Best wishes to the people of Cuba-

[NW_Oregon]

8 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Please don't. Not today. 👍

ahh, didn't mean nothing by it. with out news or a clear picture of what's happening in cuba at the moment, its about the only thing I can productively worry about.

[Corylax18]

WhatsApp Messages stopped being delivered to a couple friends in Havana sometime around Midnight Eastern last night. Still not a peep this morning, so Cell service has been partially or completely shutoff. 

[SCgarman]

2 hours ago, dowjr1 said:

There are some people in the US who seem to love communism and socialism.  Can we just do a big swap and send them down and bring the Liberty loving American flag waving Cubans up?

Yes!

[Kevin48438]

What is the goal of the protesters?  They’re getting shot and likely worse, arrested for it.

[dgixxer252525]

26 minutes ago, Kevin48438 said:

What is the goal of the protesters?  They’re getting shot and likely worse, arrested for it.

Freedom

[dgixxer252525]

Riots have intensified today for sure. Video coming out now of buildings being trashed, more cars being flipped, and people getting shot at. Word from friends in Holguin and SAB that there are significant officers and military members that are split on who’s side to take. 
 

I agree that this has nothing to do with the USA. This has everything to do with the tyrannical regime that has been in power since 1959. 
 

EDIT: Word is that Venezuelan special forces are coming tonight to reinforce the revolutions violence against an unarmed public.

[Ryan]

I have messages out to seven or eight Cuban friends today, I've only heard back from one.

She lives alone in Habana Vieja. She says the internet connection to outside Cuba has been cut off today, she says she uses a Cuban vpn-style app to get access. Still protestors on the streets, the police are getting violent, hitting them. She's hiding in a corner of her apartment very afraid. She says " Si, todo el pueblo se esta levantando", "the whole town is rising up".

That's all I have for now.

[Ryan]

Diario de Cuba is getting some updates out but not too much today.

https://diariodecuba.com/cuba

[Jimmy_jack]

Would be great if some concerned governments would keep the Venezuelan commies from assisting the Cuban commies. Oh well. 

[NW_Oregon]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy_jack said:

Would be great if some concerned governments would keep the Venezuelan commies from assisting the Cuban commies. Oh well. 

If this all happens I'm worried the US may get involved. we've fought one war here before had and troops on the ground a couple times after that and had a US backed indigenous invasion.

Wars are like herpes, they always break out in the same places.

not looking forward to what's to come, wishing the Cuban government would just allow the protests to continue with out violence.

 

[dgixxer252525]

Boats throughout South Florida are staging right now and supposedly leaving tonight for international waters off of Cuba. They are loaded with water, food, medicine, and who knows what else…

[Thirds]

I picked an opportune time to start reading “The Devil and Karl Marx” by Paul Kengor. This was taken from the preface.  I pray for the Cuban people.  

[PigFish]

7 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

👆This is what I was talking about. 

This thread is about CUBA, not America. 

My friend, this is where I disagree with you. It is not really 'just' about Cuba to some of us. It is about the ideologies that enslave Cuba and cause human suffering in many parts of the world in some form or other. The issue of Marxism, Anglo/European, Asian, Caribbean, African and even North American and a battle against it are interrelated. That is because Marxism is insidious, infectious and ever sponsored.

Do you think that Cuban Marxism was simply confined to Cuba? Why then were Cuban troops deployed around the globe to support Marxism in other countries? Why were the Soviets involved in the cultivation and support of this ideology in Cuba, China and elsewhere?

Yes this thread is about Cuba. But what the Cubans appear to want here (freedom, liberty, innate human rights) are what some of us are born with, ostensibly don't understand and gamble with, even today. It is often hard to fathom why. Is it out of ignorance of history, plain stupidity, fear of the unknown, a promise of something better.... I can't say that I know?

One thing some of us understand, Marxism is a sham. It is the ultimate pinnacle of fraud and treachery. The story of Marxism is about the horrible things man will do to fellow man as their reward to lord over them; the ignorant, the afraid, and the poor, the academic, the artistic and even the scientific. The lure of Marxism ensnares a lot of people. I know some of them and one thing is for certain. They may not recognize it, but some of them are surely not stupid people...!

Local unrest in Cuba is about Cuba. I can see here many are hopeful and afraid for their friends, family and loved ones. But what of the rest of us? Is Cuba just about a place to vacation? A place to get cigars? What does the Cuban counter revolution mean to some of us that don't know people in Cuba? The Cuban 'counter revolution' to Marxism/Communism/Socialism is about the strength of the fabric of man's inner nature to be free. It is a lesson to be made clear to those that don't understand evils of communism. It is about the strength of man to endure over terrible torment and mistreatment. That is the way that some anticommunists see it. This one at least.

