Zebra Posted August 10, 2021 Posted August 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: for those clinging on to the concept of the vaccinated getting it, every report i have found says that in the very minor number of cases where this happens, the result is a much less severe dose. so relying on that, without further evidence, is not likely to fly. Even if that’s right it doesn’t stop them transmitting it. This is important because as I currently understand it vaccinated staff will protect no one but themselves. The argument that vaccinated staff protect customers is seemingly a shaky one without any real scientific evidence to back it up. 4
Webbo Posted August 10, 2021 Posted August 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, DaBoot said: Tough one. I want to say no. But they do have the right to say yes. But with personal choice,( religious personal preference)where do we draw the line.???? The employee can go find new work elsewhere, can I per say as an employer, not hire someone because they are overweight?? Not very likely I will catch morbid obesity from a co-worker though!
triphitter Posted August 10, 2021 Posted August 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: in fact, it should be taken out of the employer's hands and made compulsory, though sadly those elected to enforce such issues are truly dumber than the proverbial bag of rocks (looking at you, premier pumpkin). Elected officials will do anything to remain “elected”, including punting the onus of vaccination requirements (or lack there of) on the employers. They are staying away from something toxic to remain elected. With that said, I’m vaccinated, but not because my employer would terminate me if I didn’t. That’s my answer to this poll. I punt!
Popular Post Grateful13 Posted August 10, 2021 Popular Post Posted August 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Zebra said: Even if that’s right it doesn’t stop them transmitting it. This is important because as I currently understand it vaccinated staff will protect no one but themselves. The argument that vaccinated staff protect customers is a seemingly a shaky one without any real scientific evidence to back it up. Exactly, it’s like the current hysteria with kids supposedly getting it in any serious numbers. Absolutely no scientific or statistical evidence behind it, pure fear propaganda. If you are vaccinated and believe the vaccine works, why are you even concerned with being around unvaccinated people? Are you not supposedly protected? It makes no sense, but then again little of it does at this point. It has become the new religion and all heretics against the current narratives must be cancelled. 11 3
Popular Post Ken Gargett Posted August 11, 2021 Popular Post Posted August 11, 2021 14 minutes ago, Zebra said: Even if that’s right it doesn’t stop them transmitting it. This is important because as I currently understand it vaccinated staff will protect no one but themselves. The argument that vaccinated staff protect customers is seemingly a shaky one without any real scientific evidence to back it up. took me a few minutes on google to find all manner scientific evidence and reports to confirm the contrary. studies here involving several hundred thousand (so hardly a small sampling) show transmission is reduced by 40 to 60%. israel has had similar results noting 'huge' and 'significant' reductions. the CDC has reported the same. you can choose not to believe them but that doesn't mean it is not true. plenty of scientific evidence if you don't simply dismiss it because it doesn't suit your view. apparently the moderna vax is even made or being adjusted, with this aim in mind. 8
dobbs Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 tough one... note that the question doesn't ask about anyone's feelings about vaccination. i agree with @teamrandr to a point, but there have to be some safeguards against biased hiring (won't dig any further into that here though). that said, private companies should not be required to have policies based on anyone's feelings but the owner. @Hammer Smokin' makes the main point which is that people generally aren't compelled to work at their current place of employment. does an employer requiring vaccinations violate the employee's rights? if you think so then the onus is on you to explain exactly how. there's no law guaranteeing employment under employee terms. -dobbs 2
Jackinkc Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 47 minutes ago, JY0 said: Once it’s fully approved, yes. I think a lot of the rules will change once it’s fully approved. I think your hand will be forced eventually. I am curious about medial insurance rates of the unvaccinated. As an employer, will you stand for rates exponentially higher if your employees are not vaccinated? Will the unvaccinated be ok with paying much higher premiums? Airlines are already starting to come out and require vaccines to fly with them. I do think if you are not vaccinated your options in life will be very limited after the vaccine is fully approved. As an employer, will you employee individuals that are handcuffed? Will hospitals only take vaccinated patience at some point? There is a ton of stress being put on hospitals from unvaccinated people. As long as the insurance companies pay up they will. What if the insurance companies at some point refuse paying for the unvaccinated? I think that will be the single biggest driver of people getting vaccinated.
El Presidente Posted August 11, 2021 Author Posted August 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: Iisrael has had similar results noting 'huge' and 'significant' reductions. Worthless 4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: apparently the moderna vax is even made or being adjusted, with this aim in mind. Worthless Not meanng to be difficult Ken but peer reviewed studies are understandably short on the ground as far as i understand. 1
Hammer Smokin' Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Jackinkc said: I think a lot of the rules will change once it’s fully approved. I think your hand will be forced eventually. I am curious about medial insurance rates of the unvaccinated. As an employer, will you stand for rates exponentially higher if your employees are not vaccinated? Will the unvaccinated be ok with paying much higher premiums? Airlines are already starting to come out and require vaccines to fly with them. I do think if you are not vaccinated your options in life will be very limited after the vaccine is fully approved. As an employer, will you employee individuals that are handcuffed? Will hospitals only take vaccinated patience at some point? There is a ton of stress being put on hospitals from unvaccinated people. As long as the insurance companies pay up they will. What if the insurance companies at some point refuse paying for the unvaccinated? I think that will be the single biggest driver of people getting vaccinated. My employer has a division that insures entertainment across NA. Just today we have a big client in the USA who just cancelled a concert in Texas because the venue wouldn't enforce the bands requirement to have all attendees show proof of vax or proof of no virus. I'm curious if the promotor will submit a claim under their cancellation insurance (likely). I'm unsure whether or not the policy will respond (and I'm glad I don't have to worry about that).
