Should Employers have the right to request staff be vaccinated?

[Cigar Surgeon]

2 minutes ago, clint said:

Just wondering if you've done any in depth research on the efficacy of the pcr test?  The inventor of the test (Kary Mullis) is on video stating that pcr is not a tool that should be used to determine illness, and that if you cycle the test past a certain threshold you can pretty much find anything you want in the human body. 

I haven't, no. It's worth pointing out that for the people I previously mentioned, the reason they got tested is because they were symptomatic, quite a number of them having secondary lingering symptoms after recovery. And their political affiliations should be obvious, since they're in the cigar industry.

[Tobbot]

3 hours ago, clint said:

Just wondering if you've done any in depth research on the efficacy of the pcr test?  The inventor of the test (Kary Mullis) is on video stating that pcr is not a tool that should be used to determine illness, and that if you cycle the test past a certain threshold you can pretty much find anything you want in the human body. Unfortunately Mullis passed away in August of 2019.   From what I understand the CDC is quietly moving away from pcr for testing of Covid.  Fake news? Maybe...

I'm not super current on this topic but pretty sure I've heard of PCR  being used in clinical setting as a predictor of severity of illness?

I'm super certain that I've heard of NLR (neurophil/lymphocytes ratio) being used as severity predictor. It's been a few but I think this is current.

 

15 hours ago, Baccy said:

No because millions on workers already have natural immunity, even though the Fauci army doesn't want to talk about this, it exists. They say just shut up and take it. As far as I know there have been very few cases of clinically documented reinfection. Correct me if I'm wrong...

What millions and where?

[Baccy]

10 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

I know at least 7 people personally in the cigar industry that were infected twice, and at least 3 more than were infected three times. 🤷‍♂️ All confirmed with COVID tests, according to them at the time. 

Oh ok. I was just going by what I had read on a medical website. Good to know!

[Tobbot]

15 hours ago, Baccy said:

No because millions on workers already have natural immunity, even though the Fauci army doesn't want to talk about this, it exists. They say just shut up and take it. As far as I know there have been very few cases of clinically documented reinfection. Correct me if I'm wrong...

This is difficult to demonstrate because it requires someone thinking ahead and saving original infection samples, then having both viral samples genome's analyzed. In U.S., who has lagged in testing from the get-go (especially genome sequencing). So naturally...there is little data on reinfection.

As a side note, we need as much data as possible all the time to understand as much as possible...Not certain but pretty sure entire world could do MUCH better.

[Baccy]

1 hour ago, Tobbot said:

I'm not super current on this topic but pretty sure I've heard of PCR  being used in clinical setting as a predictor of severity of illness?

I'm super certain that I've heard of NLR (neurophil/lymphocytes ratio) being used as severity predictor. It's been a few but I think this is current.

 

What millions and where?

You know millions of people have been infected with covid right?

[Hammer Smokin']

are you asserting that those who get covid build a natural immunity? (if I'm piecing your posts together accurately)

[Tobbot]

42 minutes ago, Baccy said:

You know millions of people have been infected with covid right?

You know there's billions on the planet right?...that's with a BUH-B

[Baccy]

26 minutes ago, Tobbot said:

You know there's billions on the planet right?...that's with a BUH-B

You said "what millions" so I told you, lol

[Hammer Smokin']

42 minutes ago, Baccy said:

Well that's your opinion and I have mine. Just because you don't like my opinion that no one should be FORCED to take this vaccine under any circumstances that doesn't mean that your right and I'm wrong. It's just an opinion. Get it? 

FWIW, I'm not anti-vaccine. I hope people make the decisions to get it, especially if they have no immunity whatsoever but it should be a personal decision not some corporation threatening their livelihood. 

just to clarify, if you get covid, you don't build a natural immunity like you suggested. 

we all have opinions. 

but don't let them get in the way of facts. 

[JohnnyO]

Rob...Look what the NFL is doing. A different protocol for non-vaccinated players. More frequent PCR tests. They have to be isolated from time to time. More zoom meetings. If they get everybody sick they could lose a paycheck or two along with their team mates. Mind you they only get 17 paychecks a year. If a game is cancelled look at the losses. They have to protect any future revenue. Miami is doing the same. In order to enter a hospital, school, government building they are requiring vaccines or a weekly PCR test. Right now PCR's are free, in a while you might have to pay $100-$150 at a private hospital/clinic like it was in the beginning. No employee can hang out for long with continued PCR tests. Today I went on a sentimental journey in search of Padron Fumas in Little Havana. The place looks like a war zone. For rent/sale, graffiti everywhere. The small rolling factories that were once there are all boarded up. Padron was there but that was it. No Cuban bakery to get a cafecito. It used to be such a nice place. Don't get me started on the Orange Bowl. No politics or touchy-feely subjects sympathy will save your business-employee situation. You have to move on to help your business. If they ask you for a reason you can always say: "That's how they do it in Miami". John 

[Baccy]

1 hour ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

just to clarify, if you get covid, you don't build a natural immunity like you suggested. 

we all have opinions. 

but don't let them get in the way of facts. 

Are we playing semantics here? You do develop antibodies. Which offer some degree of protection... pretty similar to the vaccine. Of course your not 100% "immune" per se...

[Nino]

Scientists unlock clues to determining how safe vaccinated people are from Covid-19

• 

By Andrew Joseph Aug. 16, 2021

A fisherman has blood drawn to test for COVID-19 antibodies. Elaine Thompson/Ap

Imagine peering into people’s blood and being able to pick up a simple marker of exactly how well protected they are from Covid-19.

