List of Flavor profiles by brand /marca

[SpecialK]

I remember seeing a list here (or at least I thought I did) that showed all the tasting profiles associated with each marca.. been looking for it  does anyone know if this is around ?

 

Thanks

[Bijan]

In the reference section:

 

 

[SpecialK]

7 minutes ago, Bijan said:

In the reference section:

 

 

Thank you Sir

 

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Thank you Sir

 

Also useful is this strength chart:

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar/information#Cigar_Flavour_by_Brand

Every now and again I'd try a new Marca and be surprised and the chart was usually right.

 

[Tstew75]

2 hours ago, Bijan said:

Also useful is this strength chart:

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar/information#Cigar_Flavour_by_Brand

Every now and again I'd try a new Marca and be surprised and the chart was usually right.

 

Pretty good chart but a handful of marcas look out of place. All pretty subjective I guess!

[Bijan]

18 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

Pretty good chart but a handful of marcas look out of place. All pretty subjective I guess!

True very subjective. But it's usually the marcas at either end that are surprising the first time (Fonseca being so mild/light, and some of the full ones being so strong), and those are generally classified ok.

[Tstew75]

21 minutes ago, Bijan said:

True very subjective. But it's usually the marcas at either end that are surprising the first time (Fonseca being so mild/light, and some of the full ones being so strong), and those are generally classified ok.

Yea its the middle 3 columns that seem off to me lol

[JohnS]

Incidentally, my avatar adorns that link (above) but that's because I linked the topic to the ReFOHrence sub-forum. @CaptainQuintero, fully deserves the credit for that handy and informative topic. ?

[mprach024]

It’s not too far off really, splitting hairs and getting really picky on if you move some of those up or down one column.  Maybe a couple of question but it’s overall pretty close in strength ratings.

[xsquid]

Question about strength - I am fairly new to CC (well I smoked them years ago overseas) and I am not a fan of the nicotine strength kick.  I have only experienced it once and likely due to smoking a NC 56 RG Churchill with Nicaragua filler and binder.  So in my exploration of the strength range I inched up to Oliva, then Padron in Robusto and was fine (also like Illusione).  Now I know to avoid LP #9 and the niche sticks that have a reputation for huge kick (CroMagnon by Roma Craft), but I am thinking keeping the RG lower and only smoking Toro length will (and has) keep me out of trouble.  So If I can smoke Padrons will any CC "sneak" up on me and kick me?  I only smoke after a good meal always and that seems most important.  So would a Lusitania kick my butt?  A Bolivar Beli?  I have been told by seasoned CC smokers that if you can smoke a Padron, then you can smoke all the CC vitolas without an issue.

 

Feedback much appreciated.  Then again I will explore to see how far my tolerance envelope goes ?

[Meklown]

10 minutes ago, xsquid said:

I have been told by seasoned CC smokers that if you can smoke a Padron, then you can smoke all the CC vitolas without an issue.

This.

The only exception for me is when I smoke a very large cigar in a very hot and humid environment, or smoking wayyyy too fast

[CaptainQuintero]

52 minutes ago, xsquid said:

Question about strength - I am fairly new to CC (well I smoked them years ago overseas) and I am not a fan of the nicotine strength kick.  I have only experienced it once and likely due to smoking a NC 56 RG Churchill with Nicaragua filler and binder.  So in my exploration of the strength range I inched up to Oliva, then Padron in Robusto and was fine (also like Illusione).  Now I know to avoid LP #9 and the niche sticks that have a reputation for huge kick (CroMagnon by Roma Craft), but I am thinking keeping the RG lower and only smoking Toro length will (and has) keep me out of trouble.  So If I can smoke Padrons will any CC "sneak" up on me and kick me?  I only smoke after a good meal always and that seems most important.  So would a Lusitania kick my butt?  A Bolivar Beli?  I have been told by seasoned CC smokers that if you can smoke a Padron, then you can smoke all the CC vitolas without an issue.

 

Feedback much appreciated.  Then again I will explore to see how far my tolerance envelope goes ?

