thing: never swirl the glass. This releases masses of alcohol, which obscures the delicate flavours. You can gently roll the liquid around the inside of the glass to coat it if you want more intensity, but don’t agitate the liquid.

[Nino]

While I drink mostly Spanish Brandies like Torres, Lepanto, Duque de Alba or Cardenal Mendoza, I appreciate the lighter Cognacs as pairing for a good cigar.

My favourite Cognac would be Hine Rare VSOP. Small brand with high quality and price/quality ratio.

[BrightonCorgi]

Cognac is ok for me; something to enjoy while the snow is pounding down.  My "go to" for distilled is Kirsch.  That being said, you cannot go wrong any Pierre Ferrand cognac's.

http://maisonferrand.com/en/content/pierre-ferrand-cognac/

[Araffle]

I dabble in Armagnac, owning probably 25ish bottles which is a fraction of my whiskey and wine.   I gravitate to D’arroze because it just seems more “Farmer specific” than a particular “house style”   They bottle single vintage, single vineyard Armagnac’s which leads to a less consistent across the board profile which I prefer   They also do partial bottlings or maybe it’s better called “small batches” so that the 1996 Dom Cuzard Lasalle bottled in 2019 is different than the 2021 bottling   
 

I prefer that variation - highs and lows, hopefully avoiding the lows - to the predictable sameness across a line  

I see much the same way I look at Champagne   While the big houses do a great job with their premium offerings, the base line lacks the character that I can find with small grower champagne   Same thing  

 

 

[Meklown]

Well you made me thirsty! 

Cognac and cigars make a decent combo for me, not particularly better than whisky but not worse either. Rum is still my preferred match. Of course, these are generalisations and some particular bottlings outdo the "average". 

I also subscribe to the adage that "all spirits converge the more they are aged" (to paraphrase). Again, a generalisation but it is harder to differentiate between a 40yo rum v whisky v cognac as compared to a 5yo rum v whisky v cognac.

[BrightonCorgi]

5 hours ago, therealrsr said:

Someone brought this XO brandy as a gift for Thanksgiving, like cough syrup to my uncultured palette.  Might fill it with fireball lol.

From Costco?

[CaptainQuintero]

I absolutely love brandy! That buttery richness just does it right for me. I can't echo enough the comments about Armenian produce, there's some gorgeous stuff coming out of the region that can put most other products to shame

  I'm currently going through a bottle of Greek 12 star Metaxa, it's like a long long brother of Woodford Reserve double oak. A sticky toffee pudding in liquid form. Apple Brandy/Calvados is a great place to explore into as well, there's some brilliant small batch and great value bottles that you can order right from the orchards in Normandy and Southern England

  If you've a sweet tooth brandy can be a dream for you, it can take a bit of searching and discovery and I'd guess your destination will most likely not be in the usual big traditional french houses

 

 

[HDGSN]

Best bottle I have been fortunate to have is Tesseron Lot 50. Truly amazing stuff.

[99call]

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

My parents brought me up on  inexpensive  Spanish Cognac and Brandy's

My first experience of Spanish Brandy, was fairly rough 103 stuff, and my initial reaction was similarly unenthused.   I tried some Cardenal Mendoza two years ago and was blown away.  If you like PX and I believe you do,   you should defo give this a go it's absolutely fabulous.   It manages to be decadently Christmasy, without being too cloyingly sweet.  It's got a nice backdrop of walnut/date salty savoury that balances everything out.            Would pair fabulously with an after dinner 898

Also the packaging is utterly beautiful,  it's a shame they don't still come in the original cork boxes however

I would suggest, now maybe the time to give your heritage one more crack of the whip

 

[La_Tigre]

Can remember getting pissed off the E&J (erk & jerk) and Courvoisier from the parental liquor cabinet at a friend’s house as a youth. Haven’t revisited them since. 

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, HDGSN said:

Best bottle I have been fortunate to have is Tesseron Lot 50. Truly amazing stuff.

Another great brand, Tesseron.

[99call]

5 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

I'm currently going through a bottle of Greek 12 star Metaxa,

I can never quite work out if I like Metaxa.    One minute it's like drinking liquid flowers in a good way,  the next minute it's like drinking liquid flowers in a very bad way. 

[Trapper99]

My in-laws who live in Ukraine, introduced me to this Georgian cognac. They generally always shoot it after a toast, and they like to toast everything! Headed back there for two weeks over Christmas, so we will go thru many of these bottles!

[Myro]

Winston Churchill said the secret to long life was Cuban cigars, Armenian brandy, and no sport.

I'm partial to a JL 1 and some Ararat Nairi brandy. 

[ReturnFreeRisk]

Enjoy armagnac since its a bit more rustic to me and the layers of flavors are easier to discern on my palette.
Very partial to Delord offerings since I know/trust the rigor in their production processes — the price to value you get on their 25 or 30 yr is extraordinary when you compare against whiskies


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[Fuzz]

8 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

From Costco?

 

8 hours ago, therealrsr said:

I believe that is correct but not positive.

Yep, seen it plenty of times at Costco here in Aus. I have even seen a Tiger, Pig and Ox version. I think they were Napoleon XO Brandy.

[Fuzz]

Being Asian, I have quite a few bottles of cognac; XO, VSOP, VS, Fine Champagne etc. Most of them come from my parents, who got them during the 70-90s.

My favourite would have to be a Camus XO from the mid 80s. I have a few bottles of that. Then it would be the Hennessy XO and Remy Martin XO to round out my top 3.

Btw, the Costco XO cognac is actually fairly decent. It won't stack up to the big boys, but at the price point, good for serving to people who would not appreciate the finer points of a Camus XO. And you can cook with it too.