Beginner's Corner: A rough guide to ageing and aged Cuban cigars

[Bijan]

2 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

does anyone feel the type of box heavily affects the aging process? Dressed boxes with little cedar outside of a strip included vs slide lid boxes or cabs? I know there is pretty much consensus that take cigars out of cardboard boxes for long term aging. It appears it's 50/50 when it comes to removing from Tubos. 

this is at top of mind right now as I just received 10 Diplo 2's (RAT FEB 20). I'm putting them into an old Diplo 2 box from some '14's I quickly went through. Simple standard dressed diplo 2 box. 

But would it make a difference if I put them into a slide lid box, or cab style box? Even one of those standard Partagas D4 boxes? 

Or is this just another example of over thinking things? 

A bit of overthinking. Dress boxes, Slide lid boxes, and semi boite nature (D4 box) are all plywood now. Slide lid boxes and semi boite nature have a cedar veneer. I think only full boite nature (and cabinets like Sir Winston and 898 boxes) are still fully cedar.

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/packaging/information#Packaging_Types

One potential advantage of slide lid boxes though is the fact that cigars are touching each other more I guess, vs just being side by side.

[mprach024]

3 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

does anyone feel the type of box heavily affects the aging process? Dressed boxes with little cedar outside of a strip included vs slide lid boxes or cabs? I know there is pretty much consensus that take cigars out of cardboard boxes for long term aging. It appears it's 50/50 when it comes to removing from Tubos. 

this is at top of mind right now as I just received 10 Diplo 2's (RAT FEB 20). I'm putting them into an old Diplo 2 box from some '14's I quickly went through. Simple standard dressed diplo 2 box. 

But would it make a difference if I put them into a slide lid box, or cab style box? Even one of those standard Partagas D4 boxes? 

Or is this just another example of over thinking things? 

No difference, just avoid the cardboard or remove them and store in old boxes or tray.

[TobaccoRoad]

Great thread. These types of threads are what brought me to this forum and keep me coming back. 

[smbauerllc]

I don't really do any aging, so can't really speak to that, but for regular storage I do take everything out of the cardboard boxes as I believe they would absorb moisture easily, but i leave nc's in there cellophane and tubos in there closed tubes, and everything seems to be equally humidified that way

9 hours ago, TobaccoRoad said:

Great thread. These types of threads are what brought me to this forum and keep me coming back. 

Yeah, definitely a good place to learn a lot about the hobby.
Been smoking Cigars for 15 years, but until just a couple years ago I never put any effort into learning about the hobby. I simply bought what tasted good and enjoyed smoking them and that was it.
Didn't know anything about it for many years.
Now I try and learn absolutely as much as I can to enhance my smoking experience and also just because I find it interesting how much there is to know about the hobby
In fact, just recently smoked my first Cigar with more than 2 or 3 years age on it, so I have a lot to learn about aging, which is precisely why I started the thread the op mentions
I currently belong to 6 cigar forums and use Tapatalk to keep track of them all, so obviously I am doing a lot of reading and learning, lol

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


 

[jonnyfromiranny]

14 hours ago, Bijan said:

Dress boxes, Slide lid boxes, and semi boite nature (D4 box) are all plywood now.

Does this mean that it is okay to age in dress boxes? Or should I try and find another means for long term aging? I don't have too many SLBs lying around.

[Bijan]

4 minutes ago, jonnyfromiranny said:

Does this mean that it is okay to age in dress boxes? Or should I try and find another means for long term aging? I don't have too many SLBs lying around.

Yeah I'd think dress boxes should be fine.

Edit: more or less same material in dress boxes and SLBs except plywood is covered in paper in dress box and thin layer of cedar in SLB.

[mprach024]

6 hours ago, jonnyfromiranny said:

Does this mean that it is okay to age in dress boxes? Or should I try and find another means for long term aging? I don't have too many SLBs lying around.

Dress boxes are fine

[Yigal]

Thank you very much @CaptainQuintero for your detailed reviews and explanation.  Excellent timeless information.

 

[smbauerllc]

Agreed, excellent write up.

Have discovered that aging just isnt for me, so 2 to 3 years because of the manufacture date or simply sitting in my stash randomly aging, is it for me.

I'm certainly in the minority on aged cigars, so I'm sure your write up will help many people looking to properly age their smokes.

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[ParkitoATL]

On 4/20/2021 at 7:36 AM, CaptainQuintero said:

  @smbauerllc put the whole issue into focus with one simple question earlier this week: 

"Why do you personally feel Cuban's improve with age? What about them do you feel improves?" 

----

If you've received cigars from an online source its advised to let the cigars rest for a minimum of 90 days to let them acclimatise from the journey (Retailer storage>Shipping Office>Transport of truck/aeroplane/truck>Postal office>Truck>Your Home) and the changes in temperature/humidity that it suffered. ...