Gods speed to our counter revolutionary brothers and sisters in Cuba! -Piggy 

[MrBirdman]

3 hours ago, PigFish said:

My friend, this is where I disagree with you. It is not really 'just' about Cuba to some of us. It is about the ideologies that enslave Cuba and cause human suffering in many parts of the world in some form or other. The issue of Marxism, Anglo/European, Asian, Caribbean, African and even North American and a battle against it are interrelated. That is because Marxism is insidious, infectious and ever sponsored.

Do you think that Cuban Marxism was simply confined to Cuba? Why then were Cuban troops deployed around the globe to support Marxism in other countries? Why were the Soviets involved in the cultivation and support of this ideology in Cuba, China and elsewhere?

Yes this thread is about Cuba. But what the Cubans appear to want here (freedom, liberty, innate human rights) are what some of us are born with, ostensibly don't understand and gamble with, even today. It is often hard to fathom why. Is it out of ignorance of history, plain stupidity, fear of the unknown, a promise of something better.... I can't say that I know?

One thing some of us understand, Marxism is a sham. It is the ultimate pinnacle of fraud and treachery. The story of Marxism is about the horrible things man will do to fellow man as their reward to lord over them; the ignorant, the afraid, and the poor, the academic, the artistic and even the scientific. The lure of Marxism ensnares a lot of people. I know some of them and one thing is for certain. They may not recognize it, but some of them are surely not stupid people...!

Local unrest in Cuba is about Cuba. I can see here many are hopeful and afraid for their friends, family and loved ones. But what of the rest of us? Is Cuba just about a place to vacation? A place to get cigars? What does the Cuban counter revolution mean to some of us that don't know people in Cuba? The Cuban 'counter revolution' to Marxism/Communism/Socialism is about the strength of the fabric of man's inner nature to be free. It is a lesson to be made clear to those that don't understand evils of communism. It is about the strength of man to endure over terrible torment and mistreatment. That is the way that some anticommunists see it. This one at least.

Gods speed to our counter revolutionary brothers and sisters in Cuba! -Piggy 

Respectfully, if you want to opine at length about political philosophy, start a thread on it. 

[Kevin48438]

12 hours ago, dgixxer252525 said:

 

13 hours ago, Kevin48438 said:

What is the goal of the protesters?  They’re getting shot and likely worse, arrested for it.

Freedom

 

I get that as an “ultimate” goal.  But that is vague to a degree.  How do the protesters intend to accomplish that?

Are they wanting the party to replace Diaz-Canel with a different party member?

Are they wanting free elections with parties that can challenge The Communist Party of Cuba?

A new constitution focusing on individual rights?

Do they have a leader/government that they believe to be more benevolent that they wish to install?

Do they want the top 100k “revolutionaries” to swim off to Mexico and Guatemala?

Do they want the UN or some foreigners to rule by mandate until a more permanent solution is decided?

The point is, expressing dissatisfaction is just part of a plan.  History is replete with ineffective uprisings and failed coups.

[Jimmy_jack]

1 hour ago, MrBirdman said:

Respectfully, if you want to opine at length about political philosophy, start a thread on it. 

He doesn’t need to. It’s politics that have ruined that country. Shitty communist politics to be precise. People are clearly tired of it and trying to change their fate. 

[Ryan]

They want access to food and medicine. The basics. Covid and failed policy have escalated the problems. Mobile internet access (at least up until Sunday) has allowed protests to get organised somewhat.

It's not just Covid medicine they need either. Just about every kind of treatment drug and painkiller. People are dying due to lack of access to the basics. Much worse in the last few months than probably any time since 1959.

A small anecdotal example. I have a friend in Jaimanitas who has MS, a young mother. Two weeks ago, she had to go and buy a month's supply of Interferon from a dying man. Now she has medicine for a month.

Diaz-Canal is keeping up the position that the unrest is caused by influence from across the straits, of course. That it is a new form of Imperialism from the US that he says has never gone away. I hope nothing is done that could give any kind of fuel to that argument.

Hints above that "supplies other than food and medicine is being loaded on boats bound for Cuba", that would almost certainly backfire, if there is any truth to those rumours. "Freedom", as also stated above, is important yes, but at least as important to Cubans, given their history, is Independence. The best possibility of change happening, and sticking, in Cuba is if Cubans can be seen to have done it for and by themselves. 

News images of any weapons being unloaded from the US would at very least cause a wobble in determination and could have people switching sides. People. anywhere, will put up with a lot of hardship if they believe they are doing it to withstand aggression from a foreign enemy, as has been seen up until now in Cuba.

Cubans need help and supplies yes, foreign influence, no.

[Meesterjojo]

4 hours ago, PigFish said:

One thing some of us understand, Marxism is a sham. It is the ultimate pinnacle of fraud and treachery. The story of Marxism is about the horrible things man will do to fellow man as their reward to lord over them; the ignorant, the afraid, and the poor, the academic, the artistic and even the scientific. 

Playing devil's advocate: I'd claim the exact same could be said of capitalism. Capitalism is a story of abuse and exploitation. Of profit over fellowship. 

I work on healthcare. I see it every day at work. Profit drives advances as much as it holds people back. 

