Finding the balance between the common good, personal rights and the ability to freely express an opinion that is devoid of hate and malice.

[potpest]

 
https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/16738?autologincheck=redirected
 
That was the number as of June 23, 2021.  The number is much higher now.  Nice try.
And downplaying it as mild is straight up lunacy.  There is nothing mild about a heart condition like that.  Will you also discount the "mild" cases of covid - which applies to 99% of covid cases who have "mild symptoms and fully recover"?  Why not?
Why are covid truthers so dishonest with their statistics?

Around 80% of covid cases are mild, which means rest and paracetamol at home, yes I will discount those, the other 20% of serious cases are the issue here.
Most Myocarditis cases cleared up in days with no lasting effects, it's not a dangerous heart condition, it's a rare mild side effect. The common cold can cause similar symptoms.

[mprach024]

People need to be careful with stats found on websites, yes even the cdc or who.  Whether it’s supporting vaccines or supporting the antivaxxers is no different.  Both camps are full of confirmation bias statistics. Pick a side and there’s a statistic to support you.  I’m exhausted by all of it where I stopped talking about it or to people who want to talk about it, on both sides of the issue. Fact is we don’t know for sure, it’s all educated guesses with stats and lessons looking in the rear view mirror.  Do what you feel is best for your family and buckle up for a long ride cause this is not going anywhere any time soon.  Chances are you’ll be fine, but sadly, not everyone will.

I’m vaccinated, my family is vaccinated, my wife and young son.  I chose that not based on any statistic, but information and the opinion from my brother who leads one of the largest health systems in the state, on what he’s seen in his hospitals as far as hospitalizations, deaths from Covid, and reactions to the vaccine.  For me it was a no brainer, but not everyone has access to a trusted source like me, so I blame no one for their stance if they choose not to vax.  I just wish everyone the best of luck, health, happiness, and I’ve moved on with my life to focus on what I can control instead of what I can’t.  Cheers fellas.

[Trapper99]

3 hours ago, Grateful13 said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/ottawa-next-three-games-postponed-due-to-coronavirus/c-327977610

99% of NHL players are vaccinated, so it's likely that everyone on the Ottawa Senators was vaccinated.  Now they are postponing games because of an outbreak.

Multiple NFL coaches have missed game as a result of contracting covid.  100% of NFL coaches are vaccinated.

Let's not even talk about the ridiculous amounts of healthy young people and athletes suddenly suffering from myocarditis.  Serious and life threatening heart inflammation that is a result of the vaccine.

Soon you will need a third shot to be considered "fully vaccinated" because, it turns out, the vaccine is not anywhere close to as effective as we were initially misled to believe.

Yeah, the vaccine totally works you guys!!!  Perfectly safe and effective!  

The Blue Jackets (team I followed) released an assistant coach and two players who refused to vax up. Easy to get 99% when you fire those who refuse….

[Cigar Surgeon]

15 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I contracted Myocarditis as a 24 year old and it has had long lasting affects on my health. My heart is slightly enlarged to this day. 

I contracted mine as a result of a virus. 

 

I always knew you had a big heart, but I thought it was figurative...

[porkchop]

On 11/15/2021 at 7:41 AM, CaptainQuintero said:

  I wanted to just pick up on this on a casual basis, I'm not going to trawl through the papers to give the specific data but it's there if it's of interest to you.

  The issue revolves around viral load, the vaccines reduce the viral load in a vaccinated person. The body is primed for a fight against the virus, so when it is infected the virus doesn't get the chance to replicate as much; it's being fought right away, hence a reduced viral load. In someone unvaccinated there is a length of time for the body to gear up into fighting-mode, this time is used by the virus to multiply and spread throughout the body. The result of a lower viral load is milder symptoms; essentially removing the risk of severe disease and death in all but the most frail.

  With the reduced viral load from the vaccines comes the reduced amount of viral particles that an infected person has at their disposal to spread. That's where the reduction of transmission comes from. With less viral matter being spread from an infected person, anyone coming into contact with them is also getting infected with a smaller amount meaning their experience will be more mild (Someone infected with a higher initial viral load has more chance of their immune system being overloaded faster.) so it works both ways and in a vaccinated population the amount of viral matter will decrease as more and more time goes by and this effect snowballs

 Off the top of my head the reduction of viral load from being vaccinated I think is something around 40%, combining that with ventilation, social distancing and masks are all part of the exit strategy for this.

  Reduced viral load is the key to stop the virus overwhelming someone's body and killing them, there's just a happy coincidence that it also reduces spread as a by-product

This is a gross oversimplification bordering on misinformation.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/11/08/mccaughey-new-vax-sciences-shows-mandates-unwise/

[Bijan]

21 minutes ago, porkchop said:

This is a gross oversimplification bordering on misinformation.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/11/08/mccaughey-new-vax-sciences-shows-mandates-unwise/

I was careful not to deal with this case, of vaccinated person with covid vs. unvaccinated person with covid. (these articles show that viral load is similar between vaccinated and unvaccinated, symptom and no symptom when the person has covid).

However what we can say with relative certainty though is that a vaccinated person is less likely to test positive for covid. And in that case we can definitely say there is less viral load. As the viral load being past a certain threshold is what triggers a positive test.

So as I said the vaccines would reduce transmission not by making people with covid less infectious, but by reducing the number of people with covid.

[CaptainQuintero]

28 minutes ago, porkchop said:

This is a gross oversimplification bordering on misinformation.

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/11/08/mccaughey-new-vax-sciences-shows-mandates-unwise/

  Like I said, a casual basis. I've zero desire to argue for opinions either way, just to simply to state the established science that has already been laid down for quite some time now. The raw data from peer reviewed national/international sized studies plus the development papers from Pfizer/Moderna/Oxford are there to download and digest. But understandably there isn't much appetite for that so simplification seems best.

  Clearly things may change as new variants appear but we're not going to uncover something online that scientists or national health executives have missed. You've quoted a tiny study of 800 which is specifically looking at one breakthrough variant under very specific conditions and an opinion piece from an author. They aren't a smoking gun that's going to rip through the mountains of studies, trials, data that decisions have been based off.

  As someone mentioned previously, you'll be able to find a small study or statistic to back up pretty much any point if you wish. There's a specific method behind the way the vaccines work that can't be argued with because they work using that very method. If someone wants to argue that they don't work then again I've zero appetite for engaging with that. It's been too long and I'm sure you'll forgive me if I don't want to be transported back to Fall of last year!

  I'd only say that newspapers and small studies serve a purpose but like we trust Cubans to manufacture our cigars and Rob to pick them, value the people who have used a lifetime of pushing cutting edge science to make the vaccines and the medical experts with much, much greater knowledge than us when they give advice

 Hope you and yours stay safe 👍

 

[inter4alia]

This thread needs more repetition. I'm not sure yet I understand what everyone's positions are on this issue. Can everyone please restate your positions again, maybe it will help me understand 😉

[porkchop]

 

 

[Fuzz]

6 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  As someone mentioned previously, you'll be able to find a small study or statistic to back up pretty much any point if you wish.

 

[HopeUgood]

On 11/15/2021 at 1:08 PM, Hammer Smokin' said:

I'm vaccinated. My wife is not. 

I find it very difficult to have a discussion on anything related. We can't do virtually anything anymore, as vax status is required to go anywhere indoors, to any event, virtually to do anything. 

If you aren't having an issue, I suspect where you live it isn't as restrictive to be non vaxxed?

San Francisco, where you need to be vaccinated to fart.  

I just thought not bringing my gf anywhere was an added bonus ?  🤨