----

So after all that, the answer to the question is after that initial 4 years or so of settling down, ageing isn't something that intrinsically makes a cigar better. It's usually someone chasing a particular aspect of a cigar that they enjoy. Ageing won't make a bad cigar into a good one and it won't fix issues with construction. You will always need a good quality example of any cigar you intend to lay down. It's sending a cigar to a finishing school. Sometimes they graduate will honours, sometimes they crash out and lose some of the characteristics that make them what they are. It's a very subjective journey into what you enjoy from specific cigars, but it's an enjoyable one that you can take your time with.

 

Okay, let's say for the purposes of discussion that I have just received a box of RyJ Coronitas en Cedro, box UBM OCT 18.

These cigars were rolled at some point prior to Oct 2018, rested and then boxed. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Then, they were shipped all over the world and finally arrived at my house yesterday. Since they are subject to so many different temps and conditions over the past three years(!) have they really "AGED"? Or do they really start aging when they hit my humidor?

For my Nic/Honds, I obviously never know the date and the "aging" starts when they hit my boxes.

What are your thoughts on this?

[CaptainQuintero]

1 hour ago, ParkitoATL said:

Okay, let's say for the purposes of discussion that I have just received a box of RyJ Coronitas en Cedro, box UBM OCT 18.

These cigars were rolled at some point prior to Oct 2018, rested and then boxed. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Then, they were shipped all over the world and finally arrived at my house yesterday. Since they are subject to so many different temps and conditions over the past three years(!) have they really "AGED"? Or do they really start aging when they hit my humidor?

For my Nic/Honds, I obviously never know the date and the "aging" starts when they hit my boxes.

What are your thoughts on this?

 Personally I'd certainly say they have aged. There's probably a discussion to be had about if X amount of time in a stabled environment is better than the same about of time in changing environment conditions, but with the nature of cigars being handmade it's going to come along with a bus load of caveats 

  Oxygen will start to effect tobacco from the moment it's exposed to it. I'd hazard a guess that keeping a cigar in a freezer is one of the few things that would seriously inhibit ageing, but that's my pub science, I'm sure there's others on here with a much better science background who could chime in

  But yeah your box will have aged, there's a drift here in regards to preferential smoking conditions of a cigar though

 

 

[BoxPSI_ed]

I am bringing this thread back to life, is there a desired RH for aging? I keep my CCs at 62 RH, is this ideal or should it be higher or lower for long term storage (5-7 years)?

Thanks in advance.  

[RDB]

@BoxPSI_ed the general consensus is probably a bit higher for long term storage. Eg 62 for smoking, 67 for storage.

The big caveat is that these are relative humidity numbers, and the absolute humidity level depends on the temperature. Assuming you’re at stable cool room temp those numbers should be ok though.

It’s extremely hard to get good data on these issues by the way. Lots of variables to control, and the end result is subjective: do you want things to taste ‘old and delicate’ or just ‘smooth and integrated’ sort of thing.

[BoxPSI_ed]

Thank you! It’s that time of year where the temps are stabilizing after the temperature change. It’s usually between 62-65 degrees without any heat on throughout the fall/winter in the man cave, it can get down to 60 on those really cold days. Based on this the RH average should be in the high 80s. I am using two Tupperdors and they are excellent in holding RH. Last year I kept the RH around 68 for my NCs and never had issues with flavor or burn. I just got into CCs this past March and my stash is relatively new. The temps and RH on average for the past 7 months have been 67-69 degrees (70 on really hot days) and 62-64 for RH. I haven’t had any problems with flavor or burn when I have tried one to see how things were coming along. I’ll will play around with different RH packs to see what happens. I have a lot invested and don’t want to mess this up. 
 

As it relates to end results, I think smooth and integrated sounds perfect. I would toss in complex as well. 

[Monterey]

7 hours ago, RDB said:

@BoxPSI_ed the general consensus is probably a bit higher for long term storage. Eg 62 for smoking, 67 for storage.

The big caveat is that these are relative humidity numbers, and the absolute humidity level depends on the temperature. Assuming you’re at stable cool room temp those numbers should be ok though.

It’s extremely hard to get good data on these issues by the way. Lots of variables to control, and the end result is subjective: do you want things to taste ‘old and delicate’ or just ‘smooth and integrated’ sort of thing.

Funny about how people see "consensus".  The consensus I see (and use) is lower RH.  There was a great video on this with the davidoff long term shortage.  They store their long term in lower temps and lower humidity.  I've never seen anyone suggest higher humidity.    I don't yet have the expertise to say definitively, just that it was funny to see someone see another view as "consensus"

 

@BoxPSI_ed, based on what I have read and experienced, 62-65 is the sweet spot.