  Everyone is different but I'd say if you're happy with Padron then nothing Cuba makes should trouble you. Short of speed smoking, generally there's not a huge amount of strength in CC nowadays that will make you sick.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, CaptainQuintero said:

  Everyone is different but I'd say if you're happy with Padron then nothing Cuba makes should trouble you. Short of speed smoking, generally there's not a huge amount of strength in CC nowadays that will make you sick.

The Captain is absolutely right on, if you can handle Nicaraguan cigars then you really shouldn't have any trouble in terms of nicotine sickness, unless you pick out the strongest of the strong Cubans (R&J Cazadores comes to mind).

Regarding the strength of the different marcas, it's definitely true that it is very subjective but I think taking the average of everyone's opinion would give a pretty accurate indication. I've always thought it would be excellent to have some sort of website where people can easily rate the strength, flavor, body, etc of each different Cuban cigar and then that site take the cumulative stats and combine them to give a good description of each cigar.

[Bijan]

5 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I've always thought it would be excellent to have some sort of website where people can easily rate the strength, flavor, body, etc of each different Cuban cigar and then that site take the cumulative stats and combine them to give a good description of each cigar.

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/

Let's you do that. But not a lot of people use the review feature (which may or may not require mapping your collection there, I'm not sure).

Edit: I don't think they have the cumulative stats though.

[Vitola Corleone]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:37 AM, Bijan said:

Also useful is this strength chart:

https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/cigar/information#Cigar_Flavour_by_Brand

Every now and again I'd try a new Marca and be surprised and the chart was usually right.

 

Have to admit I am always a bit confused by Habanos's classification of "strength." It conflates 3 really different things:

- Body

- Flavor strength 

- Flavor clarity

To me, "body" is basically the nicotine content. IME habanos are generally not strong in this sense (full bodied) relative to NC's, and variation within cuban marca is as large as variation between marcas. Can even be significant between different sticks in the same vitola of one marca. I've had R&J churchills that almost made me hiccup, but most not.  

Flavor strength is just whether you are tasting a "strong" flavor. The red pepper of a Partagas is a "stronger" flavor to me than the cream of an HDM epicure 2 or the floral bouquet of a Fonseca #1. I guess this is meaningful variation but not that important to me.  

Flavor clarity is whether the flavors I'm tasting are clearly defined. This is more important but still not everything. A Lusitania is usually a well defined flavor to me (and very nice), whereas I recently smoked a Behike (1st time) and there wasn't really any clear flavor besides tobacco. Still, the Behike was spectacular and I couldn't say I enjoy a Lusi more. The flavor of a fonseca #1 is very well defined and pleasant but it's not a great cigar. 

All to say, I cannot easily dimensionalize my enjoyment of a cigar. Part of what makes them fun: trying to define that essence of greatness, but never really getting it. 

 

On the body of CC's vs. NC's, one of the great things about CC's to me is that the flavor/nicotine quotient is really high. No hate on NC's, I've smoked my share, but I think they try to compete by juicing the nick kick because they can't compete on flavor. Some of those smokes, like the CAO flatheads or LGC serie R (NC version), are like getting hit in the mouth with a sock full of pennies. It's like with wine, California pinots are super high alcohol these days compared to burgundy, but if they go with French alcohol levels they are often flimsy for some reason. 

 

Closer to the thread topic: I'm also mystified about how habanos manages to get clearly defined flavors in certain marcas. I know this has been controversial on this board, with some saying it's impossible considering they don't have specific farms supplying specific marcas -- that perception of flavor is mostly the smoker being led by their knowledge of what's on the label, rather than the taste itself.

I still just can't buy that, and to prove it, I will give long odds to anyone who supplies me with a large stock of R&J churchill vs. Esplendidos without bands that I could tell them apart 10 times out of 10. 

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, Vitola Corleone said:

Closer to the thread topic: I'm also mystified about how habanos manages to get clearly defined flavors in certain marcas. I know this has been controversial on this board, with some saying it's impossible considering they don't have specific farms supplying specific marcas -- that perception of flavor is mostly the smoker being led by their knowledge of what's on the label, rather than the taste itself.