Hemclas Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 10 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said: took me a few minutes on google to find all manner scientific evidence and reports to confirm the contrary. studies here involving several hundred thousand (so hardly a small sampling) show transmission is reduced by 40 to 60%. Do the studies cover the OG virus and the delta variant?
Popular Post El Presidente Posted August 11, 2021 Author Popular Post Posted August 11, 2021 If one more moron uses "climate change" again in this discussion, they will be executed. 2 1 5
Jackinkc Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Hammer Smokin' said: My employer has a division that insures entertainment across NA. Just today we have a big client in the USA who just cancelled a concert in Texas because the venue wouldn't enforce the bands requirement to have all attendees show proof of vax or proof of no virus. I'm curious if the promotor will submit a claim under their cancellation insurance (likely). I'm unsure whether or not the policy will respond (and I'm glad I don't have to worry about that). We are in a shit show for sure! If it wasn’t for so many people suffering, it would be somewhat amusing to see how this all plays out.
Ken Gargett Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 1 minute ago, El Presidente said: Worthless Worthless Not meanng to be difficult Ken but peer reviewed studies are understandably short on the ground as far as i understand. why worthless? it is what we have now and provides the best info/indication we have. no one would suggest it is perfect but it is certainly a start. this all happened with all nations around the world hopelessly unprepared. they are doing what they can. sure, in time, we'll have much more thorough studies and understand all of it far better than we do but for the moment, surely these reports and studies have some value. if not, when and what does it take for them to fall into not worthless? i would suggest that they are infinitely more worthwhile than someone just dismissing it all because it does not suit their view. 4
Ken Gargett Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, El Presidente said: If one more moron uses "climate change" again in this discussion, they will be executed. how about weather inconsistencies? and with that, i will shoot myself. off to deal with deadlines, as much fun as all this is.
El Presidente Posted August 11, 2021 Author Posted August 11, 2021 Just now, Ken Gargett said: why worthless? it is what we have now and provides the best info/indication we have. no one would suggest it is perfect but it is certainly a start. this all happened with all nations around the world hopelessly unprepared. they are doing what they can. sure, in time, we'll have much more thorough studies and understand all of it far better than we do but for the moment, surely these reports and studies have some value. if not, when and what does it take for them to fall into not worthless? i would suggest that they are infinitely more worthwhile than someone just dismissing it all because it does not suit their view. Thay are worthless because I can't sit down my very nervous and religiously opposed employee and state that " I read that Israel has had huge and significant" reductions. Facts and law is what an employer can rely upon. Again, not meaning to be difficult.
El Presidente Posted August 11, 2021 Author Posted August 11, 2021 Just now, Ken Gargett said: how about weather inconsistencies? and with that, i will shoot myself. off to deal with deadlines, as much fun as all this is. Did "Moron" give it away i was talking about you? 2
Ken Gargett Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 Just now, El Presidente said: Did "Moron" give it away i was talking about you? actually no. i was wondering who else was as enlightened. deadlines. i have deadlines and doctors. hopefully this won't be shut down when i come back tonight.
El Presidente Posted August 11, 2021 Author Posted August 11, 2021 Just now, Ken Gargett said: actually no. i was wondering who else was as enlightened. deadlines. i have deadlines and doctors. hopefully this won't be shut down when i come back tonight. On the contrary, as you are leaving......it has every chance of continuing
Ken Gargett Posted August 11, 2021 Posted August 11, 2021 Just now, El Presidente said: On the contrary, as you are leaving......it has every chance of continuing i look forward to the opp to fix that!
El Presidente Posted August 11, 2021 Author Posted August 11, 2021 Just now, Ken Gargett said: i look forward to the opp to fix that! ....leave already.
Popular Post djrey Posted August 11, 2021 Popular Post Posted August 11, 2021 Forced vaccines will cause mass unemployment. I can count over 20 people I know personally that would happily lose their jobs before taking something that has zero data on long term effects. We will happily take our chances on something with a 99+% survival rate. If this forced vaccine crap continues we will all see a total collapse of society world wide, I guarantee it. 5 3
Popular Post Hammer Smokin' Posted August 11, 2021 Popular Post Posted August 11, 2021 I see it as an opportunity for those who choose to get vaccinated to get a better chance at a job. Or an opportunity for an employer to advertise they don't require vaccinations, to attract those top employees that don't want to be forced to take anything. It will all work out. There will be absolutely no collapse of society. 8 1
El Presidente Posted August 11, 2021 Author Posted August 11, 2021 Just now, clint said: Just wondering if you as an employer would be willing to assume liability for any injuries caused by a vaccine that you mandate to your employees? The pharmaceutical companies have convinced governments to grant them immunity from liability so I'm guessing they would probably do the same for business. In Oz no vaccine was given before approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA). Fingers (and lawyers) would be pointing at them.
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