How many standard catalogue CC's in 2019/2020 actually contain Ligero?

[99call]

I'm interested to see what the FOH community thinks. Post up your lists.       My list is:

Upmann Mag 46 -  Half Corona

JL 1 - JL 2

Bolivar Tubos no 3 - Bolivar Libertadors - BBF (maybe?? I'm not convinced)

Partagas 898  (hmmm Maybe back in 2009)   Not had a strong one in years

R&J Cazadores.   Yes, all day long.  One of the last cigars to make be go ashen faced. 

This is a very short list, ................what is HSA doing with the rest of their Ligero??

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

RASCC, yes.

HU Propios, yes.

A little in some of the smaller Partagas offerings.

Boli CJ & PC, a little. BRC & BBF, not sure.

VR Famosos, a little, maybe.

I never thought about it, but I suppose there really aren't that many that I'm sure of have any.

[JohnS]

For years a few members here have been advocating that more volado has been going into the larger ring gauge cigars than the more standard ring gauge cigars of the past. The tobacco plant image below shows that there is more volado leaf on a plant at the bottom than there is ligero at the top, but it doesn't explain the current disparity in my view.

[99call]

10 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

RASCC, yes.

HU Propios, yes.

A little in some of the smaller Partagas offerings.

Boli CJ & PC, a little. BRC & BBF, not sure.

VR Famosos, a little, maybe.

I never thought about it, but I suppose there really aren't that many that I'm sure of have any.

Surprised to see your Famosos pick,    but the rest of it I agree with 100%

I think it's really sad.    I would love to see CC's be everything they can be......that includes surprisingly strong, and full bodied cigars.     We are much poorer without them

[NSXCIGAR]

3 minutes ago, 99call said:

Surprised to see your Famosos pick,    but the rest of it I agree with 100%

For as many as I smoke, I'm actually not sure! The blend is very robust, and I always say it seems stronger than it is. Wouldn't surprise me if there was a 1/4 leaf of ligero in there but it might not. I can say confidently there's no ligero in the Unicos. 

[99call]

Just now, NSXCIGAR said:

I always say it seems stronger than it is.

I get exactly where you're coming from, but if it had to guess I would say it was body of flavour as opposed to nicotine ligero strength.

I would say it's pretty much the only cigar in the HSA line up that is deceptive in this nature.  Maybe Vegueros?

[Jimmy_jack]

I messed around and rolled my own sticks for a while( new world tobacco of course). Used all combinations of blends. One thing I was surprised about was how ligero can be Confusing. Sure it has strength, but also a lot of flavor. Using ligers does not always mean you need to smoke seated. I suspect we may be wrong on our conceptions.

[MrBirdman]

As for a large RG cigar the might contain ligero, how about Cohiba Medio Siglo? They’re quite strong (and flavorful) in my experience. Now I’m curious!

[nKostyan]

I think everyone can disassemble the cigar on the leaves and by the appearance and tactile sensations identify the ligero

[Tstew75]

The Cohiba Classic Range most certainly does...CoLa, Espy, CCE, CoRo, Piramides. BHK obvi does. Id toss in Medio Siglo as well, it seems to have more in common with the Classic Range than the Siglo.

 

[rascalmonkey]

On 2/7/2021 at 1:46 PM, 99call said:

... make me go ashen faced ...

could this be a new component of cigar reviews? ?

[Cigar Surgeon]

On 2/7/2021 at 3:12 PM, JohnS said:

Just a quick point of clarification: The middle part of the plant identified as Seco in this image should be Viso.

The very bottom leaves on this plant would be Volado, with the Seco being the second lowest row. Rows 2 and 3 would be Viso with row 2 being a high priming Viso.

Row 1 is Ligero, the leaf sticking out vertically (the very small one) would be medio tiempo. A fairly rare priming. 

This is a more accurate chart:

Even that chart is missing corona and medio tiempo. 

[Kaptain Karl]

Most of them do IMO. I just think the seeds, growing methods, etc have just toned down the strength, instead of HSA throwing away all of their ligero leaf. 

[Fuzz]

20 minutes ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

Just a quick point of clarification: The middle part of the plant identified as Seco in this image should be Viso.

The very bottom leaves on this plant would be Volado, with the Seco being the second lowest row. Rows 2 and 3 would be Viso with row 2 being a high priming Viso.

Row 1 is Ligero, the leaf sticking out vertically (the very small one) would be medio tiempo. A fairly rare priming. 

My understanding is that the term "viso" is only used outside of Cuba.

[MrBirdman]

1 hour ago, Fuzz said:

My understanding is that the term "viso" is only used outside of Cuba.

Indeed, I seem to recall hearing somewhere that viso was either invented or (more likely) popularized by Davidoff’s blenders after the move to the DR. 

[MrBirdman]

I wouldn’t be surprised if RA Superiores  has some ligero. 

[Tstew75]

1 hour ago, MrBirdman said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if RA Superiores  has some ligero. 

Agreed. Maybe why they're the best cigar in that range...

[nKostyan]

I just think the seeds, growing methods, etc have just toned down the strength, instead of HSA throwing away all of their ligero leaf. 

“In 1907, Cuban botanists bred a new variety of black Cuban tobacco (Tabaco Negro Cubano), replacing the hitherto existing variety Habanensis, which completely repeated the main characteristics of its predecessor, but was more resistant to diseases.

Around 1940, a new hybrid variety, Criollo, was developed for the filling and Corojo for the wrapper leaf. In 1992, a new variety, Habana 2000, was successfully tested. In 1998, Criollo 98 was introduced.

In 2006, the hybrid Habano 2006 (from Habana 2000 & Criollo 1998) was developed, which proved to be even more resistant to diseases and other adverse factors. Most of the 2006/07 crop was made from this variety of tobacco.

The peculiarity of this variety type is the presence of large leaves and the absence of flowers.”

Many experienced cigar smokers have noted a decline in the strength of Cuban cigars since 2005-2007. There may be several reasons for this:
- new tobacco hybrid;
- start of freezing of export cigars (protection from beetles)
- change of the blend to a more co-rated one for general consumption

However, Cuban tobacco growers claim that this is all purely subjective, the longer and more a person smokes, the more powerful cigars he wants.

[BrightonCorgi]

8 hours ago, nKostyan said:

Many experienced cigar smokers have noted a decline in the strength of Cuban cigars since 2005-2007. There may be several reasons for this:

- new tobacco hybrid;
- start of freezing of export cigars (protection from beetles)
- change of the blend to a more co-rated one for general consumption

However, Cuban tobacco growers claim that this is all purely subjective, the longer and more a person smokes, the more powerful cigars he wants.

This is totally true, and I would argue against the bottom, I do not long for a "more powerful cigar" and I know Habanos don't the power like they use to.  A Nicaraguan cigar puts me on my ass yet I can smoke Habanos for many hours straight.

Out of the three bullet points, new tobacco hybrid has to be the most likely along with the blend (which plays into the strains used) and new curing techniques that were not a bullet point, but should be mentioned.

[Cigar Surgeon]

14 hours ago, Fuzz said:

My understanding is that the term "viso" is only used outside of Cuba.

Thanks for that. I had no idea the classification system was different.