We no longer live in an age where altruistic people give their discoveries to the world for free to better mankind, but an Era where every mechanism that can be exploited in a human cell to deliver a treatment has been patented by firms for maximum profit. They may not own us, but they own the rights to our cells. It's the same as a cd or DVD purchase: we buy the disc (we have a body), but we're only leasing the rights to the music.

Capitalism ignores the problems inherent in human nature unless there's profit to be made.

Not to say the popular incarnation of Marxism is any better.

Humans are deeply flawed. And until we remove these ideals of profit as a primary goal for living we will always be doomed. Not taking care of our neighbors while directly harming them is insidious. And yes, I say this while smoking a Cohiba on my Samsung s21 knowing I'm exploiting a farmer and a person with a suicide net outside of their workplace.

I realized this decades ago, and now live in a desert. Away from people. It's rather glorious. My only social interactions are here,  at work, and occasionally at my partners work. I wish i could make the leap to complete independence. I wish we call could.

[Ryan]

4 hours ago, PigFish said:

My friend, this is where I disagree with you...

 

2 minutes ago, Meesterjojo said:

Playing devil's advocate:..

All good stuff guys. But please, a new thread to continue discussion of the macro, Capitalism vs Marxism. This thread could be useful for the specifics of what is happening right now in Cuba.

[MrBirdman]

9 minutes ago, Ryan said:

All good stuff guys. But please, a new thread to continue discussion of the macro, Capitalism vs Marxism. This thread could be useful for the specifics of what is happening right now in Cuba.

Yes, thank you. People in Cuba aren’t rising up for esoteric political reasons or to teach Americans why AOC is dangerous. I care about THEIR struggle for freedom from oppression, so let’s keep the focus there on this thread. 

[djrey]

This has been coming for a long time now. The Cuban people are obviously fed up and the covid inspired government overreach was the final straw. 

[Jimmy_jack]

31 minutes ago, Ryan said:

They want access to food and medicine. The basics. Covid and failed policy have escalated the problems. Mobile internet access (at least up until Sunday) has allowed protests to get organised somewhat.

It's not just Covid medicine they need either. Just about every kind of treatment drug and painkiller. People are dying due to lack of access to the basics. Much worse in the last few months than probably any time since 1959.

A small anecdotal example. I have a friend in Jaimanitas who has MS, a young mother. Two weeks ago, she had to go and buy a month's supply of Interferon from a dying man. Now she has medicine for a month.

Diaz-Canal is keeping up the position that the unrest is caused by influence from across the straits, of course. That it is a new form of Imperialism from the US that he says has never gone away. I hope nothing is done that could give any kind of fuel to that argument.

Hints above that "supplies other than food and medicine is being loaded on boats bound for Cuba", that would almost certainly backfire, if there is any truth to those rumours. "Freedom", as also stated above, is important yes, but at least as important to Cubans, given their history, is Independence. The best possibility of change happening, and sticking, in Cuba is if Cubans can be seen to have done it for and by themselves. 

News images of any weapons being unloaded from the US would at very least cause a wobble in determination and could have people switching sides. People. anywhere, will put up with a lot of hardship if they believe they are doing it to withstand aggression from a foreign enemy, as has been seen up until now in Cuba.

Cubans need help and supplies yes, foreign influence, no.

That’s all good and well. We all know a peaceful protest in the streets will only end the same way it always has. Mansions will need to burn and politicians will need to abandon the island for change to occur. That’s the truth. Hopefully they can do it alone, but that is unlikely. They have no resources to do it, unless their brothers and sisters in the military join them.

[djrey]

1 minute ago, Jimmy_jack said:

That’s all good and well. We all know a peaceful protest in the streets will only end the same way it always has. Mansions will need to burn and politicians will need to abandon the island for change to occur. That’s the truth. Hopefully they can do it alone, but that is unlikely. They have no resources to do it, unless their brothers and sisters in the military join them.

Spot on. They have no democracy or any means to a peaceful change in policy. Sadly that is the only way any change will ever come to Cuba. Unfortunately I am sure China will be very quick to offer aid to the govt. That would trigger a scary chain of events.  

[MrBirdman]

2 minutes ago, djrey said:

Unfortunately I am sure China will be very quick to offer aid to the govt.

This worries me as well. Russia too will do doubt do what they can to prop up the government. 

[Ryan]

1 minute ago, Jimmy_jack said:

That’s all good and well. We all know a peaceful protest in the streets will only end the same way it always has. Mansions will need to burn and politicians will need to abandon the island for change to occur. That’s the truth. Hopefully they can do it alone, but that is unlikely. They have no resources to do it, unless their brothers and sisters in the military join them.

If enough Cubans want it to happen badly enough, it will happen. If there is any evidence of it happening due to foreign assistance, it is far less likely to happen and even less likely for a result, that Cubans are happy with, to last. 

Every population has the resources domestically for a successful popular revolution. In fact, it is one the main reasons that all successful revolutions have succeeded.