I still just can't buy that, and to prove it, I will give long odds to anyone who supplies me with a large stock of R&J churchill vs. Esplendidos without bands that I could tell them apart 10 times out of 10. 

100% on this. I got a couple of LGC MDO4 from @JohnS. I had heard they were desirable but never read the flavour notes or a review. So I had no clue what they would be like. Smoked one and got tons of fruity flavours I never got before in a cigar. Looked it up and found that was the flavour profile for MDO4. This was one of the first things that convinced me that CC flavours are real.

Time and time again, when I experience something blind like this, it leaves the strongest impression on me.

[Tstew75]

12 hours ago, Vitola Corleone said:

Closer to the thread topic: I'm also mystified about how habanos manages to get clearly defined flavors in certain marcas. I know this has been controversial on this board, with some saying it's impossible considering they don't have specific farms supplying specific marcas -- that perception of flavor is mostly the smoker being led by their knowledge of what's on the label, rather than the taste itself.

I still just can't buy that, and to prove it, I will give long odds to anyone who supplies me with a large stock of R&J churchill vs. Esplendidos without bands that I could tell them apart 10 times out of 10. 

With cigars I think it's takes a lonnnnnnng time (smoking many many cigars) to be able to tell marcas apart blind. Prez's year end competition proves this...it's very difficult, even for very experienced smokers. Only the fullest bodied seem easy, Bolivar for instance. This is likely b/c the style spread in Habanos is very narrow.

I'd argue wine is a bit easier...but that may be from the sheer range of World styles (much more vast than the Habanos spread) to compare against.

[Bijan]

58 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

With cigars I think it's takes a lonnnnnnng time (smoking many many cigars) to be able to tell marcas apart blind. Prez's year end competition proves this...it's very difficult, even for very experienced smokers. Only the fullest bodied seem easy, Bolivar for instance. This is likely b/c the style spread in Habanos is very narrow.

I haven't gone too far in blind tastings. But I'd say that could be true of individual cigars due to inconsistencies between different cigars in the same box.

But again I'd be surprised if you couldn't tell blind an entire box of Esplendidos vs RyJ Churchills.

 

58 minutes ago, Tstew75 said:

I'd argue wine is a bit easier...but that may be from the sheer range of World styles (much more vast than the Habanos spread) to compare against.

Blind tastings in wine make me more sceptical of wine. But I am not at all knowledgeable about wine.

 

Also I'd say it's much easier to tell vitolas apart blind than marcas. There are such large blend differences at times between different vitolas in the same Marca that I could barely tell they are the same Marca non blind.

For me RASS and RASCC on the one hand vs RAG on the other are completely different though they are all Ramon Allones. RyJ Cazadores is another example.

Edit: Monte 2 vs Monte 4 as well for me.

[mprach024]

19 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Blind tastings in wine make me more sceptical of wine. But I am not at all knowledgeable about wine.

Wines tougher just because there are so many vineyards, sub appellations, appellations, regions, etc.  With CCs, there’s a finite amount of marcas.  Box inconsistency will make it trickier, but I can blindfold most of you, and if you were smoking the Monte 2 I’m smoking right now you’d know it was a Monte.  Some other marcas might be tougher. 

[PuroDan]

On 2/20/2021 at 11:43 AM, mprach024 said:

It’s not too far off really, splitting hairs and getting really picky on if you move some of those up or down one column.  Maybe a couple of question but it’s overall pretty close in strength ratings.

Thats a good opinion

 

Like others have posted "its all subjective"

[Thatsze]

13 hours ago, Vitola Corleone said:

I still just can't buy that, and to prove it, I will give long odds to anyone who supplies me with a large stock of R&J churchill vs. Esplendidos without bands that I could tell them apart 10 times out of 10. 

Honestly I'm pretty sure they can be told apart without even smoking them. I reckon the difference in leaf and roll quality would be enough.