[Silverstix]

13 hours ago, BoxPSI_ed said:

I am bringing this thread back to life, is there a desired RH for aging? I keep my CCs at 62 RH, is this ideal or should it be higher or lower for long term storage (5-7 years)?

Thanks in advance.  

IDK I wouldn't drive myself too nuts over it.  Generally I find the cigars smoke better on the low end (62%-ish).  But if you're putting them away for a few years, just try not to dip lower than 62 or higher than 67.  If using a tupperdor (like I do) then it should be easy peasy to keep it there.....anywhere in that range and you'll be ok based on my experience.  Also agree with @RDB that so many other factors and variables go into the end result.  So really if your humidity is 2% off one way or the other it's not going to make too much of a difference, just shoot for a range and you'll be good.  Have fun.

P.S. - this thread is awesome I've gone back and read it several times 

[BoxPSI_ed]

2 hours ago, Monterey said:

@BoxPSI_ed, based on what I have read and experienced, 62-65 is the sweet spot.

Thank you, I can keep it in this range for RH and 60-63 for Temp without any issue. 

2 hours ago, Silverstix said:

But if you're putting them away for a few years, just try not to dip lower than 62 or higher than 67.  If using a tupperdor (like I do) then it should be easy peasy to keep it there.....anywhere in that range and you'll be ok based on my experience.  Also agree with @RDB that so many other factors and variables go into the end result.  So really if your humidity is 2% off one way or the other it's not going to make too much of a difference, just shoot for a range and you'll be good.  Have fun.

Awesome! I try not to worry about this stuff but the Internet demons keep me up at night sometimes. 

[Silverstix]

1 hour ago, BoxPSI_ed said:

the Internet demons keep me up at night sometimes. 

Hah we all know that feeling all too well.

I have 3 large tupperdors for boxes, all with 65% boveda packs and I really never have to worry about RH in them:

- 1 for long term storage ('20-'22 stock) that I won't touch for another 3-5 years

- 1 for boxes that are open and that I'm smoking from (mostly '19 and prior)

- 1 for overflow, which is mostly boxes from '19 and prior that I just haven't got around to dipping into yet

(I keep all my singles in a couple of smaller containers with 62% boveda packs so they are ready to go at all times.)

*I'm aware I have a problem, but I like some order in my life and as a father of 2 young boys the only way I can get any kind of order is with my cigars LOL

[Bigkahuna]

Somewhat similar experience to silverstix except I’m 3 decades or so ahead of you. I typically don’t touch the cabinets less than 10 years old. My issue is that I sometimes go heavy on things I find I don’t personally care for or worse yet go light on things long since discontinued. Although the entire industry has changed now and so am much less eager to continue to stock and plan on drawing harder on the reserves  

[Capn_Jackson]

I keep my entire stock at 65 rh. It is mostly Habanos. I’ve had some in there for 7 years, many for a few years, and some only a year or so. They all smoke exquisitely, for me, at that rh. There are many opposing opinions on the internet, but from what I gather, 65 is a good aging rh. My non-Cubans I also like at 65, a lot of Tatuaje and My Fathers. My Padrons, though, I actually keep in a separate humidor at 68 rh. Temp is 66-68 F for all.

[BoxPSI_ed]

5 hours ago, Silverstix said:

- 1 for long term storage ('20-'22 stock) that I won't touch for another 3-5 years

- 1 for boxes that are open and that I'm smoking from (mostly '19 and prior)

- 1 for overflow, which is mostly boxes from '19 and prior that I just haven't got around to dipping into yet

(I keep all my singles in a couple of smaller containers with 62% boveda packs so they are ready to go at all times.)

I love this and will look at doing the same!

[jakebarnes]

21 hours ago, Silverstix said:

Hah we all know that feeling all too well.

I have 3 large tupperdors for boxes, all with 65% boveda packs and I really never have to worry about RH in them:

- 1 for long term storage ('20-'22 stock) that I won't touch for another 3-5 years

- 1 for boxes that are open and that I'm smoking from (mostly '19 and prior)

- 1 for overflow, which is mostly boxes from '19 and prior that I just haven't got around to dipping into yet

(I keep all my singles in a couple of smaller containers with 62% boveda packs so they are ready to go at all times.)

*I'm aware I have a problem, but I like some order in my life and as a father of 2 young boys the only way I can get any kind of order is with my cigars LOL

I am basically using this sort of system with 2 coolidors albeit with less discipline.  I have one that is hidden with a lot of stuff from 2021-2022 that I want to let age. The other is for things I want to have now and/or the things I couldn't fit into the "aging" coolidor. Come to think of it...maybe I need an overflow coolidor...