It’s a pressing goal for scientists who are still trying to understand what immunity to the coronavirus looks like, how robustly vaccines protect us over time, and how protected people are who’ve had and recovered from Covid-19.

Now, a year and a half into the pandemic, researchers are starting to flesh out exactly what these “correlates of protection” look like, a step that could help track the durability of immunity and speed the development of additional vaccines. In a preprint paper last week, a group of researchers from both academia and U.S. health agencies reported their findings of the immune correlates for Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccine. The study demonstrated the link between the level of antibodies in a person’s system and how protected they are against Covid-19, validating the hypothesis that antibodies could be used as a measure that signifies overall protection.

“We saw a very clear correlation that the higher the level of antibody produced by vaccines, the less likely you were to become sick with Covid-19,” said Christopher Houchens, one of the authors of the paper and a biologist at the U.S. Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority.

The team is working on similar studies for the other vaccines that received support from Operation Warp Speed, including Johnson & Johnson’s and AstraZeneca’s, while other research groups are investigating other vaccines used around the world. Additional recent studies have also pointed to using antibody levels as correlates of protection.

A key advantage of knowing the correlates

Continue reading : https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/16/scientists-clues-how-safe-vaccinated-people-are-from-covid-19/?utm_source=STAT+Newsletters&utm_campaign=6656f19837-Daily_Recap&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-6656f19837-152364710

[Hammer Smokin']

9 hours ago, Baccy said:

Are we playing semantics here? You do develop antibodies. Which offer some degree of protection... pretty similar to the vaccine. Of course your not 100% "immune" per se...

no one is playing semantics with this. 

calling a "natural immunity" the same as "some degree of protection" are two very different things. I guess how different depends on your agenda. 

[Cigar Surgeon]

9 hours ago, Baccy said:

Are we playing semantics here? You do develop antibodies. Which offer some degree of protection... pretty similar to the vaccine. Of course your not 100% "immune" per se...

You develop antibodies against a particular strain of COVID. That does not confer antibodies at the same degree of protection remotely similar to vaccination for other variants. You're being disingenuous.

The reason for the vaccination is to provide widespread protection against all variants, as well as preventing more variants from developing in the unvaccinated population. 

[bassistheplace]

Most recovered COVID-19 patients mount broad, durable immunity after coronavirus infection

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after-covid-19-found-durable-and-robust

[Baccy]

Most recovered COVID-19 patients mount broad, durable immunity after coronavirus infection
https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after-covid-19-found-durable-and-robust

and this:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

Sent from my SM-G996U1 using Tapatalk

[Puros Y Vino]

19 minutes ago, bassistheplace said:

Most recovered COVID-19 patients mount broad, durable immunity after coronavirus infection

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/natural-immunity-after-covid-19-found-durable-and-robust

"www.precisionvaccinations.com"  😐

Under "Contact Us" This says it all.

Please send an email to [email protected].  😁

Color me skeptical. The site seems to balance both sides of the arguments but IMO it solidifies the anti-vaxxer stance. You know, the type of person to cherry pick the article that vindicates them?

[bassistheplace]

I'm not throwing poop at anything or anyone.

[Puros Y Vino]

14 minutes ago, bassistheplace said:

I'm not throwing poop at anything or anyone.

Understood. Just poking fun at the site. I didn't mean to direct it to you in particular.  My apologies for that not being clear.   It just seems suspect and I love the "contact Karen" link.  FWIW, the site was registered in 2016 and like I said, it does appear to publish a balanced set of articles. 

[bassistheplace]

no offense taken and definitely no offense meant.

From the very beginning of this fiasco, I have advocated extending grace to all. This is everyone's first rodeo and we're all trying our best to deal with it well.

[xsquid]

If your doctor says get one - get one.  If the doc says no due to some issue with your medical history then don't.  If employer insists well your health is priceless you can do the math.

[LLC]

Clearly we can see no matter what our opinion is on this, the the fact is every day more and more companies are saying you need to show proof of vaccine or show a recent negative test to go into their place of business. This includes many of the biggest sports teams and entertainment venues. 
Of course this doesn’t mean you are being required to get a vaccine but it does mean those with and those without a vaccine are being treated different. 
I’m not saying that’s good or bad, just that it is a reality that will continue to become more common. 

[Ken Gargett]

in the never-ending search for an answer to this, and many other questions, who better to turn to than a respected sportsman. 

in this case coach of the washington whatever-they-are-this-week football team. Ron Rivera, a wise man, if ever there was one. in an interview recently, the coach let his frustrations show. who can blame him? 

"Gen Z is relying on this. And you got some, quite frankly, f-----g a--holes that are putting a bunch of misinformation out there, leading people to die. That's frustrating to me, that these people are allowed to have a platform. And then, one specific news agency, every time they have someone on, I'm not a doctor, but the vaccines don't work. Or I'm not an epidemiologist, but vaccines are going to give you a third nipple and make you sterile. Come on. That, to me? That should not be allowed."

as always, WFT leading the way for the world. superbowl, here we come (it might help if we were not one of the least vaccinated teams in the NFL but baby steps). 

[Baccy]

10 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

no one is playing semantics with this. 

calling a "natural immunity" the same as "some degree of protection" are two very different things. I guess how different depends on your agenda. 

Sure you were... Even the NIH refers to it as "immunity" when referring it....

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Baccy
trying to be nice

[El Presidente]

play the ball and not the man gents. 

pretend you are discussing this with a mate at the pub face to face as opposed to being behind a keyboard.